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  1. #1
    distress's Avatar

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    Default Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I bought a lease for a business premise in 2009, although my lawyer, the land lord's lawyer and the seller's lawyer were present, I have not been informed, that the premise had twice big fire incidents in 2000 and also three four years before that, involved several fire engines, police cars, due to potential emergency & danger to apartments above the commercial premise.

    Now due to rent high increase from 25K to over 35K business rate increased by 25% this year and 40% the next, I must renovate the store room to turn into useful commercial part. I already paid half the fee to builder. But, after starting work for a week the builder found out the ceiling where fire had happened very badly repaired, badly repaired and basically it was covered up by new ceiling plaster boards to get the fire damaged parts out of sight; Now 2 steel beams were rotten, I can peal piece of the steel beam just by using bare hand. My builder said roof could have collapsed any time in the last few years.

    Is that a criminal offence that seller and land lord have not informed me during the deal in 2009? I have no address of the seller, but I still have the address of the lawyer who was acting for the seller, Can I sue them under what kind of reason? Attempted murder or GBH or manslaughter.

    Can I sue the lawyer who was acting for me for negligence? for non-advising me to use structural surveyor? And the land lord for hiding the fire incident, or for negligence its duty to check that structural work has been performed correctly, for safety to live to work there? They knew that I was new and in-experienced in trading in 2009. I had been forced to accept to pay 6 month deposits to get the license, because I had no trading history, "or just leave it"

    Due to bad economy in the last few years my income is getting lower and lower, that I see I should soon try to get working tax credit, because from the recent business rate increase, requested rent hike and cost hike I haven't got much left to live on, then come adapting machine to accept new pound coins ( I have a laundrette with coin accepting washer and dryer), machine repair bills, I still have two motors in repair I have not got money to pay for them. I must renovate to making more productive room to improve my trading situation.

    So for renovation and moving shops together, for getting a new shop into the premise I use my saving and borrow money and already pay half the builder fee. I am in debt, but my builder can not continue their work, until roof is repaired and declared as water tight and safe. They waited since 11/7 and threaten to get away by the look how thing around the roof develop so slowly. We have offered to call in our own structural engineer to replace the roof steal beams, so my builder can get on with the renovation. But Land lord has declined and insists to follow their own procedure.

    An agent did come around on 13/07 and reported "By the look of it it is not so unsafe" -hallo there are roof I-format beams, and I knock with my bare hand pieces falling down like raining-; then now their engineer would come in one or two weeks to investigate! One or two weeks!

    I am facing the issue of losing the fee I had paid for renovation. Find a new builder in future would cost me a lot more for the renovation work, because this team know me since long time and we started planing the renovation since last year.

    I can only accept the new more expensive lease only when my trading come back to normal after the planned 8 to 10 weeks my builder would need... But now it is for who knows how long

    I can not concentrate on work, thinking facing the possibility to lose the money for nothing, and have private debt to pay back. The part where it could collapse is the water heater, water supply room, and toilette so the business is suffering until the repair work can be finished... But all I have is basically the land lord side says I have to wait until they complete report and investigation process. and I don't know how long its time frame is and what is about my business.

    I pay through the land lord yearly building insurance. I have not got my own business insurance. My lease run out in April 2017, but with an option for renewal. I did ask them about renewal since last year but they said it was too early.


    I have a lawyer acting for me, and we are middle in the process of lease renewal. But strangely and I am very surprised that although I have passed on information about the part of the building damaged by a fire in the past, and 1 builder is afraid roof could collapse. and it is non-sense to continue to renovate under that roof, because rain water will damage all soon etc. it is true before yesterday it rained slightly and in the morning I saw water mark at the foot of the wall.

    As my builder found out about the roof on the 10/07, in the hope that the roof would be quickly repair, and that we can continue the renovation and I can go back to normal trading with improve trading opportunity, I have instructed my lawyer on the Morning of 11/07 to accept the request new rent level as we have much more important thing to discuss (about immediately repair) with land lord now. That was more than 3 days ago I am confused because although I need very much advise, but my current lawyer handles the lease renewal and damage at the building like two different matters ... He seems not to react on it at all. Is it correct?

    As the roof repair is delayed and erases my hope to a quickly come back to normal trading and also using improved trading opportunity, to cope/absorb the rent increase... That chance is gone. Should I revert my decision to accept the rent increase?

    If roof had fallen on an employee or while washing hands, getting water to clean the premise or turn on/off water supply for the laundrette or roof falling on a customer using the toilette I would be in deep deep trouble, was it not?

    Is there a consumer act on commercial lease selling? Clearly someone/or many people have sold me defect good, or unsafe good which could have killed s.o.

    Could you please assess my situation and give me advice what to do in this case. Sorry for my English. Please ask me where/what ever it is unclear.

    I am financially and emotionally so much in despair, please could you help me with advise what to do and I'm genuinely sorry for the long narrative...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    Evening,

    From what I've read I am afraid you might be onto a loser. Firstly, it is common for landlords to try and create an obligation for the tenant to carry out repairs etc in a better standard than what was at the time. Your solicitor should have carried out sufficient checks, searches, enquiries etc. and advised accordingly - a good solicitor would have done all of this but also negotiated the repair obligation so that you only need to upkeep in the same standard at the time of entering into the agreement.

    As for the murder, manslaughter etc. I think that is a bit of a stretch and unlikely for you to rely on and in any event they are criminal offences not civil. Another point to note is that this is a business to business transaction and there is no consumer equivalent. The courts are reluctant to interfere in these transactions and they have stated on a number of times you can't just get out of it because you have now realised you've had a bad deal.

    If you've paid your solicitor then they should have a file of papers on your transaction which you can ask a copy of and they will probably charge you for it, though if its past 6 years they may have destroyed them. The solicitor may have made enquiries to the seller and depending on those responses to the questions there may be a case of misrepresentation if the seller has falsely stated that there were no previous structural issues or safety problems. Equally, it is also possible that your solicitor may have some responsibility if he or she failed to carry out the necessary checks that a reasonably skilled solicitor would do who works in a real estate department and in that case it would be professional negligence but again, you could be out of time for that as the limitation period is generally 6 years from the date of the negligence, though in some instance sit can be 3 years from the date of knowledge.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    That is not about general keeping building better then it was original. From empty space we have made it to productive shop/shops, we have built up good relation ship to client. not bash every one above the ear who came along/

    There is also an other matter, less than three years after sold the lease to me, land lord put building for a lot longer lease on auction. They appears in a different light now is it not?

    How the jury, the judge or you would feel when a land lord smiley and shaking-handly sold you an apartment lease in a block, only then less then 3 year later they put you through hell with bills of repair work they honestly swearing they never have seen or intended before

    There is a clause about repair. external repair taken care by land lord and internal repair obliged by the tenant. Roof is clearly outside. You can argue tear and wear, but is there not a law that a product should last in reasonable time frame even out of guarantee period. A steal beam under roof fully rusted through in 9 years is a little bit excessive.

    Can my lawyer argue why not finding out about the fault less then 6 yrs after purchase on hard economic time, at certain point rent is too high that we have to use all the room available, hence we find out now. and not 6 years earlier.?

    What about not only during the purchase but at the first basement flooding The land lord did hide that fact when I report the flooding in the basement in 2010, it pushed the fault on other building, the Housing association, instead of come out clean that there was a fire and maybe the roof has not been repair correctly. Neighbour who grew up in the area told me there were 2 fires not only one, fire engines and police blue light everywhere. also at that time seeing it took much too long I paid from my pocket, they never ask again, as if never a flooding in there...

    Well in a sense I still got my round, because all potential auction buyers came into the basement I shown them the water mark, that the owner let me took the bill, those shown me big eyes, turned silence and never came back again.

    If you had a car accident, you repair badly the frame and push it cheap to someone, he got involved in a fatal accident, because losing of control, if the evidence is hidden bent car frame, steering, break etc were fatally affected the cheated seller can not deny responsibility,

    But the same rule is not between business and business transfer! When a roof or wall could have collapsed, only "tough luck"! I can not believe something like that is allowed to slip through never-minded in English or Europe Union law
    Last edited by distress; 16th July 2017 at 22:01:PM. Reason: spell check

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    When it comes to property (both residential and commercial) you may have heard of the phrase 'buyer beware'. The onus is on the buyer/renter to find out as much information as possible about the property before entering into it and there is no legal obligation for the landlord/seller to disclose anything except things that they could not have found out themselves e.g. restrictive covenants.

    Many occasions businesses who are not represented by solicitors enter into agreements only to realise somethings wrong later down the line - sadly, there is no comeback for this and if you are renting a duff property then your still going to have to pay the rent. You are entering into a business to business transaction and have also instructed a solicitor to carry out the necessary checks and searches etc. If you are using the same solicitor you should consult on this find out what was said by the landlord when they carried out searches and enquiries about the property. It is unusual not to have any structural survey carried out but again the onus is on you to do this (or perhaps your solicitor to advise on this).

    You might think its unfair but you are acting in a business capacity and are free to negotiate the terms of the contract and that is the general principle concerning B2B transactions hence the reluctance for courts to meddle with what was agreed. Of course courts might conclude on occasions that a clause is unfair but it isn't easy to prove.

    You said you've got a solicitor who is dealing with this, why don't you divert these questions to that him/her? If your not satisfied with those answers or you don't understand then get them to explain in writing what it means, they should be doing that - and if you are not happy with the responses, make a complaint.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I had a solicitor at the purchase, there were seller's solicitor and land lord solicitor. I have been made to accept
    - paid half the fee of land lord solicitor or no deal ...
    - 6 months deposit or no deal
    - also the flooding in 2010 (there were no receipt but witness,) I end up paid just to get on with trading instead of fighting about small prints and paragraph.
    Could you believe it? I don't want to use a very bad word for these. They knew that at the purchase 2008/2009 I was new to trading. Not that I hid it.

    The problem is I don't remember my solicitor name at the purchase time, But I coincidentally ran into the seller's solicitor, I I see land lord solicitor are still the same.

    The current solicitor is a him. Should he not pick up the roof damage as something fishy here and stop and think hang on not so fast to accept new condition. If I were solicitor I would stop and think. You can not sit there, meet, talk to the land lord and act as everything is normal "Only one just succeed to scam an other and got away with it, tough luck." Since when it is normal standard if you can scam other and get way too, just do it?
    Last edited by distress; 16th July 2017 at 23:14:PM.

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    Evening,

    The courts are reluctant to interfere in these transactions and they have stated on a number of times you can't just get out of it because you have now realised you've had a bad deal.
    .
    I don't back out or want to come out because I have had a bad deal. I instructed and insisted energy company install smart meters I press them to do it since more than two years. I spend money to repair since it took too long on waiting for land lord side, which I could have done, reporting with health and safety and so on.

    My chance my capability of coping with business rate and rent increase by opening new trading opportunity is shattered and delayed because of the roof problem, Because of delay I loss my deposit paid to my builder and could lose more when in three or six month I instruct an other builder contractor doing that job. Everyone know price change every week/month and trader bill is getting only more expensive

    I want that the land lord takes responsibility and makes up for what I had planed and financial have lost, the time the opportunity I could have fight again all these hike of cost... all lost, because this roof issue... the problem which has been hidden for so long.
    Last edited by distress; 16th July 2017 at 23:57:PM.

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    It is difficult for us and probably any other person to know what sort of position you have if we don't have all of the paperwork/information, but you have a lawyer so I would suggest you speak to him, as he is in a better position to give any advice than us. Property litigation is really expensive but if your looking to hold the landlord responsible then that's all I can suggest.

    No doubt the solicitor's firm your talking to maybe has a litigation department and you could have a consultation on your prospects of bringing a successful claim, if any. But as for the roof problem, again it is generally the buyer beware principle and the onus is on you not the landlord. Unless you find out who initially did the work and whether the firm still holds the papers on your tenancy, I think your going to struggle however much you suggest its a scam.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    Thank you Rob, I don't want to fight with you. but I have to say what I think. So you know where I am standing and you can judge I am wrong or right would I have a chance or not.

    It is not personal OK?

    But if what you say is true my belief, that not every entrepreneur is crook, is badly shaken, man or woman.

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I'm not taking anything personally, you are free to say what you like and voice your opinion. Your not the first and won't be the last person to say or feel that things might be a scam because they aren't going as expected or something's gone wrong. That's why there are contracts and agreements in place so both parties agree to what is said in it and if one party doesn't comply, then there will be the remedies set out in the agreement.

    The way I see it is that if the LL is at fault or the solicitor perhaps has been negligent in some way, which will entitle you to a remedy but you are likely going to have to go to court over it. If the LL's solicitor is the same as before perhaps the solicitor is likely to have details of your previous solicitor who was acting on your behalf, and may be able to provide you with that information so you can see whether or not the previous documentation exists. Only then can you really determine if a claim would prove fruitful however since your talking 2009, the limitation period is 6 years so your most possibly out of time for such a claim anyway. Unless there is a misrepresentation on any replies to the inquiries your solicitor made then you might have a claim.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I have been through a court trial before it was 2 years through hell even I won at the end, I thought to the end of my life I never in my life would have to go through court again ...

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    Property litigation is really expensive but if your looking to hold the landlord responsible then that's all I can suggest.
    Big question is it was 2009... 8,9 years ago ... Could you find any exemption of law?

    Is it the land lord or the seller party .... or both are somehow guilty? or that was the part of my at that time acting lawyer, whose office is no longer active (so how can I find out anything?)

    How do you mean "really expensive"... if you had not got an estate, or a legal insurance you could not start the procedure, or you could go bankrupt if you lost the case?

    I got update from my current lawyer, still no mention about damage & roof, only he has received the draft of the head lease after we confirmed on 11/7 that we accept the new level of rent (in the hope the land lord would agree to do a quicker assessment and repair so that there would be no too long delay, and my builder would not lose patient and wake away) because land lord site has two different department: Administration and building Management... So with all the delay and potential financial loss, I am going to face the 35K5 rent level

    Yesterday checking the VOA for appeal of too high business rate, I have the feeling Rate value (RV) going up, because local rent level going up, then seeing RV going up, land lord push rent level up, having seen land lord successfully pushed rent level to new higher level, VOA will re-valuate and put RV up accordingly.... there seems to be no cap on this spiral of higher and higher going price...

    With 52 it is very hard to face the prospect suddenly every thing gone down the drain...

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    The standard position for bringing a claim is 6 years from the date of the cause of action. For misrepresentation claims in property transactions, that will be 6 years from the date of exchange not completion. However, where the relevant facts are not known at the time the cause of action began, then this could be extended to 6 years from when the date the the damage has been caused or three years from the date the claimant knows or ought to have known (a) the material facts about the loss suffered or your cause of action (due to the negligent act or omission which attributed to the loss).

    So the starting would be that it is time barred and you would need to have all of the relevant paperwork to determine if the position has changed - which is why you need a solicitor to look at this for you if that's the route you are going to have to go down.

    When I say really expensive it is common to run into the tens of thousands and also hundreds of thousands. Amongst other things, property litigation is time consuming and slow so unless you have deep pockets against the landlord, it can be difficult to get any real justice if you do have a claim. If you have any legal insurance then you might want to check what is covered under it as sometimes you may be able to rely on that to bring a claim at little to no cost to yourself.

    You should really be discussing these options with your current solicitor because he will know a great deal more than us on your issue. If you are having problems about the building and the new level of rent is an issue, then it would seem logical to look for premises elsewhere rather than the potential for it to go down the drain.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    the structural engineer (S.E.) sent by the LL came yesterday, He said will take 1 or two weeks for complete the report, then LL would find builder once they started it wold take 3 to 4 weeks

    I have no own business insurance, but I pay the premium each year through landlord to the building insurance. do yo know will it cover my loss and damage

    You said: "...The standard position for bringing a claim is 6 years from the date of the cause of action. For misrepresentation claims in property transactions, that will be 6 years from the date of exchange not completion. However, where the relevant facts are not known at the time the cause of action began, then this could be extended to 6 years..."
    Does that count from the fire or from the date I bought the lease?

    I have also talked to my lawyer My lawyer also said it was too long ago, under my ream 9 yrs, but there is a small chance "Unless there is reason or proof why the fact of the fire damage is only discovered recently." At the moment because the lease renewal is on the way, he can only propose a clause a rent free period of 6 months, when we sign the new lease, on the other hand no one in the right mind would sign a lease seeing the roof rotten like that, but the main issue is facing the crazy property spiral (although in residential area, not far from my shop in my road two three four property demand high rent standing empty since more than one, even more than two years now -one of them was a local post office-, nobody understand why LL doing that) based on "demand" at the moment, LL could turn down, take it or leave it, sign it now with no rent free, or lease goes elsewhere ...

    The S.E. also was surprised two fire in 1997 then in 2000, that is 17 yrs ago, and LL had no record,when I discover it .... "Someone must have known and hide that fact." The lease also changed hand once in 2004 before it came into my hand 2009. If I was inexperienced and made mistake, that party and their lawyer unlikely were also same category. Where was LL inspection during 17 yrs? Under my ream they sent agent twice, (it maybe different situation, because they only sent agent out, at time they tried to sale the premise on an auction for long lease over 100 yrs, less than two year after then sale to me, but their auction failed)

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    An other question is:

    It looks like not less then 2 more months before the roof is repaired. I am so scared because the loss of my deposit to the renovation builder appears very eminently now.

    Can the builder walks away? He said he wait since the 10/07 but can not put his workers on standby for longer without extra charge or for every "Very sorry but they have family to feed too"

    I don't know what can I do now? is there anything I can talk or do with the builder... can they they really walk away?, after I have already paid half the work? And if they stay and wait what is the limit for extra charge.

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    "If you are having problems about the building and the new level of rent is an issue, then it would seem logical to look for premises elsewhere rather than the potential for it to go down the drain."

    Thank you for your thought but I can not walk away it is not a small van, 5K or 10K or 30K we talk about here.

    Not that we doesn't make any money, where it makes sense one should walk away before too late, All my live saving all my finance are in here. We have turnover over 50K, 60K for years we pay rate tax rent cost punctually, But the cost creeps up every year 6, 8, 12% and now with 40% rent increase 40% Business rate in crease combined with the slum economy,, and the risk that Business Rate will be re-valuated and raised again soon with the new lease because it RV is only 31K5 while rent creeps up to 35K5 if we allowed it to go through. it is at impossible unsustainable level now. that is the problem.

    if we let the business model stay like in the past, but we could survive if we open an other business opportunity. Hence I have already invest more money into the new business idea. Only now with the roof issue every chance is destroyed, the longer it stays not repaired.

    We are not rich but at least we can survive and keep the hope one day economy would turn positive and we could get our effort repaid, get our money we have invested in the business returned. The only hope is stay and fight

    Would you walk away if your over 100K 150K capital is involved, and you are not Richard Brandson, D. Trumpf or Warrent Buffet... I dont have that much money


    ,

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    It's difficult to give you any further comments on the above because you already have a lawyer in place and you should be discussing your options otherwise you might just get conflicting information. As I have said before your lawyer is in the best position to assist you because of all the paperwork - we don't have anything, nor would it be appropriate to give any comments that undermine your lawyer's advice (unless its drastically wrong).

    I just still don't understand that if you have problems with the current building why on earth are you continuing to go ahead and renew the lease? Your saying you can't walk away from it but if you don't walk away then you are putting yourself in a much worse off position than you could potentially be in, but that's my view and I am not a businessman nor can I really comment on your current position but it does seem logical not to carry on at those premises.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    a lease last 15 years to 21yrs, new lease often shorter 3, 5 or only 10 yrs max. Not like residential lease where you can and you must extend lease before it falls under 63 yrs, meaning it will cost more and reduce your property value a lot.

    In commercial lease only when lease runs out, then LL and tenant will enter a lease renewal process. there is a time frame to do that, After that tenant is in trouble because some definition thing like "...in lieu" there is no more protection from one month to next LL could dissolve your contract without further notice.

    My commercial lease run out in 4/2017, hence last year in Summer I have already asked about lease renewal, LL explained "Too early".

    Lawyer started acting and process of lease negotiation and renewal is going ahead since February. So 4/2017 lease runs out. with the option to be renewal and the time frame is set " In NoV 2017, both sides must reach an agreement.",

    As now-a-days commercial property is often not in a man/womans hand but manage by company, they have departments, my complaint, my problem with the roof issue goes to one department (building management), but the lease renewal has no stop and still pressed ahead by an other administration department

    Plan to extend business I had since last year before Brexit, I knew It will went badly, we have to act, business model must be extend and for coping with the worsen economy impact, continuously sinking number of client compared to what we had before the banking crisis, before EU immigrant issue. We must act. Sit there to expect 2019 economy will head up, is too optimistic, and "2021 economy will turn well, we are prosperous again" we knew that was all lies.

    It is not like you rent residential property when you are happy you can return keys, take your belonging and deposit and walk; find a better suitable property.

    That is not so in business, Here lay our capital, not that we pay rent Month/Quartal, before being in business we already spend our money to buy lease, put down capital to start out business, capital in machinery, investment in build up client circle if drop the lease and turn our back we lose all of that

  18. #18
    distress's Avatar

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    It's difficult to give you any further comments on the above because you already have a lawyer in place and you should be discussing your options otherwise you might just get conflicting information. As I have said before your lawyer is in the best position to assist you because of all the paperwork - we don't have anything, nor would it be appropriate to give any comments that undermine your lawyer's advice (unless its drastically wrong).
    Thank you @rob, I did talk to my lawyer already. But I also very much appreciate to hear your advice or those from your colleagues on LegalBeagles who are more experienced how to deal with Legality, with emergencies, disastrous situations etc

    I appreciate to have your advice not for contradicting my lawyer advise or demise his authority; but to use as additional or alternative idea what might be other options we could have in this situation, apart from giving in or going for a total confrontation

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    My lawyer just come back to me today, and the news is bad

    - No to "Due to roof damage a 6 months rent free so we could have time to pursuing our trading modification plan to cope with the rate + rent increase".
    - No to "Could LL take out the delay time of discover roof damage until roof is repair so we do not have to sign the new lease while our business is suffering"

    Basically only NOs. He will write everything in an email later, basically it look bad, the administration department want to purse ahead or November is dead-line.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I try to stay calm to be friendly but they the LandLord is not. Could I PM their reply letter to you @rob? If you need info and data I scan and send my lease to you There is no more expert on commercial lease in this forum @rob?

    It is very serious now. my lawyer says they blame and put us in the situation to sign the lease first or we have not anything to talk to them. I have asked him today if there is a litigation dep. in his firm because I think I seriously need consultation

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I was surprised to see the face of Mr. Chuka Umunna as a current Lambeth MP, I remember he was shadow business secretary not long ago, quite important figure in finance and business, in talk show and television about business and finance issue.

    Problem like i have do you think I could ask him for a meeting, Can I bring some people business owner in my neighborhood,, older respectable resident who support me, who thinks no one in the right mind would sign lease in this current state, who thinks that the landlord is also partly guilty in the roof damage, in the sale of a sub-divided shop,

    Do you think it may be good to see him to show Mr Umunna the problem I have, asking if I could get help?

    Further thought:
    Mr Umunna may be competent in business and finance, but he is a bit further from Stockwell area, he stands for Streathham. How is the common rule to seeking a meeting with your MP, you have to talk to the nearest MP available? In that case Kate Hoey would be my nearest around Vauxhall? But would she understand problem in business, lease, etc
    Last edited by distress; 22nd July 2017 at 11:09:AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    I am not British original. Could someone pls help me prepare a letter so I can send the writing to Mr @Umunna or MP Kate @Hoey asking for a meeting?

    Reading about Mr Umunna background particular about his parent, I am inclined more to show him the problem I have with my land lord regarding law -they sold me that good which breached of lease-fire damaged- ignore on repair now they blamed on me why did I not pursue at that time- lie about ownership etc) /lease/damage/too high rent/affect trading or not I think Mr Umunna would be more the person who would understand

    If someone like him Mr. @Umunna still does not understand my issue "Why just don't sign the lease and get over it", I can find a rob and hang myself then
    Last edited by distress; 27th July 2017 at 08:31:AM. Reason: spellcheck

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    Sorry,
    Last edited by distress; 22nd July 2017 at 14:02:PM. Reason: double-posted

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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    The rules of seeing writing to am MP are laid out. You need to write to the MP that represents your constituency
    Any advice or opinions I offer are based on my experience dealing with personal debt as well as other life events.
    I have no formal legal training
    Any advice is offered without liability
    If in doubt take professional legal advice or contact the CAB

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Need urgent advise in a troublesome commercial tenancy

    You are right, I can find laid-out general rule
    "
    General tips


    • MPs are very busy. ...
    • Cultivate a relationship with an MP's staff. ...
    • Be polite and courteous. ...
    • Do write down any specific comments made by your MP.
    • If your MP is keen to work more closely with ORG, please let us know!
    • Remember to include your full name and address. ...
    • Write in your own words. ...
    • Keep it short."


    But it is my problem keeping it short. It is not just "Help, no driving license and I lose my job" that is so much tangled land lord with their sale and now blame on me I should have called in proper check at purchase of lease, blame on me the breach of lease before I found out problem with the fire damage on roof, blame that the previous lawyer not practice any more, the choke hold of tangled financial issues: Property price rise parallel with a griping austerity, VOA , business rate up 30%, 40%, in same year with material cost, rent level rise 40% and ... walk away or I don't know the exact definition, enter a voluntary bankruptcy scheme is no option

    Even to find a appropriated lawyer to discuss the problem, price is set £500 plus VAT for the one first meeting... can you see the the choke hold

    That is why I ask

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