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Started MCOL claim against Amazon over returned item:

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  • Started MCOL claim against Amazon over returned item:

    Hi all.

    The basics of my claim so far:
    On 27.1.2021 I contacted Amazon to return a faulty Drone. They supplied me with a returns label & offered me the choice to send it back via ‘Hermes’, which I chose. Hermes picked the drone up & left a receipt.

    I eventually contacted Amazon to state that my refund had yet to appear. Amazon replied to say that the Drone was missing so they would not refund me. I replied to say that I used their ‘preferred choice of return’ so the issue is theirs, as I believe/d this.
    Amazon contacted me to suggest I make a claim against Hermes. I replied to say that the responsibility lies with Amazon as I used
    their ‘preferred choice of return’.

    I started a MCOL claim against them and have attached their defence as a link below as I am apparently now allowed to add attachments(?) (I have scanned them as one PDF and taken out any personal info).
    Please can I ask for some help on what I do now?

    Link:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OMC...ew?usp=sharing
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Hello

    To put it bluntly, you've cocked up and issued a claim against an Amazon company that neither owns nor runs the Amazon website. Seems a lot of the defence has been padded out with information that's not particularly relevant to your claim, assuming your claim stated it was faulty but all of that is irrelevant since you have the wrong defendant. As they have pointed out, Amazon EU SARL is the company you contracted with for the sale of the drone, not Amazon UK Services Limited.

    We see this time and time again on here, especially for claims against airlines where they just pick a UK company associated with that airline and then issue a claim thinking they are all one and the same - they're not. Every company is generally considered a separate legal entity, you can only sue the company (or companies) who are party to the contract you entered into.

    Here's your options:

    1. Contact Eversheds and agree to discontinue on a drop hands basis, that is both sides walk away and bear their own costs.

    2. Issue a notice of discontinuance. The risk here is that you could be liable for their legal costs before the claim is allocated to the small claims track. The small claims track limits costs (see next point).

    3. Issue a notice of discontinuance after the claim has allocated to the small claims track. As above, once the claim has been allocated to this track, costs are extremely limited and you can issue the discontinuance generally without liability. However, do be aware that Amazon could apply to the court for their costs on the basis of unreasonable conduct. It's rare this happens with big companies as they tend to soak up the costs but still possible if they want to make an example.

    4. Make an application to the court to substitute Amazon UK Services Limited with Amazon EU SARL and ask the court to dispense with service of the claim form. As they're based in Luxembourg, the rules say you need permission to serve out of the country so you need the court to dispense with the service as they defence has been drafted with information provided by Amazon EU SARL so there is no prejudice caused. It will cost you £255 for the application, but there is no guarantee a court will accept the substitution.

    5. Lastly, the court might strike out your claim of its own volition as you have no contract with the defendant so there is no claim. The court may order you to pay costs as a result and unfortunately, you will probably have to suck this up unless you wanted to appeal. Chances of appeal likely to be zero because the onus is on you to ensure you are claiming against the right defendant.
    If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    LEGAL DISCLAIMER
    Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, that is interesting and helpful. Thank you so much. Yes, a stupid mistake (I was advised to name that particular Amazon). Thank you so much!!

      Comment


      • #4
        As in here?
        https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/cred...dant-name.aspx

        Doesn't look like a way that it can be refused?
        Last edited by Buel10; 23rd July 2021, 16:58:PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Buel10 View Post
          As in here?
          https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/cred...dant-name.aspx

          Doesn't look like a way that it can be refused?
          Of course it could be refused. That example also assumes you sent the claim to the correct address (albeit the wrong entity) but presumably Amazon UK Services Limited will have a different address than Amazon EU SARL, so you may have to either re-serve the existing (but amended) claim to the correct address or start a new claim altogether which might be cheaper than amending the original one.

          I'm even sure Amazon will have any liability. Have you pursued the issue with Hermes as Amazon suggested?

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          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by EXC View Post

            I'm even sure Amazon will have any liability. Have you pursued the issue with Hermes as Amazon suggested?
            As the courier has been paid by Amazon, isn't the contract between Amazon and Hermes?
            Consideration has not come from the customer, so as long as he has proof of collection by Hermes it is up to Amazon to sort out any problems with their appointed courier

            Comment


            • #7
              Just as a matter of interest, how many products have you purchased and returned over the last 9 months?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by des8 View Post

                As the courier has been paid by Amazon, isn't the contract between Amazon and Hermes?
                Consideration has not come from the customer, so as long as he has proof of collection by Hermes it is up to Amazon to sort out any problems with their appointed courier
                This was my thinking?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by R0b View Post
                  Hello


                  4. Make an application to the court to substitute Amazon UK Services Limited with Amazon EU SARL and ask the court to dispense with service of the claim form. As they're based in Luxembourg, the rules say you need permission to serve out of the country so you need the court to dispense with the service as they defence has been drafted with information provided by Amazon EU SARL so there is no prejudice caused. It will cost you £255 for the application, but there is no guarantee a court will accept the substitution.
                  Re this, I see on the paperwork they sent that the 'Local registered branch' of Amazon EU Sarl is the same as the address that I put in to the claim, do you think the ''Local registered branch' is acceptable?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Forget the paperwork, it's the terms and conditions that govern your contract so you need to read what it says. Companies can use local addresses to respond to things in that country but that does not automatically follow that you can simply send the claim to that address if it is not an authorised address for service.

                    Fortunately, there's nothing specific that I can find in Amazon's Conditions of Sale that suggests that all disputes must be sent to their Luxembourg address. However, at the end of the page they do provide both the Luxembourg address and the local registered branch address.

                    CPR 6.8 says that if a defendant gives an address where they reside or carry on business then they may be served at that address. Alternatively, CPR 6.3 says that you can serve the claim form by any permitted method under the Companies Act 2006. Under the CA, all foreign companies who do business in the UK must be registered with Companies House - this is what Amazon refer to as their 'local registered branch'. Section 1139(2)(a) of the CA 2006 says that if a foreign company has registered with Companies House, you can serve documents at the local registered branch rather than the foreign address, in this case the Luxembourg address.


                    If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                    Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good God I am grateful for your help!!!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi all, is the £255 fee reclaimable?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by R0b View Post
                          Hello

                          To put it bluntly, you've cocked up and issued a claim against an Amazon company that neither owns nor runs the Amazon website. Seems a lot of the defence has been padded out with information that's not particularly relevant to your claim, assuming your claim stated it was faulty but all of that is irrelevant since you have the wrong defendant. As they have pointed out, Amazon EU SARL is the company you contracted with for the sale of the drone, not Amazon UK Services Limited.

                          We see this time and time again on here, especially for claims against airlines where they just pick a UK company associated with that airline and then issue a claim thinking they are all one and the same - they're not. Every company is generally considered a separate legal entity, you can only sue the company (or companies) who are party to the contract you entered into.

                          Here's your options:

                          1. Contact Eversheds and agree to discontinue on a drop hands basis, that is both sides walk away and bear their own costs.

                          2. Issue a notice of discontinuance. The risk here is that you could be liable for their legal costs before the claim is allocated to the small claims track. The small claims track limits costs (see next point).

                          3. Issue a notice of discontinuance after the claim has allocated to the small claims track. As above, once the claim has been allocated to this track, costs are extremely limited and you can issue the discontinuance generally without liability. However, do be aware that Amazon could apply to the court for their costs on the basis of unreasonable conduct. It's rare this happens with big companies as they tend to soak up the costs but still possible if they want to make an example.

                          4. Make an application to the court to substitute Amazon UK Services Limited with Amazon EU SARL and ask the court to dispense with service of the claim form. As they're based in Luxembourg, the rules say you need permission to serve out of the country so you need the court to dispense with the service as they defence has been drafted with information provided by Amazon EU SARL so there is no prejudice caused. It will cost you £255 for the application, but there is no guarantee a court will accept the substitution.

                          5. Lastly, the court might strike out your claim of its own volition as you have no contract with the defendant so there is no claim. The court may order you to pay costs as a result and unfortunately, you will probably have to suck this up unless you wanted to appeal. Chances of appeal likely to be zero because the onus is on you to ensure you are claiming against the right defendant.
                          This really was good advice. Thank you so much.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Buel10 View Post
                            Hi all, is the £255 fee reclaimable?
                            No because it was your fault that you issued against the wrong defendant. Of course you can try, but the question is why should Amazon have to reimburse you for your own mistakes?
                            If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                            LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                            Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Too true, sadly. Thank you.

                              Comment

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