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  1. #1
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Hi Everyone.... glad to be here and hope to get the advice I need and the experience to eventually help others out in time

    I'm not far away from my 55th birthday, divorced, two kids (living with their mother) living in a rented room in a flat. I ran up debts gambling but have been free from that for six years and am generally happy now, get on very well with my kids. For the last seven years I was out of work for the first two and then spent four years in a local job which paid a lot less than I was used to (but because I was no longer gambling, it left me with a lot more!). Last year I was fortunate enough to get a job back in the city on a significantly better salary which has allowed me to treat my kids (maybe more than I should) and get out a little bit more than I was able socially.

    In 2014 I was in court for tax owed (around 20k) , and I committed to paying so much per month and the balacnce when I was able to access my pension (25% tax free). I didn't receive the details of where to pay and eventually it turned out an earlings order was made against me, though this all went through a previous address of mine without me seeing sight of any of the paperwork till well after it was made. After I changed jobs I responded to a letter received from the court telling me they had been advised I had left my old job (in fact I received this before I had left) with my new details and didn't hear back from them. Until, that was, a year later recently when I received a letter telling them they'd been informed I had left my current job! That came as a shock, but it wasn't true. Recently they have taken my details again and suspended the earlings order on condition I pay HMRC a certain sum by the end of each month

    Now all my other debts seem to be coming back... I must confess I have been reciving letters and phone calls from a variety of different debt agencies all of which I've steadfastly ignore. However just last week I received a County Court Business Centre Claim Form details as follows...

    Received a claim? Y
    es
    Issue Date:
    26th June 2017
    Amount approx:
    £7k
    Claimant:
    Arrow Global Limited
    Solicitor:
    Shoosmiths
    Original Creditor:
    HSBC
    Particulars of Claim:
    Monies due in respect of incurring an overdraft whist operating a bank account
    Is the debt Statute Barred?
    No ( I think I last used the bank account about 5 1/2 years ago)
    List any letters you have sent:
    None
    Any Other Info:
    I have recently had a Good Repute check conducted on me at work and today was called in about the results. Whilst there was no problem with the Inland Revenue CCJ as I had informed them of that at the time of joining, it transpires that I have another CCJ issued against me in January against an old address of mine. I have absolutely no information about this as it would appear everything would have been sent to an address I have not been at for over four years.

    I'd be grateful for advice as to how best to respond to the latest court document and to deal with the CCJ I have only just become aware of (issued by the same court). I am willing to start monthly payments but with the monthly contribution I am already having to make to the Inland Revenue, I do not anticipate being able to afford much significant.

    Ideally I would like to come to some arrangement that enables me to make a contribution without the CCJs (assuming I eventually clear my HMRC one by using my pension) as this would make my prospects of staying in my current job and maintaining my earnings potential. Does this sound like something a company like Arrow would contemplate? And what would have happened on the CCJ that I had no knowledge of, until I spoke to HR today?

  2. #2
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Hi again....just wanted to bump this as I'm not sure whether I need to put the main bit into a different thread?

    The most immediate question I have is, how do I respond to the County Court Business Centre claim to fill in the details (not to contest it) if I don't know what my current outgoings are in connection with the outstanding claim I have only just found out about?

    Also, if I already have a County Court judgement against me for the HMRC which determines that I pay a certain amount of money a month to them, will this impact upon what the judgements would be in respect of timeframes to pay back the one I have just received and the one I have only just found out about?

    Thanks

  3. #3
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    tagging @Amethyst @Diana M
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

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  4. #4
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    This latest one you can treat a bit differently to the HMRC claim you dealt with. You may well be able to defend against it. The other one too for that matter.

    First thing to do is Acknowledge the Claim - with 'Intend to Defend in Full' then Check your dates ( Issue date 26th June plus 33 days ( 28 days plus 5 for service ) to get your Defence date ( be around 26th July )

    Then we need to look at the claim and whether you can defend it, probably need to send the claimant a couple of letters requesting documents/information to evidence they are entitled to claim it from you.... and check if there are excess charges on the account.

    Is " Monies due in respect of incurring an overdraft whist operating a bank account" the WHOLE particulars of claim on the form ?

    £7k does seem like quite a lot for an overdraft - do you know if you had a Loan or Credit Card with HSBC as well at the same time as the overdraft ? HSBC are buggers for sticking everything together and calling it an overdraft.


    The other one you have just found out you have a CCJ for already - does it say on your credit file or on the Registry Trust exactly who holds the judgment ? You'll need to search your old address on Registry Trust I think. What you need to do firstly is try and contact the judgment holder, or the court, to find out what the Judgment is for - if you have a court reference on there it may be best to try the court first, save alerting the Judgment holder that you are looking into it. You want a copy of the claim and the judgment so you can start investigating and consider whether to apply to set it aside or to vary the order to installments. At the moment it doesn't sound like you have any enforcement action being taken, and it's been under judgment for 6 months, but you should still try to deal with it promptly.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  5. #5
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Many thanks for the response Amethyst. Frustratingly I have left the letter at work so can't get hold of it until Monday.

    My recollection is of having an overdraft of £5k which I had exceeded, but I suspect there may be around £800 of a loan remaining that has been tacked on. The actual claim is for £6.5k with fees making the difference to £7k

    One strange thing I did pick up on it was a box for the claimant's "signature" into which was typed a name "Joe Smith" or something similar. Should this not be an actual signature?

    Regarding the other claim, I only know about this because my workplace told me about it and I don't have the details. I did write to the court a couple of days ago referring to the recent case and asking them to provide details of the other claim.

    Once again many thanks for the reply. I'll put up the full context of the particulars on Monday, but my recollection is that there's not much more context to it than the line I took from the paragraph

  6. #6
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Is " Monies due in respect of incurring an overdraft whist operating a bank account" the WHOLE particulars of claim on the form ?
    Full particulars are

    "1. The claimants claim is for the sum of £6531.10 being monies due from the defendant incurring an overdraft whilst operating a bank account (account no. xxxxxx) with HSBC Bank plc
    The debt was assigned to the claimant on 29/08/2014 and notice of assignment provided to the defendant, pursuant to the Law of property Act 1925
    2. Payment of the above sum has been requested, but as at the date hereof refused
    3. The claimant claims the sum of £6531.10
    4, C has complied, as far as is necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction
    Beneath this is an area saying "The Claimant believes that the facts stated in this claim form are true and I am duly authorised by the claimant to sign this statement" Followed by the typed name of "Jim Taylor" who is listed as the 'Claimant's Legal Representative'

    The amount claimed in full is £6,531.10 plus £410 Court Fee plus £100 Legal Representative's costs giving £7,041.10 in total
    Last edited by Sunday Morning; 10th July 2017 at 12:41:PM. Reason: typo

  7. #7
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Looking at the template letter to send to send the defence on, do I assume...

    1) 26th July is my Defence Date or is this something there is a formal notice given on?

    2) As per the particulars of the Claim above, there are no doucuments, agreements or contracts referred to... what should i cite as documents that I want to inspect?

    Thanks

    SM

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    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    33 days fom 26th June will be 29th July.
    As that is a Saturday, the first following working day will be the absolute latest for actually filing.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  9. #9
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunday Morning View Post
    Looking at the template letter to send to send the defence on, do I assume...

    1) 26th July is my Defence Date or is this something there is a formal notice given on?

    2) As per the particulars of the Claim above, there are no doucuments, agreements or contracts referred to... what should i cite as documents that I want to inspect?

    Thanks

    SM
    Hi...sorry to bump...but just wondering about the documents I can actally cite when using the template? Should I just put "all relevant documents"?

    SM

  10. #10
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Hi

    With overdrafts there is usually some kind of written details; possibly a facility letter?
    They mention assignment, so there should have been a Notice of Assignment.
    By implication then, there will be a Deed of Assignment.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  11. #11
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Am sending this letter off today....would appreciate any comments if anyone has the time?

    Shoosmiths LLP
    5 The Lakes
    Northampton NN4 7SH
    DATE: 10 July 2017
    Dear Sirs,
    Claim Number: XXXX
    Request for documents mentioned in a statement ofcase under CPR 31.14
    On 26/06/2017 Ireceived a County Court claim from yourselves of which I have acknowledgedreceipt indicating my intention to defend in full.
    To enable me tofile my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents youmention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on 31st July 2017.
    1. A letter offacility regarding the provision of the overdraft
    2. A bank statement showing the extent of the overdraft as determined
    3. The Notice of Assignment
    4. The Deed of Assignment

    In accordance with CPR31.15(c) I undertake tto be responsible for your reasonable copying costsincurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

    You should note that this claim has not yet been allocated to a specific trackand the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect. Had your claim not beenissued through CCBC the Claimant would have been obliged to attach copies ofthe documentation upon which it relies to the Particulars of Claim. I , asDefendant, am entitled to see the documents on which the Claimant relies andwhich you will have to produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enableme to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective.

    You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that thedocument(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days ofreceiving this letter.

    If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell mein writing and confirm your agreement to an extension of the time allowed forme to file my defence as allowed under CPR 15.5 so I may notify the court.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Yours sincerely



  12. #12
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Aargh... I came on here to find the next steps regarding how to submit my defence and I have realised that I should have submitted a cheque or postal order with my letter to Shoosmiths? In addition I only sent them the letter late last week.

    Got a feeling I've messed things up. Would be grateful for any advise anyone could offer me at this point as to how to proceed.

  13. #13
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    I need to submit something by tomorrow I presume. Can I do this online? I've received nothing so far from Shoosmiths Do so just mention this as my defence?

  14. #14
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Example Defence


    amend all paras to suit your case,m i.e. submitted request on xx xxx xxx for cpr31.14



    cca request on xx xxx xxx still outstanding etc etc to suit , get it up on here minus personal details and as Ame rtc to read over for you

  15. #15
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Thanks Mike. Is the defence letter equally as applicable to a claim for an overdraft as for loans and credit cards?

  16. #16
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    yes just amend to your case

  17. #17
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Thanks again Mike

    Here's my online comment (not yet submitted. I'd be grateful for your views. I've left a few paragraphs out in view of the fact that I did not send the postal order accompanied request. So I guess at this point I am just going for an extention of time. Is the last paragraph still a "must" to put in in my circumstances?

    ===============
    I received the claim xxxxxxx from the NorthamptonCounty Court on
    3rd July 2017
    Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is
    denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
    This claim is for an overdraft agreement regulated under the
    Consumer Credit Act 1974.
    It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered intoan
    agreement with HSBC for provision of credit.
    The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information
    to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the
    claim.
    The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the
    agreement was entered into.

    The Claimants statement of case states that the account was
    assigned from HSBC to Arrow on 29/8/2014. The Defendant does not
    recall receiving notice of this assignment.

    It is denied that HSBC served any Default notice on the Defendant
    pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required
    to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the
    Defendant.

    I sent a request dated 10th July 2017 for inspection of documents
    mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil
    Procedure Rule 31.14 to Shoosmiths. I requested the Claimant
    provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of
    Assignment.

    I have not as yet received any of these documents frm Shoosmiths

    I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary
    documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the
    Claim should stand struck out.

    In the event that the relevant documents are received from the
    Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and
    would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
    It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as
    claimed or at all.
    Statement of Truth
    The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are
    true.
    Signed ________________________________
    Dated ________________________________

  18. #18
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    @Amethyst
    Last edited by Kati; 31st July 2017 at 14:44:PM.

  19. #19
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    @Amethyst xx

    - - - Updated - - -

    (couldn't edit Mikes tag )
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

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  20. #20
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    okay xx two mins
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  21. #21
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Just couple of amends - very basic, just to make it easier should you need to switch to claiming unfair terms/relationship later.


    I received the claim xxxxxxx from the Northampton County Court on 3rd July 2017

    Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

    This claim is for an agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    The claim is for an overdraft on a bank account held with HSBC Bank. It is admitted that I held an account with HSBC Bank.

    The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

    The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the agreement for an overdraft was entered into.

    I do not recognise the amount being claimed. The Claimant has not provided any detail of how the amount claimed has arisen or been calculated, and I am unable to check whether the amount includes any unfair charges.

    I do not have any details of the terms under which an overdraft facility was granted. The Claimant should provide a copy of those terms so I may assess the fairness of those terms and my liability, if any.

    The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Arrow on 29/8/2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

    It is denied that HSBC served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

    I sent a request dated 10th July 2017 for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Shoosmiths. I requested the Claimant
    provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

    I have not as yet received any of these documents from the Claimant

    I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

    In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

    It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  22. #22
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Many thanks for this Amethyst it really is much appreciated

    I submitted online about 17.00...will that still count as today, as I believe it's the last day for putting in my defence?

  23. #23
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    you got a receipt from the site?

  24. #24
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    You'll be fine... a default judgment isn't automatic, it has to be applied for by the claimant after the defence deadline, putting your defence in before they ask for default judgment means they can't ... basically.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  25. #25
    Sunday Morning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Time To Start Sorting Things Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE770 View Post
    you got a receipt from the site?
    I got the following...Defence - Confirmation

    Step 7 of 7


    Thank you. You have successfully submitted your Defence form to the court.

    It then goes on to say "If your response was submitted on or before 4:00pm on a day on which the court is open, it will be received and processed on that day. Responses submitted after 4:00pm will be received and processed on the next day that the court is open"

    Wasn't sure if that meant it wouldn't qualify for the defence deadline, but Amethyst's reply has set my mind at rest

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