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Cabot claim a CCJ in place - Call their bluff?

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  • Grinfish
    started a topic Cabot claim a CCJ in place - Call their bluff?

    Cabot claim a CCJ in place - Call their bluff?

    New here, but after a curious development I thought it best to seek advice ASAP. Some back-story first just to help you see how I got to where I am now, and why I'm seeking your assistance.

    In the mid 2000s I ran up a significant amount of unsecured debt - partly whilst married, but more when that fell apart, leading me to go somewhat "off the rails" and essentially become addicted to gambling.

    After about a year there was simply nothing left - job gone, credit all maxed. Out of ideas and on the verge of a breakdown, I basically ran away from it all. I stayed with my parents for approximately a year during which I found work, somewhere to live (through a friend, so no credit checks) and started to rebuild a Zero-Credit Life with just a basic bank account and cash, pre-payment or utility card-based payment systems for all my regular outgoings. Neither a Borrower Nor a Lender Be. I stuck to that religiously until late summer 2020, knowing that by then (in my mind, at least) I should even be safe from any potential shortfall on the mortgage at my long-escaped former home. I was on the Closed Register of the Electoral Roll and that was my only probably "footprint" with the credit reference agencies, which I avoided any access to. I've also never gambled since!

    Briefly in 2008/9 contact-attempt letters arrived at my parents' home, and they did also receive the occasional phone enquiry, all of which they fended off. These stopped after a while, and after moving into my new rented place, barely a sniff or snuffle of the debthounds at all.

    So, all good, then after what I saw as the Watershed after 12 years, I decided I could start living a slightly more normal and convenient life. I started paying some of the bills (council tax, water) by direct debit, and applied for a broadband service. All went through without issue. I also decided to brave the credit reference system again, to find Transunion, Experian and Equifax all rated me Good or better, with no faults or searches from the previous 6 years.

    Shortly after, the letters started to arrive. Some of them even said "You're not legally obliged to pay this, but if you would like to...". They've caused me no issue whatsoever, although I should get around to sending them SBs to close them down and save them some wasted postage.

    However, Cabot have been a bit different.They've sent a few letters inviting me to contact them to arrange a payment plan, then hit me yesterday with this:



    "XXXX XXXX your account will be placed with our solicitors

    A County Court Judgment (CCJ) has been obtained on this account, which we have enforced with a Charging Order. We attempted in the past to speak to you, but you have failed to get in contact to repay.

    In order for us to manage your account appropriately we are returning your account to our solicitors Mortimer Clarke Solicitors. This will allow our solicitors to agree with you an appropriate payment arrangement to repay the outstanding balance, and once paid in full remove the Charging Order.

    Mortimer Clarke Solicitors will be in contact with you in the next 14 days to review your situation and arrange the most suitable solution for you based on your circumstances.

    Yours sincerely

    XXX XXXX
    UK Litigation Director"



    I immediately paid for registry searches against my name on my current and previous addresses, so no active CCJ accurately attached in the last 6 years. I also note they have given NO details of the court, the case number or date of the alleged CCJ. I have had No Contact and made No Payment(s) with Cabot or any other creditor or debt collector at any time, or received any court papers. The item in question is an unsecured loan, probably taken out mid/late 2007, last payment made routinely circa Feb/March 2008 with an original value just under 20k, almost all outstanding.

    So, the bit(s) I need advice with:

    DO I assume there is an old CCJ prior to the last 6 years against the debt as they claim? If so, I assume I will have to attempt a Set Aside?
    COULD THEY be bluffing to get me to contact them? If so, what action to take?
    SHOULD I send them a Statute Bar letter as a first point of order before anything else arrives?
    OR SHOULD I risk waiting until contacted re: the alleged CCJ and Charging Order?

    I'm at your mercy, and appreciate any guidance. They picked a great time of year, huh?

    Thanks in advance

    Grin

    p.s. I did try to attach a photo of the letter text, but for some reason it wouldn't permit it.
    Tags: None

  • MIKE770
    replied
    Never mind ah!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    So, that was a wee bit of a wait.

    After responding to them simply with a verbatim quote from CPR and a polite suggestion to save time and expense by not corresponding further (as I wouldn't be), then duly posting it a day after their response date (which worked nicely in-synch with a bank holiday weekend!) I've received the below from Morty which is actually printed on regular stock paper but could possibly be mistaken for a white linen flag. Being unable to investigate due to the age and nature of the account sounds much like a civilised way of saying "we can't backup our bull***".

    I guess I'll still have to see what cunning ruse Cabot aka Marlin V come up with next, but this chapter of the story has a satisfactory conclusion. If their own solicitors can't break through due to lack of information about an account they're trying to claim against, it sounds like they'd struggle to get a court to give them the green light to enforce.

    A small donation is long overdue, so consider it done - and if Cabot quietly back down in the nearish future, expect another one to follow

    Thanks for the support on the adventure so far, it's been a very educational experience too!

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    Originally posted by des8 View Post
    ... or you could refer them to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram
    Don't tempt me. I may keep that in reserve for their next letter

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied
    ... or you could refer them to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    The pesky bug (sadly I mean Covid, not Morty) has passed, so now I'm back up to speed with things here are the redactful scans I promised. It does read a bit like "We believe, and We want You to believe too". I may give them a Parliamentary response, and refer them to the statement made some letter(s) ago.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied
    Sorry to hear you're infectious trust you will soon recover

    The clue in the amount of power they wield is " before they refer back to client".

    That means they have failed to collect and they are going to have to admit toi their client that they have failed.... and they are the experts!

    You either continue to ignore or reiterate that you are aware a CCJ cannot be enforced after the lapse of 6 years without the permission of the court, so would they kindly stop bothering you and wasting their own time and money as you have no intention of playing letter tennis.

    Regarding assignment, the creditor only has to supply the debtor of a notice of assignment.(here's a thread on that very topic: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...gnment-of-debt )

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    Been doing some reading on "Beat the Bailiff" type pages. They wax on about asking for the Deed of Assignment to be presented, as opposed to the Notice of Assignment. Does this have any mileage worth the effort?

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    UPDATE

    New letter from MC received this weekend. I'll be more full about it soon but Covid's decided to pay a visit so I'll give crib notes:

    Apparently they have "investigated my dispute" - I never raised one, I simply didn't acknowledge their claim whilst providing them with the info in my previous letter (earlier in this thread).

    They've sent copies of some docs - CCA, Notice of Assignment (we bought the debt, so now you talk to us) and a statement of account (original balance with no charges as they legally can't apply any unless they get the Court to back them up).

    They mention the CCJ a few times, saying this means they don't need to give me any other documentation. We believe you're liable, etc. 21 days to supply in/ex financials before they refer back to client.

    This is either another trap to get me to acknowledge, or ammunition for a WoE request at court.

    I'm tempted to blind-side their waffle (or state that a dispute has not been raised as there was no actual acknowledgement of a claim) and just repeat CPR at them. Also wondering if I should start listing costs for writing them any further letters.

    I'll supply some redactful scans when I'm not focused on the 'rona, in case there are any hair-splitting legal language pitfalls I need to avoid. They did suggest I could seek independent legal advice - I'm assuming that's out of an obligation to be seen acting in Fairness, rather than them actually wanting me to lawyer up.

    In the meantime, health and wellbeing first but I thought I'd leave you some bones to chew on whilst I deal with this infectious beastie.

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied
    No news is good news (at least that's what my gran used to say)

    I would sit tight and do nothing.
    You've told them to wake up and smell the coffee, they know you're not going to roll over.
    Ball is in their court ... leave it there

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    Update(ish):

    I've heard nothing back, some 2-3 weeks on.

    Thoughts:

    i) they've backed off, but aren't going to say so
    ii) they simply haven't got around to moving onto their next action or are creating dramatic tension
    iii) they have lodged a request for permission to execute the CCJ, and are waiting for the result.


    Proactive/reactive thoughts in response (though not tied respectively) to i/ii/iii:

    a) Do nothing, just let whatever happens (or not) happen (or not)
    b) Poke the Bear and ask them what they're doing, or not doing
    c) Expect the Spanish Inquisition, empty savings account into my socks etc.

    Perhaps they're just waiting for the new tax year....

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied
    No, what's writ is fine...I was overthinking (or not thinking at all!)

    Leave a comment:


  • Grinfish
    replied
    Originally posted by des8 View Post
    Correct - only communicate in writing (emails or snail mail)

    Ignore their time limits if it suits you.. they are meaningless. They will ignore yours.
    i have over the years had numerous communications from solicitors with time limits to respond, and as a matter of course I do not reply until the day after expiry.

    The only time to put in a meaningful time limit is if it is on the lines of "no response within 14 days and I will initiate court proceedings without further reference to yourself.

    Did you send that letter as post 47? if not include the contents now
    No I didn't, hence why I mentioned my dithering and my proposed wording. If you think there is anything more I need to tack in, now would be a good time as I intend to fire off tomorrow by email (Saturday via Snail on the one day I can properly)

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied
    Correct - only communicate in writing (emails or snail mail)

    Ignore their time limits if it suits you.. they are meaningless. They will ignore yours.
    i have over the years had numerous communications from solicitors with time limits to respond, and as a matter of course I do not reply until the day after expiry.

    The only time to put in a meaningful time limit is if it is on the lines of "no response within 14 days and I will initiate court proceedings without further reference to yourself.

    Did you send that letter as post 47? if not include the contents now

    Leave a comment:

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