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PARKINGeye wrong address at county court claim stage

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  • #91
    Thank you for letting me know. It was just that one photo she pinned up I was asking about. The questions in the previous post I was putting to yourself CharityNJW-you have been so helpful so far. If its possible for you to answer any of them it would be very helpful to me. Thanks.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Happygoodman View Post
      Thank you for letting me know. It was just that one photo she pinned up I was asking about. The questions in the previous post I was putting to yourself CharityNJW-you have been so helpful so far. If its possible for you to answer any of them it would be very helpful to me. Thanks.
      Hi
      Obviously I can't say for certain, but I'd guess that it was in reference to the sign being turned away from sight.
      CAVEAT LECTOR

      This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
      Cohen, Herb


      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
      gets his brain a-going.
      Phelps, C. C.


      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
      The last words of John Sedgwick

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Happygoodman View Post
        Hi! Have posted Amethyst thank you.
        I have received a Notice of Transfer of Proceedings from the court.
        I have quite a few questions:

        What is the usual time after this until I go to court?
        Fairly soon, but it will depend on the workload of that particular court.
        You will be notified, & usually directed to swap documentation, do WS etc.

        Because of their vague Claim, I now don't need one of the witnesses (who is a child): can I withdraw them?
        Just give as much notice as poss.
        I'd also copy in the other party.

        Can you make your defence 'case' again (kind of) through the witness report-as the witness was the driver and could be clearer?
        You're not really supposed to alter your stated defence, but things can be 'massaged' in.
        Also, when we entered the car park, there was a sign to the right but this was easily missed as the turning was quite sharp and in a tunnel. There is nothing warning us that there was a camera in the tunnel (is this illegal not to warn about camera?) Also, were not sure this was part of pub that we thought we driving into. See pic below. What do you think of this picture?

        My apologies for so many questions!

        21 Automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)
        General principles
        21.1 You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.
        https://www.britishparking.co.uk/wri...CE_CURRENT.pdf
        CAVEAT LECTOR

        This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
        Cohen, Herb


        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
        gets his brain a-going.
        Phelps, C. C.


        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
        The last words of John Sedgwick

        Comment


        • #94
          Thank you so much. I like the idea of massaging it in. Will go away and read up: Cargius case; Code of Conduct; Beavis (just in case they try to use it). And then I'll be back to bother you once again with my conclusions. I think it would be good to write down exactly what happened and explore all avenues they might use. I have never been to court before and bottled a bit during mitigation but I'm determined not to be intimidated.

          Comment


          • #95
            I have nearly finished the witness statement. It does take time. Quick question: how do you go about finding out the landowner? The manager of the pub said PE were but I got the feeling they didn't know.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Happygoodman View Post
              I have nearly finished the witness statement. It does take time.
              Yep!
              Quick question: how do you go about finding out the landowner? The manager of the pub said PE were but I got the feeling they didn't know.
              Always difficult. (Very rarely would it be the parking co.....usually they have a contract with the landowner/managing agent.)
              You could try Land Registry, & Local Authority commercial rates dept.
              ####
              CAVEAT LECTOR

              This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
              Cohen, Herb


              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
              gets his brain a-going.
              Phelps, C. C.


              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
              The last words of John Sedgwick

              Comment


              • #97
                Hi! Blimey, I hope this is right or at least along the right lines! I'm taking it that EXHIBIT are the photos!

                Witness Statement
                IN THE ************* COUNTY COURT
                Claim No. ***********

                BETWEEN:
                Claimant
                Parking Eye

                AND
                Defendant
                ****************

                _________________________________

                WITNESS STATEMENT OF **************
                _________________________________



                I xxxxxx being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;

                I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim.
                1. On the xxxxxxxxxxx I received a County Court Claim from Parking Eye asking for monies for parking ‘without a valid parking ticket,’ and that I was’ in breach of the terms and conditions (the contract).’ The claim stated that ParkingEye had an ‘automated number plate recognition system’ and that ‘the signage’ was ‘clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park.’ There was no clear indication of reason of claim other than I parked ‘without a valid parking ticket’.
                2. Firstly, I was the passenger not the driver. And secondly, the signage was not ‘clearly displayed.’ I was not aware that there was ANPR and a contract to accept. Neither was I aware from the start that I had entered a private carpark.
                3. To add, I was unable to appeal as I had moved to another area in xxxxxxxxx and the driver moved in xxxxxxxx leaving an empty house. The County Court Claim letter was received on xxxxxx after the house was sold.
                4. On xxxxxxxxx, during a long journey with my family, I saw the xxxxxxxxxxx pub on the outskirts of xxxxxxxxx and decided to stop by. The pub had clear sign on its side stating that there was a carpark with an arrow pointing with no mention of a private carpark. (EXHIBIT A)
                5. The entrance to the ‘pub carpark’ appeared to the left as you drove down and was through a dark tunnel. This required a sharp manoeuvre pulling the driver’s focus to the back of the carpark. The signage, which was a blur of different signs and contradictory information, was not within the driver’s or the passenger’s view point. (EXHIBIT B) There was no transparency of ANPR or what it was used for or that we were entering a private carpark owned by a company.
                6. The tunnel was too dark to see any signs and there were no signs ahead as you exited the tunnel, drove forwards, around and parked. (EXHIBIT C)
                7. The car was parked facing the pub. No signage or a ticket machine could be seen facing the pub (EXHIBIT D)
                8. There was a sign close by on a wall to our left. The top of the sign was hanging down and the bottom was peeling away each side. The dilapidated sign was not legible or transparent to such a degree I believed that the ‘pub carpark’ perhaps used to be a private carpark but wasn’t anymore. (EXHIBIT D)
                9. On reaching the pub entrance, the driver spotted a sign which had been facing the wrong way as he drove in and as it was facing sideways (with the pub and carpark on each side) so you couldn’t see it from the carpark. The sign said ‘waiting is strictly limited to 5 minutes –tariffs apply thereafter. Failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in a Parking Charge of: £100.’ (EXHIBIT E)
                10. Due to the signage being seemingly ‘hidden’ and thus not clearly displayed the driver was left unclear as to its meaning for two reasons: 1. that the car park signage was not plain and transparent from the start and that this must be a carpark that was not in good working order. Was it a functioning carpark? 2. The sign asking for 5 mins was an unfair and ridiculous demand as it had taken him well over 5 minutes to enter, park and discover the sign. There was no adequate notice of the terms. Was it a functioning carpark?
                11. Facing the wrong way and attached to the sign was the pay machine. This also faced sideways to the pub and the carpark which meant that it couldn’t be seen from the parked car. Also, on entering, it blended with the black beams of the pub. (EXHIBIT F)
                12. The driver, after searching for change, eventually paid £8 for four hours still unclear of what kind of carpark he was in. There was no information on the ticket machine other than a tariff and no signage left or right of his vision. The driver was in a hurry also, concerned about the ridiculous 5 min demand and confused too as he thought he had entered a pub carpark as stated on the side of the pub.
                13. I returned with my family in good time and spent some time rearranging the car.
                14. During mitigation, and not stated on the Claim form -which if it had it would have guided my defence for the better- I was told by the Claimant that from their APNR I was 47 mins over: 12 mins too late paying and 35 mins returning. I did not accept the claimants reduced offer of £125 because due to the dilapidated, contradictory and concealed signage, I was unaware of any contract, was not aware that the carpark was using APNR and therefore considered the carpark to be not in good working order. Indeed, the nature in which the signs and the pay machine were all facing in different directions and the wrong way round in relation to the natural direction and viewpoint of the customer (entering, parking, paying) was not a carpark acting in good faith but a trap.

                Statement of Truth

                I, **************, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.


                Signed: ________________________________

                Dated: ________________________________





                Comment


                • #98
                  Hi! Blimey, I hope this is right or at least along the right lines! I'm taking it that EXHIBIT are the photos!
                  Exhibits can be anything to which you make reference in, & attach to, the WS. (So, photos, letters, plans etc etc.)

                  Indeed, the nature in which the signs and the pay machine were all facing in different directions and the wrong way round in relation to the natural direction and viewpoint of the customer (entering, parking, paying) was not a carpark acting in good faith but a trap.
                  I would add something like

                  I would respectfully direct the court to Section 64 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding transparency & prominence.
                  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/64/enacted
                  & attach a copy of s64 to the WS.
                  Last edited by charitynjw; 16th May 2019, 08:49:AM.
                  CAVEAT LECTOR

                  This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                  You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                  Cohen, Herb


                  There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                  gets his brain a-going.
                  Phelps, C. C.


                  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                  The last words of John Sedgwick

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Hi Charity NJW, have received PE defence which seems unfair as they are bouncing off my weak defence from their vague claim. One thing they bark on about is: 'as we have had no correspondence whatsoever from the defendant, we have had no choice but to enter legal proceedings, and have incurred further costs in pursuing this matter'
                    the issue is the poor signage and contract. Should I worry about this. I had moved house but hadnt got round to sorting dvla though changed license.

                    also, with the dark tunnel they say:
                    'Pe confirm that there is sufficient ambient lighting from lightposts in the carpark. The vehicle had its headlights on. This would of rendered the signs on the carpark, of which there are many, visible'
                    this is nonsense. The headlights did not light up the dark tunnel or anything, it was the middle of the day and you could not see the signs plus the drivers focus is ahead.
                    also, they say they are not the landowner. Im going to ring the pub again as I think they are.
                    Anyway, what you think?

                    Comment


                    • Imho, it is not the responsibility of the driver/motorist to supply illumination.
                      Also, vehicle headlights are not designed for the purpose of illuminating signs, especially relatively small ones (ie compare size with, say, motorway signs.)
                      How do they know there is sufficient ambient light?
                      Have they used a lux meter?
                      http://www.acmasindia.com/blog/lux-meter/
                      If not, it's pure speculation on their part.
                      CAVEAT LECTOR

                      This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                      Cohen, Herb


                      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                      gets his brain a-going.
                      Phelps, C. C.


                      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                      The last words of John Sedgwick

                      Comment


                      • Hi Charity NJW, have received a letter from CC which i'm not sure is promising or the usual letter they send or they becoming switched on. Thought i'd share it with you.

                        It reads: unless by xxxxx on xxxxxx, the claimant files and serves an amended particulars of claim setting out the contract terms relied upon and particularising the alleged breach, then the claim is struck out.

                        so they acknowledge the claim is unclear i'm taking it.


                        ​​

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Happygoodman View Post
                          Hi Charity NJW, have received a letter from CC which i'm not sure is promising or the usual letter they send or they becoming switched on. Thought i'd share it with you.

                          It reads: unless by xxxxx on xxxxxx, the claimant files and serves an amended particulars of claim setting out the contract terms relied upon and particularising the alleged breach, then the claim is struck out.

                          so they acknowledge the claim is unclear i'm taking it.


                          ​​
                          Yep
                          & if the parking co doesn't file a more detailed Particulars, then their claim will be struck out.
                          (At which point you may wish to submit a costs schedule.)
                          What deadline has been given for the amended PoC?
                          CAVEAT LECTOR

                          This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                          You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                          Cohen, Herb


                          There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                          gets his brain a-going.
                          Phelps, C. C.


                          "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                          The last words of John Sedgwick

                          Comment


                          • 4th June

                            Comment


                            • Ok, so wait & see if they respond on time.
                              CAVEAT LECTOR

                              This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                              Cohen, Herb


                              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                              gets his brain a-going.
                              Phelps, C. C.


                              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                              The last words of John Sedgwick

                              Comment


                              • They've come through with amendment stating that the clear signage gave cost and hours of stay and that we exceeded this either side by 47 mins (no mention of grace period). Now I can get defence in order! If only!
                                One question: obviously the signage was very poor but can't they argue that because we paid for a ticket we must have understood the terms. My argument back is that the terms were still not clear neither was it clear we were in a fully functioning carpark or who's carpark it was but we paid it to be on the safe side and in.hurry due to 5 min rule. So we kind of eventually knew we were in.a carpark but the terms were not clear all.the same. IYHO, will that stand?

                                Comment

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