Child custody dispute

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

@Openlaw15

Although totally wrong to do at this stage, because the point of these is so the parents work with the agencys so things can be checked out, i think it would be an application to vary the order rather than appeal.

The point of the state is to control the individual and to limit his or her rights. The parents don't work with the agencies, the agencies work for the court (ie the state), and the parents - unless they're legally savvy - have to do what they're told by the state. But what lawyers know is 'checks and balances' which the state authorities have to follow, ie legal procedure otherwise it's undue process (ie not a fair hearing). I do not look at the state authorities, ie CAFCASS/ Social Workers like you seem to do, as in 'they're nice people.' Excuse me but that is a very bourgeois perspective to have with regards to the state. If you studied law, perhaps you'd be more critical of the state, of state powers, just like legal professionals should be.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

@Openlaw15



You dont seem to understand the basics about these orders, the process the parent goes through between the temporary order, and finalising, , and how to deal with them properly. ,

Although the position seems bad from the posters current point, it not an uncommon position. And the SS Cafcass and courts, would have had to look 1000s of cases just the same, just to make sure it was iether a blip ( we all learn once with kids ) or hitting her is part of somethibg else ( sounds very straight from this poster, i supose most parents can recall a time they have been very mad with there kids. )
@daseybrewik

I know someone thats just been through very similar curcus, have the SS offered any parenting meetings/classes or any solutions, Push them to make sure they are helping your situation with your daughter.

I studied a law degree, not legal procedure. However I am slowly researching the procedure bit by bit. I am not talking about law, am talking about procedure under the Family Procedure Rules. I don't think you understand family law procedure. The fact that you have anecdotal experience of social workers and these types of orders does not make you an authority on them either. I have however been researching relevant family law and family law procedure for these types of issues that Daisy is in, am now aware of the process.

[Crazy council]

Re: Child custody dispute

[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION]

On the contrary, Daisy - if she had any objection to the summary hearing raising up the topic of 'domestic abuse' was supposed to have a full hearing otherwise the court assumes it's not necessary, ie it's decided from the professionals' reports/ statements. It may be abuse of process therefore, meaning she can appeal on a point of law.

You dont seem to understand the basics about these orders, the process the parent goes through between the temporary order, and finalising, , and how to deal with them properly. ,

Although the position seems bad from the posters current point, it not an uncommon position. And the SS Cafcass and courts, would have had to look 1000s of cases just the same, just to make sure it was iether a blip ( we all learn once with kids ) or hitting her is part of somethibg else ( sounds very straight from this poster, i supose most parents can recall a time they have been very mad with there kids. )
[MENTION=9784]das[/MENTION]eybrewik

I know someone thats just been through very similar curcus, have the SS offered any parenting meetings/classes or any solutions, Push them to make sure they are helping your situation with your daughter.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

@Openlaw15

Although totally wrong to do at this stage, because the point of these is so the parents work with the agencys so things can be checked out, i think it would be an application to vary the order rather than appeal.

On the contrary, Daisy - if she had any objection to the summary hearing raising up the topic of 'domestic abuse' was supposed to have a full hearing otherwise the court assumes it's not necessary, ie it's decided from the professionals' reports/ statements. It may be abuse of process therefore, meaning she can appeal on a point of law.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

@Openlaw15

Although totally wrong to do at this stage, because the point of these is so the parents work with the agencys so things can be checked out, i think it would be an application to vary the order rather than appeal.

As daisy's situation likely applies to 'domestic abuse' - it's not likely Daisy could apply for a variation or to amend the contact order. Daisy when was the domestic abuse issue heard (ie what date) and what was the judge's statement on this? Daisy, do you remember "First Hearing Dispute Resolution Appointment FHDRA", then did you go on to have a full case hearing (ie Fact Find Hearing) for the 'domestic abuse?' Are there any temporary (interim) orders in place?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

@Openlaw15

Although totally wrong to do at this stage, because the point of these is so the parents work with the agencys so things can be checked out, i think it would be an application to vary the order rather than appeal.

Yes, it would be an application to vary an existing order initially, ie once it's made but if the judge refused to vary/ amend, then Daisy still could appeal. It sounds like she has not received any adequate support that she needs to navigate her way around the murky waters of the family court legal system.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I know that. I've been reading her posts

I can also see that she believes the Order only says her daughter should reside with her father until the end of the school holidays. What happens after that was my question.

Unless an emergency application is made it's unlikely an appeal would be heard before the end of the school holidays depending on what date the next school term starts.

Di

Ok, so the Child Arrangement Program is currently being dealt with. The social worker is therefore only providing an opinion: ie section 37 report. It still doesn't explain why Daisy hasn't had legal representation throughout.

[Crazy council]

Re: Child custody dispute

[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION]

Although totally wrong to do at this stage, because the point of these is so the parents work with the agencys so things can be checked out, i think it would be an application to vary the order rather than appeal.

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

Does the father have the main custody of her throughout the year, is this what you're saying. You're just not being clear. Who is your daughter going to live with mainly is my question.

As I understand it (from Daisy's post # 17) that question will be answered after the Judge has spoken to her daughter at the end of the school holidays.

Di

[Crazy council]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi @Daisyberwick

Hi, i have been through some of what you're going through back in 2009

Firstly, there no point and its the wrong stage to appeal any order, at the moment, it will be a temporary order whilst things get sorted out. Its sort of a risk free option for all involved, because its the summer holidays and wont affect her schooling. At them mo, your better following along with teh social workers/caffcass.

Some advice from a parent, whos been there, and was caught out by the situation for a while

Your daughter ( i have three, 14yo, 22 and 23 )

At twelve to 16, be very carfull that shes not telling one parent one thing, and the other, something totally different, Its just her basic lack of understanding of gravity of the situation. Its like trying to swim upstream with your arms tied behind your back when your batteling an emotional teen.......... the most important advice at this stage, is whatever happens, even if she goes to her dads for a bit,,,this will be over soon, she will grow up, and how everyone acts around her atm, could affect her more than the argument. Try make sure nothings said in anger that will take time to get over, ( by this i mean, sometime people pick sides in these situations, this situation can get sorted out, but familys keep on two side of the argument for longer )

Dealing with all other agencies

Social workers.

These are good, but be carfull, ( this is why you need a solicitor ). Its not there bad in any way, its just there to scared of making mistakes, My mistake, was regional language, the term Belt you, round here meens smak, not belt, but because i said it once, it was recorded that i had FREELY ADMITTED BELTING HER, and once they have something written down, they stick by it until you fight to turn it over. Be carfull, thing about what your going to say, and can that be misconsrude to mean something else.

Caffcass,

my dealing with these may be different to other, i found them compassionate, understanding, and seemingly trying to help from day one...... Cafcass realised and admitted there mistakes straight away, SS workers never.

I will add to this later today.

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

Di, Daisy is saying she has had the Child Contact Order judgement, and she wants to appeal it. She says that she hasn't had a legal representative throughout, besides, I think she's saying, there are still applications for legal aid.

I know that. I've been reading her posts

I can also see that she believes the Order only says her daughter should reside with her father until the end of the school holidays. What happens after that was my question.

Unless an emergency application is made it's unlikely an appeal would be heard before the end of the school holidays depending on what date the next school term starts.

Di

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

I'm not being represented at all. The letter is just confirming that I suffered emotional abuse during and since my marriage. A solicitor has had this letter along with a care plan and some other details of my mental illness which they have said is 'low mood'. The arrangement order was made on the 28th July for my daughter to reside with her dad in Kent for the rest of the summer holidays, but to spend 11 days with me from the 12th. CAFCASS have visited my daughter at her dads to see how she's getting on and have confirmed to me that she is extremely unhappy. She is due back to me for 11 days on Fruday and I don't want her to have to go back. Is there anything I can do to stop her going back? Can I appeal?

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry 9 days 12th -21st

Daisy, according to 28 July 2016's Child Arrangement Order/ judgement, what type of contact/ custody do you have with your daughter. Is it supervised contact/ visitation? Does the father have the main custody of her throughout the year, is this what you're saying. You're just not being clear. Who is your daughter going to live with mainly is my question.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Does the Order say where your daughter will reside at the end of the summer holidays?

She'll be home in a couple of days

Why not ring the solicitor again. Maybe the delay is because they're applying for Legal Aid for you but haven't had a response yet. Did they say they would make an application on your behalf? Were you asked to provide the firm with your financial details?

Di

Di, Daisy is saying she has had the Child Contact Order judgement, and she wants to appeal it. She says that she hasn't had a legal representative throughout, besides, I think she's saying, there are still applications for legal aid. It seems she may have been denied access to justice.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Child custody dispute

Hi. I've since heard that appeals are costly and I am on benefits. I have taken screen shots of the arrangement order, but don't know how to attach them here.

Daisy, you should have had a solicitor helping you with a Child Arrangement Order. Appeals are only going to be successful if there is a strong chance of winning. You haven't left much time now for a solicitor. It was hard to tell at what stage you were in the process or what type of family law situation it was. It was hard to tell if it was a care order or Child Arrangement Order so it was difficult direct or give you guidance. Had we have known what type of assistance you need we could have helped you more. I didn't know for example that you lost your case of Child Arrangement Order, or the judgement wasn't pleasing to you. It was rather a complex issue. I don't even know whether a solicitor would take this on now, as they will only do appeal if they're likely to be successful.

[Diana M]

Re: Child custody dispute

I'm not being represented at all. The letter is just confirming that I suffered emotional abuse during and since my marriage. A solicitor has had this letter along with a care plan and some other details of my mental illness which they have said is 'low mood'. The arrangement order was made on the 28th July for my daughter to reside with her dad in Kent for the rest of the summer holidays, but to spend 11 days with me from the 12th. CAFCASS have visited my daughter at her dads to see how she's getting on and have confirmed to me that she is extremely unhappy. She is due back to me for 11 days on Fruday and I don't want her to have to go back. Is there anything I can do to stop her going back? Can I appeal?

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry 9 days 12th -21st

Does the Order say where your daughter will reside at the end of the summer holidays?

She'll be home in a couple of days

Why not ring the solicitor again. Maybe the delay is because they're applying for Legal Aid for you but haven't had a response yet. Did they say they would make an application on your behalf? Were you asked to provide the firm with your financial details?

Di