(Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

[sassy626]

Hi - this has not happened yet but I'm a worrier and can see the writing on the wall...

My job is as a client advisor and I have targets which among other things includes a chargeable work target ie that a 75% of my time is spent doing client advisory work (the remaining 25% is admin/training etc). Another target is that a certain percentage of my advisory work (say 75%) is actually billed to a client (lawyers will any any event know what I am talking about I'm sure and the conflicts that this can sometimes bring and the fact that one target is sometimes met at the expense of the other).

Anyway, I've just returned to work after a period of maternity leave. I work in a regional office, main office is in London. In the regional offices, including mine, almost no-one has been meeting their chargeable work targets. In my specific region no-one is meeting their chargeable work targets this year (by a significant margin), a situation which of course is simply made worse by my return from leave.

My employer has recently sent letters out to those who are not meeting their targets stating their disappointment, advising what should be done to improve matters and stating that this will affect the year end performance review meaning that people will be regarded as under-performing. Most of what they advise should be done will not actually result in any uplift on most people's chargeability because the real problem is that there is simply not enough work available at present. One of our bosses even made a media statement recently about the fact that there is 30% less work around this year compared to last year and yet our chargeable hours targets have increased by 10% compared to last year.

I am very concerned that my employer is seeking to turn what I consider to be a redundancy situation into a performance capability situation and force people out of their jobs. A year end grading of under-performing is bad enough in itself but under our procedures automatically leads to capability procedures ultimately resulting in dismissal.

How do I manage this effectively from the outset and what, if anything, can I do if the worse happens? Would such a dismissal be fair or could my employer be required to apply their normal redundancy payments/procedures?

Thanks for any advice - it was hard enough coming back and I now feel quite ill with stress.

[Eloise01]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Yep that is about it. Get on with what you need to do. The devil takes the hindmost - your job is to make sure that it isn't you!

[sassy626]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Well, being utterly cynical, that's two less employees for you to have to compete with if there are redundancies. But this is where the evidence thing comes in - can you obtain evidence that this was the sole reason for their resignation (which might be hard with the one who has a job to go to, because it obviously wasn't)? I know it sounds cruel, but in this you have to look out for number one, and if people are not willing or able to work collectively to challenge unreasonable demands made on them, then all you can do is collect what evidence you can. Do you have any means of showing that the unreasonable tragets caused their resignations - or can you get it?

One yes, one no. One is a direct peer albeit in a different location. The other is a specialist to whom I delegate/subcontract certain advice so if things pick up I no longer have that resource and I'm not qualified to do the job myself.

I have an email from the one colleague which states that she quit due to being bored, having had no work for several months and being sick of the constant hassle over the charge-in target. Second colleague is perhaps less likely to say anything in a useful form (staying within the industry).

Had an update call with my new line manager yesterday (my old line manager was transferred while I was on maternity leave). She was supposed to discuss the situation with various people over the course of the last week (leading up to this call) to request some support for (ie work allocation to) our region. She has not had time. I have put a further update call in her diary for next week to see what progress she has made. To be fair she is based in an office hundreds of miles away (my old line manager was more local) and I have never even met the woman so I am hardly going to be top of her priority list. MY targets still have not been set but I guess I can't hide behind that and should be being pro-active about kick starting the process (at least then I get to document my concerns and objections) whereas otherwise they will just kind of be there by default without me having taken/had an opportunity to properly set out my concerns.

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Oh he survived,,with his male ego in tatters,,he landed on the dancefloor right in front of my brother who glanced up,,saw me,,picked the fella up and said 'You've met your worst nightmare,,now meet her brother' and led him gently by the lughole out of the door lol......I've always had a great righthook,,my Dad did boxing in the army,he taught us well

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Inca is a paragon of virtue.......member of the 'never been banned' club.....I always leave first

(Oh,,I got barred from a nightclub back in the day for wallopping a fella who had wandering hands and he fell off the balcony!!)

LOL - that counts! Put it as your signature. Did he survive?

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Inca is a paragon of virtue.......member of the 'never been banned' club.....I always leave first

(Oh,,I got barred from a nightclub back in the day for wallopping a fella who had wandering hands and he fell off the balcony!!)

[Eloise01]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Well, being utterly cynical, that's two less employees for you to have to compete with if there are redundancies. But this is where the evidence thing comes in - can you obtain evidence that this was the sole reason for their resignation (which might be hard with the one who has a job to go to, because it obviously wasn't)? I know it sounds cruel, but in this you have to look out for number one, and if people are not willing or able to work collectively to challenge unreasonable demands made on them, then all you can do is collect what evidence you can. Do you have any means of showing that the unreasonable tragets caused their resignations - or can you get it?

[sassy626]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Two colleagues resigned yesterday (that I know of) - unable to coope with the "hassle" they are getting over targets. One has new job to go to one does not. Stressed!

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Can I be an honorary member as well, as I've been banned from two sites, each time more than once?

Well on that basis you can chalk up TWO badges

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

I know that I am often blunt and don't do tea and sympathy well.

Practice makes perfect - two sugars and a piece of fruitcake for me please! :behindsofa::behindsofa:

(preferably NOT tipped over my head lol!!!)

[Eloise01]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

.... and oddly calmed me too.

And actually that was really what I was trying to say, but I find that when I tell uncalm people to calm down, it has the opposite effect. I know that I am often blunt and don't do tea and sympathy well. A former colleague tells me recently that it is because her end of the profession is to win clients and repeat business; whereas mine is all about winning, and I don't really care whether my clients like me or not because I won't ever see them again. That isn't entirely true - my clients actually like me a lot (admittedly, winning helps that!) and I have oft times had problems getting rid of them because they do keep popping back for tea (so at least the tea is ok, even if the sympathy isn't!).... But rambling there, the point is that you are more likely to make a mistake if you try to plan ahead in employment law, because you plan for what you think of and not what you don't. I have a number of friends who do real jobs, and the motto they live by is one that I tell them all the time - "collect evidence". It isn't about whether something will happen - most of them have no employment problems (beyond the norm) and never will have. But if something comes up, then the evidence is there. It's collected. Maybe that's a cynical way of approaching it - but it is the way that good employers approach it. They are "collecting evidence" all the time, it just isn't called evidence at the time they are collecting it. That doesn't mean it won't be evidence next year! Employees are well-advised to take the same approach. If all you end up with at retirement is a box full of paper you can burn (and you may need it to keep warm if the government carry on cutting pensions!) then all well and good. But the biggest issue that people have is that when things go wrong they have no evidence!

[sassy626]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Ah, but that bit didn't take a crystal ball, just some information that I wasn't in posession of earlier! And I really do understand your concerns, I always have. It is just that other than the obvious "collect evidence", employment law is so perverse in its operation, even before you throw employers into the equation, that predictions are really hard to do, and past your employer could choose to make you redundant or they could begin capability proceedings, a bit hard tp say. They could also start looking for people posting on Facebook or other social media (fast becoming one of the fastest ways to get dismissed), knick the office stationary, or ring their husbands on the works telephone (or on their own phone in works time)! That's the problem with employers - they often ignore the obvious and go for the devious. I recall the infamous case, not one I was directly connected with, where a very large employer (a Council) sacked a Director for fraud on his mileage claim. The amount of the "fraudulent claim" - I believe it was £1.12. Or some such ridiculous sum - I am not out by more than 25p either way. Even more worrying - he lost his tribunal claim. Now I am pretty sure that the Council wanted him gone and were looking for a route to achieve it. But not even my crystal ball would have come up with that one!

So if your employer is looking to cut costs / employees, there is no "expected" route - and if your employers do what I think they do, they may be amongst the most likely to neither make people redundant or try capability processes (which take a long time actually). They are much more likley to do the unexpected.

Ha - I did actually check before posting this thread even that my employers really quite progressive internet usage and social media policies have not changed :-) You're quite right though - it would be the things I don't think about which catch me out! Thank you for the discussion - it has helped and oddly calmed me too.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Can I be an honorary member as well, as I've been banned from two sites, each time more than once?

I was also banned from *that* other site, also more than once! So double membership for me as well

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Oh it's getting less exclusive by the minute! It'll be bigger than the LibDem Party at this rate!

I think it already is!

[Eloise01]

Re: (Unfair) dismissal or redundancy?

Can I be an honorary member as well, as I've been banned from two sites, each time more than once?

Oh it's getting less exclusive by the minute! It'll be bigger than the LibDem Party at this rate!