Court Summons

[Andy Thomas]

Re: Court Summons

Hi Kati/Ostell,

Many thanks for your kind replies to the matter. The signage with the terms and conditions is about 20 metres to the right of the high sign, which is around 30 metres from where my wife parked, Next to the pay machine the sign has clearly been taken down from the wall of the bank.

I have been and read the signage, and blue badge holders are exempt, but this is written in very small notes at the bottom of the terms and conditions.

Kati, I think you are spot-on with your info, when reading through the particulars of the claim by CEL. It states that there are many visible signs advising drivers of terms and conditions of use, and the signs constitute an offer of a contract with the driver.

I have to file a defence for this today and wondered if you advise me on what grounds I can do this. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Kind Regards,

Andy

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Kati/Ostell.

Sorry, in answer to your question regarding the bank, I have not contacted them yet, but I will do so to see if they can assist.

KR, Andy

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Summons

What is the issue date on the court claim form?
Could you post up (or write verbatim) the Particulars of Claim? (Obscure personal info).
Were you compliant with the signage terms re Blue Badge?
Did you take pictures of the signage?

[ostell]

Re: Court Summons

You meant to say that Blue Badge Holders are NOT exempt from charges.

So some of your defence is that the sign at the entrance cannot be readily read by a driver turning in to the car park. There were no other signs visible in the car park from where the car was parked. You will require CEL to provide evidence that the signs were visible from your position on that day.

[Andy Thomas]

Re: Court Summons

Hi Ostell,

You were correct regarding the blue badge non exemption, and thank you for your advice on the matter, much appreciated.
KR, Andy

[Andy Thomas]

Re: Court Summons

Hi Kati,

Thanks for the reply.
The issue on the court form is the 8th June, and an acknowledgement has been sent.
I will email over the details of the claim, and we weren't aware of the signs regarding the blue badge. My wife thought that she was exempt as she has a disabled badge.
I haven't taken a picture of the signage but this can be done quite easily.

Kind regards, Andy

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Summons

Ok

Your defence deadline date is 33 days from claim issue date.
I make that 11th July.

[Andy Thomas]

Re: Court Summons

Hi Kati,

I have sent over the picture of the parking sign.
I hadn't mentioned that my wife also has retinal vein occlusion, which makes it difficult for her to see in her right eye above waist height.,Not using this as an excuse, but she may have not focused on the higher sign as you drive into the car park, I don't know if this should be mentioned in the defence.

Can't give you more information, sorry to have sent you as much, but your help is great!

Please let me know how to move forward.
KR,
Andy

[Kati]

Re: Court Summons

[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] xx

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Summons

Thanks, @Kati
A bit of a brain-teaser for a Monday morning, this.
The PoC avoids mention of PoFA 2012, so I'm guessing they are going for driver liability under contract law.
If so, no good arguing out-of-time NtK.
I'll have a think (Beavis non-compliant might be a possibility).

@Andy Thomas
Is your email to CEL the only communication that you have made to them?
Was there any reply to it?
Were you offered an appeal?
I do note that there is no mention of a trade association (BPA/IPC) on the site sign.

[Kati]

Re: Court Summons

@Andy Thomas
Is your email to CEL the only communication that you have made to them?
Was there any reply to it?
Were you offered an appeal?
I do note that there is no mention of a trade association (BPA/IPC) on the site sign.

....

The PCN was from CEL, who then sent it to Wright Hassall solicitors, and then ZZPS. My wife was sent text demands from one of the companies, not sure how they got her mobile no.

I appealed to CEL, and also sent the letter to Wrights, but had no response back at all, and no mention of any appeal process. I sent one detailed letter to both, but nothing back.

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Summons

@Kati......thanks

@Andy Thomas
Was the letter to WH exactly the same wording as the appeal to CEL? (Apart from the name, of course).
I'm wondering whether there may be an argument as to whether the driver has in fact been ID'd.
Beavis does stress the need for clear legible signage, particularly the contractual charge for breach.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2015/67.html

[Andy Thomas]

Re: Court Summons

Hi Kati,

Sorry this is taking up a lot of your time, and I have to file the defence for this in the morning.
Correspondence as follows:
CEL sent a letter before court action on the 01.11.16
I appealed the PCN to CEL on the 14.11.16 - No reply back.
Enforcement letters in Jan/Feb from ZZPS - Called and they would not discuss, required payment.
Letter from WH on the 03.03.17 - Appeal letter was sent to WH and CEL by e-mail, same letter, 21.03.17 - No reply back
Court summons issued on the 08.06.17.

Is there an argument that the signage was to high to read on the entrance to the car park? It is also very limited with regard to blue badge holders?
I read on a website a similar case, which stated no reasonable adjustments had been made to consider a disabled person. I don't know if this would be a valid point?

Thanks again Kati,
KR, Andy

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Summons

@Kati

Over to you.

[Andy Thomas]

Re: Court Summons

Hi Kati,

Not quite sure re your reply, sorry not got my head around this one?
KR, Andy

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Summons

Lol. Andy.

I'm not Kati.
Kati is the good-looking one!
I'm more
(But shhh..... don't let on that I said so.....)