*** WON *** VT - Damage charges... Startline

[PablosD]

Hi Paul,

Not much you could do unless you are prepared to take them to Court over it. If you choose to pay it then you will be deemed to admitted liability so I would advise against any payment unless there is guarantees in writing that they will remove all adverse entries from your file.

Should you wish to go down the legal route, you may wish to have a conversation with pt2537 (Paul Tilley) who may be able to assist you and come to a fee arrangement to take on your case. Perhaps if this is one of Paul's first cases around this, maybe he could do you good deal as a test case for his firm?!

If Paul is unable to do it or you can't come to an arrangement then you might have to go it alone and I will help you wherever possible but ultimately its your case and you would have to take it all the way. As it is Money Barn, I'm not sure whether they would fold at any time and you may have to take it to the wire for them to concede or settle but you won't know that until you kickstart things.

Hello R0b

Sorry I'm a bit confused. Have our wires been crossed? Unfortunately it's getting quite confusing in here. But I'm not dealing with Money Barn. My biggest question was, can they put me as a late payment on my credit file if I've VTd and they've had the car back? I know they're claiming damages, but isn't that separate to the finance agreement on my file? Or am I mistaken? I thought, once it was VTd, that the agreement on the file ended and anything afterwards was separate.

I've called Startline and they said they've transferred the debt over to Link Financial (already!) so I need to speak to them. I called Link and they said its a Startline debt so I need to speak to them. So I called Startline again and they said its all been handed over to Link Financial so its definitely them! I pointed out that my issue is with my Startline damage charges and if Link have been told to get £190 off me by Startline then surely I need Startline to tell them NOT to get £190 off me.

I asked if they've received my letter that I sent special delivery (the one you helped me with) disputing the charges and she said they have.... BUT.... Link Financial are dealing with it now so it's up to them.... How can it be up to them?? They didn't sell even the car! And does that mean my letter doesn't matter anymore? Are they literally chucking my letter in the bin because they've passed the buck?

I'm ever so confused now. But I still believe that if they sold the car for over a grand above CAP then there's NO WAY it's not in reasonable condition!

So, to summarise with a yes/no question.... In your expert opinion, can they mark me down as "late payment" on my car finance entry on my credit report, over damage charges, even if I always paid on time up until the moment I literally gave the car back, last month?

Thank you ever so much.

Ps.... Everyone single Startline person I spoke to said that it WOULDN'T affect my credit rating because they'd had the car back.... AND... I haven't even had any correspondence ASKING for £190. I had the initial £1519 one, but one lady said I shouldn't have had that because the car wasn't sold and it's £190. But I've had NOTHING in writing!

Regards,

Paul.

[pt2537]

Link Financial? Oh lord, this will be fun, i had link on the otherside on Harrison v Link, it didnt end too well for them

[PablosD]

Good afternoon..... I hope you are all well.

The latest update is bizarre! On the 19th of October Startline told me they'd basically washed their hands of me and declared me the problem of Link Financial....

Then a letter arrived this week (but dated the 19th October) from Link saying I owe them £190, because that's what Startline sent then. This is literally the FIRST letter I've had actually asking for £190!! (Even though they've already marked me as a late payment on my terminated car finance record!)

Now today I've received a letter dated the 23rd of October, from Startline again, saying they've received my letter (the one on here) but that they have not upheld my complaint. I have attached a copy of their letter explaining why. They say that they do accept there is a certain amount of wear and tear so they will reduce it from £1519 to £478! But they've already reduced it to £190. This is so confusing! I'm waiting for a call back from Link. I just thought I'd update here for any advice and also for anyone reading this in the future when it's resolved.


Surely, if they've reduced my amount of owing by over a grand because it sold so well, but then decide that I only owe £478 damages in the first place, I shouldn't owe anything?



I hate this. I feel for everyone else going through this.

Once again, if anyone has any advice I would be grateful, but I guess I can wait for them to phone up later (if they do) and see what they have to say. I'm still sure they can't mark me as late payment when the agreement was terminated. But no one on here seems to be confirming that.

Regards, Paul.

[R0b]

I wouldn't be too hung up on the amounts being claimed. It seems pretty apparent that Startline are just dishing out charges and then reducing them in an arbitrary manner. What you need to understand is whether or not Link Financial have actually purchased the debt or if they are acting on behalf of Startline.

Remind me, have you issued a formal complaint and received their final decision - if so, have you made a formal complaint to the Financial Ombudsman?

[PablosD]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly R0b and, in reply to your first question, I'm not sure. I have attached a copy of their letter. I get the impression that they've just been instructed to get the money, but I don't really know. It's all very confusing. On the phone I was told by Startline that I can ONLY deal with Link now because I've been passed on..... Somebody did call me from Link yesterday, after my post, and told me they didn't have a copy of Startline's letter, didn't know anything about any £478 amount, didn't know anything about my credit file being affected and asking if she could call me back again in a few days.



For the second question, again, I don't really know. I sent them the letter quoting Lord Denning and denying any charges, pointing out that they sold the car for considerably more, it was in better than reasonable condition, etc etc, that was put together with your help (or maybe pretty much mainly by you!)... but I don't know if that is considered a formal complaint. But in their letter that I posted yesterday, the second sheet (which I have attached today) tells me that if I am unhappy with their decision I can contact the FOS, so it sounds pretty final.



Not sure if any of that helps.


Does that mean next would be the time to contact the Ombudsman? I guess I should wait for the lady to get back to me and see if she is willing to pay ball first but, if that doesn't work, shall I just call them up?

Thank you again.

Kind regards,

Paul.

[Hurt2017]

R0b


Hi,

I posted few days ago however i havent had much luck in replies and im Really hoping for some advice.

My situation seems extremly similar to that of PABLOSD, startline have passed my so called 'debt' for damages of my VT car to link financial. I must stress after the car was collected on 28th aug i havent heard anything from startline, i havent ever recieved a condition report or anything until a debt letter from link financial came claiming i owe £490. I had to call link to find out what the money was for. STARTLINE wont deal with my query as my account is closed. I requested the damage report and photos from link and they came today but the greyscale stamp sized pics do not show anything as the quality is so poor.

Please can anyone advise my next steps.... Can i complain to startline that they havent followed correct procedures? Should i sent a complaint to startline or link?

The car is 9 years old 87000miles and was in very good if not excellent condition. I dont agree with paying £490 for damage that is not beyond fair wear and tear.


Thank you everyone

[malimner]

possibly doesnt help but when I called link by mistake (wanting startline) the lady told me they share the same office & building - she said she could see them from her desk... dodgy or what

[PablosD]

Just another quick update.... Not sure where they are on my claim to NOT owe them any damage money (as she said she'd call back in a few days...... Two weeks ago!!) but, regarding my shouting at them that they can't put me as "late payment" if I've VTd because I've already terminated that agreement so there's nothing to pay late, I checked my credit file today and.....

Drum roll....

THE LATE PAYMENT IS GONE!!!

AND..... they've marked the car finance account "closed". That's such a relief! Now, regardless of how the fight over the unfair damage charges goes, at least it will not be stuck on my file for the next 6 years. My credit score just shot up!!

Mini victory!!!

A mini victory I wouldn't have known to even fight for if it wasn't for the amazing people on this forum. Thanks again!

I'll let you know how it turns out with my damage claims. Take care everyone.

Paul.

[R0b]

Hi Paul,

Apologies I've not picked this up recently, it seems like you've been doing a lot of the work on your own and has paid off - well done.

All I would say is that for added protection and evidence purposes, download a copy of your credit report which shows there being no adverse markers on there and that it is closed. I would also check that nothing has changed over the next 3-6 months just in case they try something funny.

I must say its unusual for them to remove the adverse entries and most finance companies call your bluff presuming you won't take any action. Whatever the reason, its been removed and thats all that matters.

[PablosD]

No need to apologise, R0b

Your help has been invaluable! And I wouldn't have got this far without you.

I do hope you could take a moment for a small bit of extra advice.

Is there some kind of deadline I can put on them getting in touch with me? I spoke to Link on the 25th October when she claimed she didn't know anything about the new £478 figure or the mark on my credit file. She asked for me to produce evidence of both and I did. Since then the mark has gone from my credit file but I'm still waiting on an answer about the charges.

My two points are now...

1. I don't owe money because I'm disputing that the condition of the car was unreasonable, especially considering they made extra money on its sale and that I looked after it. Also considering there is no evidence any of the damage was caused by me or that the damage is beyond reasonable.

2. Even if they don't agree with me there is also the fact that they reduced the original estimate by £1300, from £1519 to £190, because it sold so well, therefore, if the original charge should have only been £478, £478 - £1300 equals I owe them nothing!

Anyway... Recap over....

So she said wait a couple of days for my emails to get through to her..... On the 25th October.

I called 8th November... They said its a different department and they'll put me through... No one was available... Then said they'd arrange a call back.

9th November. Put through. No one available. Said they'd call back.

11th November. Put through. No one available. Said they'd call back "ASAP".

13th November I ACTUAL GOT A CALL!.... It was an automated service telling me to ring them. I rang them. Got put through. No one was available. The person I spoke to said they'd mark the callback as urgent.

14th November (today). Put through. No one. Put through again. No one again. Told they'd call me back

I wish there was some way, legally speaking, I could say, "I have waited patiently for 3 weeks now. If I don't hear from you in 10 days then this issue will be considered closed and settled."

Is this an option at all? Or not really?

Thank you again. I hope you are well.

Paul.

[PablosD]

As if by magic, I post this and they call up within half an hour.

I wonder if they're reading this. Then at least they'll know I'll NEVER BACK DOWN!

Have a wonderful day everyone.

Paul.

[PablosD]

Oh... And Link said she's waiting for Startline head office to get back to her to explain why, after they've been instructed to get £190 from me, Startline are writing to me, asking for £478, without even telling them.

So organised.

[R0b]

Remind me, did you log a formal complaint to Startline? Their customer service is very poor and I think the FCA needs to look into their practices which, quite frankly, are shocking as well as other lenders too.

It probably wouldn't surprise me if they are monitoring these forums, a lot of other companies do as well. If you've submitted a complaint then you need to wait the 8 weeks for a final decision but either way Link should not be engaging with you at all until that complaint has concluded which may mean after a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman and a decision has been made.

Anyway, I'm in the process of setting up a draft complaint template to send to the FCA's enforcement team regarding some of the practices used by finance companies. The FCA doesn't investigate individual complaints but may look at a particular authorised firm if there are sufficient complaints to warrant an investigation.

The below template is tailored towards collection fees (another practice of Startline though not in your case) but I think except for the background section and the first sentence or two in the oppressive and aggressive behaviour paragraph, which you will need to adapt, the rest of it seems to apply to your situation. You may also want to add further comments and in particular the issues surrounding promised calls but never happening.

Feel free to send it off if you wish.

If you need any feedback prior to sending it off, post up a draft for comment - their FCA number is 741747.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Attn. Enforcement Team
Financial Conduct Authority
12 Endeavour Square
London
E20 1JN

15 November 2018

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: [NAME OF FIRM] (Authorisation No. [NUMBER])

I am writing with reference to the above-mentioned firm who is authorised by the Financial Conduct Authority (“FCA”) to carry out certain regulated activities. The purpose of this letter is to express my concerns about [FIRM’s] aggressive and oppressive behaviour with regards to a regulated consumer credit agreement which has since terminated. Whilst I appreciate that the FCA does not take on individual complaints, it is, however, tasked with supervising firms to ensure compliance with the relevant rules and regulations and more specifically, the fair treatment of consumers. I would hope that you at least consider the contents of this letter as it raises several issues about my experience of [FIRMS’s] failure to comply with its respective obligations as an authorised firm.

Background
On [DATE] I entered into a hire-purchase agreement with [FIRM] for a period of [NUMBER] years for the supply of a [description of vehicle, make and model]. The agreement was subject to, and regulated by, the Consumer Credit Act 1974. After [NUMBER] months and having paid [NUMBER] instalments, I exercised my voluntary termination right in accordance with Section 99 of the CCA 1974. (this provision allows me to terminate the agreement at any time by giving written notice). Upon exercising that right properly, my liability under the agreement becomes limited to one half of the total price payable (Section 100 of the CCA 1974).

Since giving notice of the termination, [FIRM] has repeatedly refused to process the termination. They have persistently demanded that I am required to sign their documentation (which, amongst other things, says that I agree to be liable for excess mileage charges and any damage that is recorded) otherwise the termination won’t be processed by them. [They have also insisted that if I don’t sign it, then the agreement will continue, and I will be liable to continue paying the monthly instalments until it is signed. If I don’t do continue the payments, then [FIRM] will report a default on my credit file.]

[FIRM’s] aggressive and oppressive behaviour
By refusing to collect its own vehicle, demanding that I sign their documentation and further threats of reporting adverse information on my credit file is, this, in my opinion, is nothing short of aggressive commercial practices contrary to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Furthermore, these practices are also contrary to the principles of Treating Customers Fairly (“TCF”) and other several FCA Handbook Rules including:

·Paying due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly (Principle 6, PRIN2.1).

·Further to the above point, Outcome 6 of the TCF Principles insofar as ensuring customers do not face unreasonable post-sale barriers imposed by firms to change product, switch provider, submit a claim or make a complaint.

·Not ignoring or disregarding a customer’s claim that a debt has been settled or is disputed and must not continue to make demands for payment without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer's claim is not valid (CONC 7.5.3).

·Suspending any steps that it takes or its agent takes in the recovery of a debt from a customer where the customer disputes the debt on valid grounds or what may be valid grounds (CONC 7.14.1).

In my view, [FIRM] is in breach of some, if not all, of the above rules and in particular, Outcome 6 of the TCF principles. [FIRM] should not be making it unnecessarily difficult for me to exercise a statutory right by putting up barriers in the hope that it either to delays matters or that I will eventually submit to their demands or even both. Consumers such as myself ought to be able to exercise their statutory right without fear of being threatened with unlawful demands before a firm will agree to process the termination.

In this case, it is not clear whether this is simply a training issue or if it is a policy of the business. However, whilst I am only able to speculate, my research suggests that it may in fact be the latter. An online search of some of the well-known consumer forums indicate that I am not just an isolated case, and it appears to be happening across the board to other customers of [FIRM] (as well as other authorised firms) and indeed, some consumers have actually bowed to the pressures and signed [FIRM’s] or similar documentation.

I am sure you will agree with me that what I have described above is not the sort of practices expected by any authorised firm and the conduct of [FIRM] falls well short of the standards expected of them. To support these allegations, I enclose evidence in the form of [emails, recorded calls, letters etc.].

I would like to thank you for taking the time to read this letter and would appreciate if you could acknowledge receipt. It would also be of help to me if you are able to confirm the FCA’s position and whether it intends to look into the allegations I have raised. If not, perhaps you could agree to retaining my letter on file in case similar issues are raised against [FIRM] which might therefore assist in any future investigation by the FCA.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]

[PablosD]

I WON!!

I rang them up to see what was going on and the lady at Link told me that they were acting on behalf of Startline and would get a final answer on my complaints.... Then she came back and said they've discussed it and they're not moving on the £190!

She asked what I intended to do next.....

I told her the first and most important thing she needs to know is I will NOT...... EVER..... be paying ANY money! I said the only way they'd get a penny from me is in court! I then pointed out that if it didn't go away I would be informing both the FOS and the FCA of their conduct. Particularly how they started with lies and pressure to get me to sign documents that they insisted were necessary even though, legally, they weren't... How, in the beginning, they didn't actually issue me with any official demand for any monies and it was only because I kept checking that I was updated..... That they made considerably more on my car than expected but still somehow deemed it unreasonable..... How the car was found for sale for almost double the cap price proving it was better than reasonable.... How they bombarded me with an unnecessary amount of letters demanding payments despite the fact that my agreement had ended, causing stress..... How they marked me as a late payment in my credit file even though the credit agreement in question didn't exist anymore, as it was terminated, and I'd been told on nearly a dozen different occasions that it would NOT be affected.... How, even if they disagree with ALL of that, deducting the extra amount they made on selling the car (£1300) from their new revised damage costs (£478) actually came out negative so, even if they still consider me liable, all costs were covered and I shouldn't owe them anything.....

I ended by saying that at the end of the day I know it's only £190 but I will fight it all the way and if they didn't come back with the response I want and expect I would involve a solicitor and the aforementioned bodies......


They came back saying they're closing my account! Yay!!

So I went from £1519 to £190 to £478 to £190 again and to £0! And I couldn't have done it without this amazing forum! Particularly R0b who seems to dedicate an incredible amount of time helping others. And that's why I've returned to tell you, in case someone else is going through the same thing and this helps or at least gives a bit of confidence.... (although every case is different and in no way does this constitute advice of any kind! )

Thank you everyone. What you do is incredible!!

Paul..



(It was marked "Settled")

[Amethyst]

Well done ... crazy you had to go through all this - just goes to show how they try it on and hope people don't have the knowledge or energy to keep battling.

R0b congrats xx