Warning off for a caveat

[BlakSheep]

Is there a way to submit for a warning without the caveat reference number?

thank you

[atticus]

If that reference number is required, surely you can obtain it from the Probate Registry.

[BlakSheep]

Follow question to serving a warning. If the caveator puts in an appearance, do the courts permit the person who served the warning to make a supporting statement with any evidence if the infomation in the appearance is false? Thank you

[Pezza54]

Please read "Caveats, Warnings and Appearances Explained" at www.jmw.co.uk

Following an appearance by the caveator, the caveat is made permanent and the only way to remove it is by agreement or by court order

[BlakSheep]

Thanks Pezza54 i understand the concept of the caveat will convert to being locked and a court will be only route to removal. Is there a hierarchy to removal, which will be more or less costly; specifically if the reason for the caveat is considered to be weak with no legal basis, or is clear it is vexatious. Thank you.

[Pezza54]

The last 2 sentences of the 1st paragraph in the article "To caveat or to not caveat?" at www.druces.com state that the Probate Registry will review the contents of the appearance and if they agree, only then will the caveat be made permanent
If the legal advisers of the defendant estate are confident the claim has no merit and will fail, then most of their legal costs should be recoverable from the claimant

[BlakSheep]

Ah but the last three sentences of the final paragraph…

[Pezza54]

Yes making it easier to lodge a caveat online and being so inexpensive as well, was probably not a good idea as it has encouraged unhappy beneficiaries to halt the process of estate administration

[Pezza54]

I am also a bit surprised to see the firm writing this. If the Probate Register makes it more difficult and expensive thus reducing the amount of caveats and appearances, less work for the contentious probate solicitor

[BlakSheep]

Maybe the firm have had first hand experience of the registry not in their view the registry is not reviewing appearance statements? With more caveat’s lodged because it is cheap and easy; the consequence could be insufficient resources or personnel to provide a robust review?

[Pezza54]

5 or 6 years ago the court fee for lodging a caveat reduced from £20 to only £3 and has been £3 ever since
On that fee the Probate Registry can't afford to carry out any investigation on the caveat before filing it

[Hagalout]

I had a vexatious Caveat entered against my mothers estate, which as Executor I warned off via my Solicitor, the Caveator had no interest whatsoever in my mothers estate but he still entered an appearance, he also entered 3 other Caveats in different names one of which was his daughter, and she had no idea. He entered an appearance for the daughters caveat which was word for word the same as his own. Both were accepted without any investigation into them. Instead of going to court it was eventually settled on paper by the Probate Registrar in my favour which was never in doubt.It had cost me £22,000 in legal fees of which I was awarded costs up to a date two years previous which amounted to £11,800. This in effect gave the Caveator free regn to mess me about knowing full well I couldnt claim any further legal costs incurred chasing them. In the end I had to settle for £6000. The system is nothing short of a joke. It is scandalous that this is allowed happen.

[BlakSheep]

Hagalout it sounds like you were given the runaround and the system open to abuse. The speed with which a caveat can be entered doesn’t reflect the time it takes to unravel vexatious from reasonable blocking of an application. It sounds like you got through the process albeit poorer.

[Hagalout]

Yes eventually, but he took the proverbial **** big time. I have now sold the house but still not received my share. The house was owned as tenants in common by my mum and her partner, he is the partners grandson and now has a caveat in place to stop that probate, which is where it should have been in the first place. He wouldnt listen.

[BlakSheep]

A question for atticus et al, if I may? If a caveator enters an Appearance but does not serve a copy to the individual who issued the warning. Is it valid? Thank you.