Civil Enforcement Ltd County Court Business Centre Claim

[charitynjw]

& it is not an easy matter for Authorities to displace a byelaw.

See this. (Revoking a byelaw)

[charitynjw]

I have, over the past couple of years, fought with various authorities re 'relevant land/bye law' issues.
All of them were very reluctant to admit the fact. (Maybe because it opened the door to the possibility that, if it became public knowledge, they would be up a *certain creek* .........without a paddle?)

[charitynjw]

Thank you for these docs, I've just been reading through them.

Does this mean they are not allowed to allowed to issue PCNs at all? What bye law specifically stops them from doing this? I have been reading the documents but can't find a specific bye law they are breaking/ breaching. I'm still researching so I can put together a strong case.

Chapter & verse!

SCHEDULE 4

Recovery of unpaid parking charges

Introductory

1(1)This Schedule applies where—

(a)the driver of a vehicle is required by virtue of a relevant obligation to pay parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on relevant land; and......

3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—

(a)a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);

(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;

(c)any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

(2)In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—

“parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;

“traffic authority” means each of the following—
(a)

the Secretary of State;
(b)

the Welsh Ministers;
(c)

Transport for London;
(d)

the Common Council of the City of London;
(e)

the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;
(f)

a parish or community council;
(g)

the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

(3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph

(1)(c) the parking of a vehicle on land is “subject to statutory control” if any statutory provision imposes a liability (whether criminal or civil, and whether in the form of a fee or charge or a penalty of any kind) in respect of the parking on that land of vehicles generally or of vehicles of a description that includes the vehicle in question.

(4) In sub-paragraph (3) “statutory provision” means any provision (apart from this Schedule) contained in—

(a)any Act (including a local or private Act), whenever passed; or

(b)any subordinate legislation, whenever made,

and for this purpose “subordinate legislation” means an Order in Council or any order, regulations, byelaws or other legislative instrument.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

[Lyat]

& this

Thank you for these docs, I've just been reading through them.

Does this mean they are not allowed to allowed to issue PCNs at all? What bye law specifically stops them from doing this? I have been reading the documents but can't find a specific bye law they are breaking/ breaching. I'm still researching so I can put together a strong case.

[charitynjw]

& this

[charitynjw]

This would suggest that it is railway land,

[Lyat]

Railway premises (inc lands within their boundary) & simlarly airports, harbours & most highways are governed via bye laws.
If so, they are not 'relevant land' for the purposes of private parking charges; contraventions are subject to penalty charges & are not heard in county courts,
The problem is that it is very difficult to obtain evidence of same....the authorities (railway companies, haarbour commissions etc)..... are very reluctant to admit the fact.
But, just as private parking co's cannot (or should not) issue PCNs on the highway, neither should they on 'bye law' land.
What railway stn is it?

It's Crawley station although they have aptly called the carpark "Overline House" which is the old building of mainly empty offices that is right next to the station over the railway line, hence Overline House.

The green arrow is pointing to the train stations own car park (where I normally park) and the 2 orange ones are pointing to the private car parks (the second arrow down is the one I parked at)

[charitynjw]

So what should I do next? What is /are the bylaws you are referencing? Shall I write my defence and then maybe attach it for you to look at? I would like to see what evidence etc they have or actually basing their argument or claim on.

Railway premises (inc lands within their boundary) & simlarly airports, harbours & most highways are governed via bye laws.
If so, they are not 'relevant land' for the purposes of private parking charges; contraventions are subject to penalty charges & are not heard in county courts,
The problem is that it is very difficult to obtain evidence of same....the authorities (railway companies, harbour commissions etc)..... are very reluctant to admit the fact.
But, just as private parking co's cannot (or should not) issue PCNs on the highway, neither should they on 'bye law' land.
What railway stn is it?

[Lyat]

So what should I do next? What is /are the bylaws you are referencing? Shall I write my defence and then maybe attach it for you to look at? I would like to see what evidence etc they have or actually basing their argument or claim on.

[ostell]

Probably is byelaws etc.

[Lyat]

Do you still have the original (1st) postal notice to keeper?
If so, could you post up a pic? (front & rear, redact personal info but leave all times/dates visible.)

ostell
Poss bye laws?

I don't have the first or original one. I started keeping correspondence once I realised they hadn't just made a mistake and actually intended to harrass me. Should I request them?

[Lyat]

I have a screenshot photos of the call I made to them, of the app not working, the email I sent them the same day and 2 tweets to the app company from the next day detailing what happened. Would this suffice?

The payment didn't go through as their app simply wasn't working.

[charitynjw]

Do you still have the original (1st) postal notice to keeper?
If so, could you post up a pic? (front & rear, redact personal info but leave all times/dates visible.)

ostell
Poss bye laws?

[ostell]

You acknowledge on line using the details and password on the form. This gives you 33 days from the date of issue to get your defence to the court.

Yes, the failure was purely down to the failure of their equipment and you should not be held responsible for that. Did a payment eventually go through? Have you kept a copy of your call log to show that you attempted to make payments?

[Lyat]

This is the particulars of claim and pictures of the signs. The terms and conditions are not clear at all in my opinion as they just say "You" not driver or reg keeper etc and says in one place that you pay within 10 minutes and in another 28 days to pay- which is it? As you'll recall from the above the company actually said they do not take back payments so are they in breach of their own terms and conditions? Also, there is no contract I have entered into that states anything about a late or alternative £20 parking charge contract I have entered or agreed to.

I read someplace that I need to request the information they intend to use or something and any correspondence they sent to me? How do I do this? Is it just a bog standard letter or do I send them a cir/sar (sorry if I've got those acronyms wrong )

Please do help as I am finding it difficult to sleep!

Thanks guys x