Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[teaboy2]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

@teaboy2

We understand about the stress that will come with it, but we simply won't be bullied into just accepting it by them. Their treatment is appalling.

Nowhere on the initial contract was it stated that it was a FTC, it said after 3 months review they would offer continuous employment if period was satisfactory, which it must be otherwise she wouldn't have stayed?

With regards to the letter terminating her employment, she was made to sign a contract on the 16th June, which ran from April 21st to July 21st - this is the contract they made her sign there and then and backdate to April so the management member didn't get in trouble with the owner and this is the one they made a temporary contract. Surely they cannot change from a contract that suggests continuous employment to a contract that is now temporary? And in any case, we will raise a grievance about that.

Read my last post again and comments i made regarding the contracts - Think you may have misunderstood as i have already answered what your question in your post above, prior to you asking them!

[RJH]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION]

We understand about the stress that will come with it, but we simply won't be bullied into just accepting it by them. Their treatment is appalling.

Nowhere on the initial contract was it stated that it was a FTC, it said after 3 months review they would offer continuous employment if period was satisfactory, which it must be otherwise she wouldn't have stayed?

With regards to the letter terminating her employment, she was made to sign a contract on the 16th June, which ran from April 21st to July 21st - this is the contract they made her sign there and then and backdate to April so the management member didn't get in trouble with the owner and this is the one they made a temporary contract. Surely they cannot change from a contract that suggests continuous employment to a contract that is now temporary? And in any case, we will raise a grievance about that.

[Confusedbyitall]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

The reason why they will have moved her out of the baby room was because of lifting in the baby room. I would raise a grievance informing them that the contract was forced on her, and was told to just sign it. Her first contract did not state it was temporary, and her review did not inform of this. I would ask under the freedom of information act for all notes they have on file of her. In relation to a reference loads of nurseries only supply a standard industry reference, which only includes name, how long they were employed and job title. This is quite normal now, so she would not have to worry about getting a standard industry reference.

[RJH]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[MENTION=65669]Confusedbyitall[/MENTION]

She does want to continue to fight it, it's not right the way she has been and is being treated and we don't want to let them get away with it just like that.

No risk assessment was ever carried out with her, and she was in a baby room and had a key child in this room too.

[teaboy2]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

Its not a matter as to if she was on permanent or fixed term contract - What matters is, the original contract did not state it was fixed term, and therefore was likely permanent contract as it gave no end date, other than they would review her employment at the end of her probationary period, in which case they may dismiss (though reason most be fair) her or extend the probationary period. They can not however change the contract to a fixed term one as that would be unfair dismissal at the end of the term of that contract, it would also be unfair dismissal to terminate the original contract it such a way. Also if she was on a fixed term contract then they wouldn't need to make her redundant in any case as they could just let the contract run its course. So they don't seem to have a clue what they are doing, and seem to be treating her as being on a permanent contract to which she would be entitled to redundancy!

I'm with what @matt3942 has stated earlier, but given shes pregnant i am concerned that it may not be beneficial for her to take it further as it will only cause her more stress, which is the last thing she needs whilst being pregnant.

[Nomoneynoproblem]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

Hi

I think it will be useful to have clarity on her employment status. From my perspective if it can be proven that she was on a permanent contract of employement then yes I do agree there is a case for sex discrimination. However, if it's proven that she was on a ftc from the very start I can't see how discrimination can be proven when at the very begining of the contract there was a start and finish date the fact that she got pregnant in between becomes irrelevant.

[Confusedbyitall]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

Just to pick up on the safeguarding query, it is mandatory by law under the Children's Act 1989 for any persons to be in contact with children without receiving adequate safeguard training, so the nursery is in breach of the welfare requirements. Your OH can contact Ofsted, who in turn will investigate why your OH has been allowed access to children, without safeguard training. Your OH can raise a grievance in relation to signing a new contract under pressure, but you need to think about this carefully too for her own well-being. She is pregnant and this will add more strain on her. Does your OH want to continue to fight it too?

It it would help in her case if she got in touch with the old manager? Is everyone else on a six month probationary period?

A risk assessment should be carried out under H & S when a employee informs them she is pregnant. They have already changed rooms, why did they do this? Was she in a baby room? The risk assessment must be carried out with the employee and should be done at each trimester.

[matt3942]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[MENTION=59438]RJH[/MENTION]

I'd be surprised if CAB aren't helpful but failing that ACAS may be able to advise you. There's no harm in contacting both.

It's certainly worth getting a statement from the lady you mentioned but I wouldn't attempt to do anything else until you've received proper legal advice as there are probably ways and means of collecting evidence.

- Matt

[RJH]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[MENTION=67649]matt3942[/MENTION]

Thank you so much for the info. I'm still going to send a letter to the ex-boss that employed her as some evidence is better than none.

Also, I will ring the CAB office here tomorrow and book an appointment, although if they aren't too helpful, would ACAS potentially advise if their were good grounds for going to tribunal?

I'm interested on your thoughts to do with them proving it was fair - there is a lady that helps out at the nursery when they are in need of cover or extra staff, and she has spoken to my OH this evening and said that she is turning work down there at the moment because there are too many hours they need help with and she can't manage them all, and she also said that the numbers always pick up and by Xmas it is packed again in the nursery - would any information from this person help?

[matt3942]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

Just to add - even without the contract issue, not renewing a temporary contract is still a dismissal as far as the law is concerned and it still has the potential to be unfair. The employer would still have to show that their reason for not renewing the contract was fair.

- Matt

[matt3942]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[MENTION=59438]RJH[/MENTION] - I'm inclined to agree in relation to the contract issue. The original contract doesn't state that it's temporary/fixed-term, and it doesn't say the contract will be reviewed/renewed on 21 April, only that the position is subject to a satisfactory 3-month probation period, which is common in permanent contracts. However, again, your OH did sign the new contract and continued to work under the new terms. This would probably go against them in an Employment Tribunal, which is why I said "you may have a claim".

Even though the employer has written what you claimed on your OH's review, this wasn't the reason given for redundancy, so I don't know how helpful it would be to have a copy of that review. Similarly, as regard to safeguarding training - this wasn't the reason given for redundancy, so even if the employer would get into trouble for not providing it, it wouldn't benefit you. Also, as the person who hired your OH is no longer employed there, I don't know how helpful a statement from them would be.

Again, proving automatic unfair dismissal can be difficult but if you bring a claim, the onus is on the employer to show that the redundancy was for a fair reason. Based on the reason the employer has given, the likelihood that your OH was the only person made redundant, and (from what you've said) there being no shortage of work available, IMO you would have a decent chance of winning.

Tomorrow, contact your local CAB office and make an appointment to meet with an employment law specialist. They will be able to advise you on whether you have the makings of a claim, and then take you through the process.

Please let us know what the outcome of this is.

- Matt

[Amethyst]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

Original Contract


New Contract

[RJH]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

Well she was going to work all the way up to pretty much when due.
Also, it was never ever on a temp contract basis and she has been pushed into signing that, pressurised by a management member without having time to examine the wording at all.

The job was offered and advertised as a Permanent contract, nothing was mentioned about temporary ever. She was in employment before moving here and no way would she have moved from a perm role to a temporary.

[Amethyst]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

So at work she gets £123 ?? ( 19 hours a week at min wage ) If she stops working (not saying she should but if she can't find something else) then she should get maternity allowance because she has worked since January.... go through the calculator ... https://www.gov.uk/pay-leave-for-parents/y Just in case she is considering maternity pay/leave, so knowing what benefits are available might help ease some of the stress.

Maybe she could suggest that she works on a casual basis for them if they are continually struggling for staff if she particularly wants to stay working there? Though sounds like they treat her like poo so far so looking elsewhere would be a good idea anyway.

I can't see that it is redundancy, they have just said about the downturn in numbers as a reason for not renewing the temp contract.

[RJH]

Re: Pregnant and made redundant - HELP

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]

The review states 'I explained to X that she will be put on ANOTHER 3 month contract as she needs to start looking at starting her qualification in September. Now the copy she received is the one I've posted but at work they've actually added to it in handwriting that she does not need the qualification and it isn't mandatory and this copy is in her file.

I query where it says another because the initial contract was for 3 months and then continuous employment on satisfactory period. If the 3 months hadn't been satisfactory she would no longer be there.

My OH has just spoken to someone who helps at the nursery as cover and she is told her that she is constantly being called to help out and it has got to the point now where she is having to decline because it's too much work. She also mentioned that it's unheard off to get rid of staff because of low numbers/hours because it always picks up again.

If this person and/or the original manager who hired my OH wrote a statement confirming these things would that help?