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Refund denial letter

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  • #16
    I am surprised that you were unaware the vehicle had been written off as Cat S, as that should be noted on the V5

    None the less, based on the information you have given, I would suggest a defence along the lines of:

    This is a Statement of Case by the Defendant ******** which lays the foundation for the Court to STRIKE OUT the claim under CPR 3 prior to any court appearance.

    It is denied that ******* is the correct defendant.
    *****was acting solely as the agent of [daughter's name] (the owner of the vehicle)
    This was made clear to the claimant at the time of his/her purchase

    At all times this was a private sale between two individuals so the provisions of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 do not apply.
    It is averred the vehicle was not misrepresented, being described solely as "mot Feb 2023, recent service, low mileage."


    • #17
      Just niggling point. would the fact that he was advised and has stated that he was acting as an agent for his daughter, changed his contractual basis and the need for full disclosure.

      How was the car purchased in the first place private or from a dealer. If from a dealer, they would have been appraised of the fact that it was Cat: S. Also I would have though your daughters insurance company informed her that it was a Cat: S vehicle as it is considered a higher risk and carries high than usual premiums. Also if not declared, in the event of a claim the insurance company would not pay, due to non disclosure.

      Unless purchased from a private buyer, he would be a aware that it was Cat: S and therefore liable to disclose. Also if the claimant has deep pockets they can trace the cars provenance..

      So if you were aware that it had been in an accident, as a new V5 had to be issued after repairs were undertaken, meaning there is traceability. I would accept you made a mistake and refund as Small Claims actions can get costly.

      "It is against the law for a car dealership to hide the classification of a vehicle as a Category S from prospective buyers. Be sure to read through your prospective vehicle’s paperwork with a fine-tooth comb. If you are suspicious about the history of a vehicle, don’t be afraid to conduct a full HPI check with a vehicle information firm.

      An HPI check won’t be necessary if your car dealer operates under the umbrella of the car manufacturer’s approved used car scheme. These provisional checks will have been undertaken on your behalf to protect you and the dealership.

      If you choose to buy a vehicle from a private seller, it is a considerably greyer area. Although private sellers are equally required to be honest, they may be totally unaware their vehicle used to be a Cat S write-off". This last statement is hard to sustain, as details are entered in the new V5 and therefore the new owner would have the information.


      • #18
        What if PLAINJANE91 knows nothing about cars or what Cat5 means.

        It is the buyer's responsibility to check not just the condition of the car but the paperwork as well. This is a lot more important for a private sale.

        Provided the updated logbook and latest MOT were available for the buyer to view then I believe there is a strong defence against the claim.


        • #19
          If the claim is defended I believe you should obtain from your daughter a letter of authorisation to sell the car. We Buy Any Car require this.


          • #20
            Originally posted by Plainjane91 View Post
            There was no mention at any point that the car was cat s due to structural damage.
            On the grounds that the good did not match their description under the sale of goods act 1979 goods you supply must match their description. As the goods did not match how they were described I am requesting a full refund plus damages.


            The buyer does not appear to understand the law.

            Firstly, The sections of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 relevant here have been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

            Secondly, The 2015 Act states clearly that, as far as the sale of goods is concerned, it only applies to traders. Section 3 (1) of it says "This Chapter applies to a contract for a trader to supply goods to a consumer." [my bold] The Act defines a trader: " 'Trader' means a person acting for purposes relating to that person's trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader's name or on the trader's behalf."

            You are not a trader you are a private seller so the sections of the Act dealing with 'Goods to be as described' [s11], 'Goods to be fit for a particular purpose [s10], and 'Goods to be of satisfactory quality' [s9] do not apply to you.

            Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

            You have probably replied to the buyer by now but if not I would simply write "I will not be giving a refund because I am not a trader. It was a private sale and so the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 relating to the description of goods do not apply to this sale."

            And leave it at that. Ball back in their court.

            Please keep the thread updated on how you getting on.
            Last edited by PallasAthena; 29th May 2023, 14:22:PM.
            All opinions expressed are based on my personal experience. I am not a lawyer and do not hold any legal qualifications.


            • #21
              Having read Howard Tilney's (legal advisor at lawgistics.co.uk) article "Is it legal to sell a Cat N or Cat S car?" I am now not so sure when I said I thought there was a strong defence.

              Mr Tilney states that declaring a car's Cat S status is essential when selling a car and that the new owner could sue the seller for damages in the absence of a suitable declaration. He does not differentiate between a private and dealership sale.

              A possible route to avoid court action could be to determine the value of the car sold (with Cat S) using internet sites, Autotrader, We Buy Any Car, and compare this to the actual sold price of the car. If the valuation obtained from the internet site is less than the sold price you could make an offer of the difference in an attempt to settle the claim.


              • #22
                If you sell it as agent, you are not very clearly selling privately.


                • #23
                  Selling your daughter's car for her makes you technically her agent in law but it doesn't make you a trader. If the daughter would have been a private seller if she'd sold it herself (which I assume is the case) then her mother selling it for her doesn't turn her mother into a trader. Unless her mother is actually running a buisness selling cars on behalf of other people. Which I don't think is the case here.
                  All opinions expressed are based on my personal experience. I am not a lawyer and do not hold any legal qualifications.


                  • #24
                    I have just read that it is the person who makes the misrepresentation or does not disclose the material fact is liable to pay damages.


                    • #25
                      how can one help without knowing contents = cross out personal stuff?


                      • #26
                        So they are claiming Breach of Contract by misrepresentation. You know it would be extremely helpful to all and sundry who are trying to assist you. If you could take the time to redact the court claim form and upload to here. Alternatively, at the very least, type exactly word for word what the claimant has entered on the form, "basically what they are saying" is not exact enough to assist you to draft a defence (if you have one).


                        • #27

                          Think you are wasting your time
                          OP hasn't been on since 13th May!


                          • #28
                            Cheers Des8 Probably realise he did not have a leg to stand on.


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