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  1. #1
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    I received 2 parking charge notices from Excel Parking for alleged contraventions of their conditions. The first was for parking on 15/05/2017 and the PCN issue date was 06/06/2017 the second was for parking on 17/5/2017 and the PCN issue date was 05/06/2017.
    There is absolutely no question that the appropriate tickets were purchased, displayed correctly and we did not overstay their duration. On one occasion my wife purchased the ticket and the other I did, so it would be doubtful if we inputted the wrong registration number although as the last letter of our registration is O and it may have been possible that we both inputted a 0 (zero)
    I appealed these PCN’s (and may have implicated the driver i.e. stating the purchaser of the ticket) but they have both been rejected on the basis that no similar registration numbers were found in their system at that time.
    Hopefully managed to download the relevant documents relating to these notices
    We are both in our sixties and this has caused us a great deal of worry and anxiety so any help would be much appreciated.
    Finally I would again reiterate that parking tickets were purchased.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    I have further researched this forum and have found the following:

    There may be an option to dismiss the appeal on the basis of the ‘time barred protection of freedom act’ although I may have prejudiced myself with my original reply to their NTK.
    My initial response:

    I have visited this parking site on 2 occasions recently and have received PCN notices on each occasion ( PCN 16232399 06/06/2017 the other occasion) and cannot understand the reason for receiving these notices. We have definitely paid and displayed our tickets and not over stayed our time. On the first occasion my partner obtained the ticket and on this one I obtained the ticket so do not think we both could have made any errors with the registration number. We are both in our sixties and sometimes find the machines which ask for registration numbers confusing and wonder if there could be any other reason why these notices have been issued?



    There is a very detailed response found here http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...ntre-Stockport but dating back to 2015 and probably would not be appropriate for my case.

    There has been several other motorist who have had exactly the same problems with that car park during May which could suggest there was an problem with the ticketing machine. http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...689#post735689

    I am really torn between pursuing this to the County Court or paying the £120 just to get rid of the issue which is really causing me a great deal of worry and stress.

    Any advice would be most greatly appreciated

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    tagging @charitynjw xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

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    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    It is a shame that you have effectively outed the driver as Excel, as usual, have failed to comply with POFA, outside the 14 days, to be able to hold the keeper liable. Did you ask Excel for a copy of the log from the payment machine? Do so now, and point out that you have knowledge of the same problem suffered by others. I suppose it's too much to hope that you still have the tickets?

    If you do get the logs look for gaps in the times and/or garbage input showing that the machine was playing up and either not recording or recording rubbish.

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    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Thanks for the information ostell, I will request the information today via a 'signed for' postal communication.
    I will also try to contact the members of this forum to ask them to do the same.
    Unfortunately I do not have the tickets and feel such a fool for responding to them in such a naive way.

  6. #6
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Hi Kati
    is there a message here?
    peakview120

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by peakview120 View Post
    Hi Kati
    is there a message here?
    peakview120
    no ... I was just tagging someone to make sure they see this thread xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is kati@legalbeagles.info
    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Hi,


    I've just received a PCN/NTK through the post demanding we pay a 100 pound fine for parking without payment.

    We have a blue badge which we forgot to display.

    Does anyone know if this is worth appealing and how best to approach this?

    Thanks!

  9. #9
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Hi remxwill
    Sorry I cant help you with this as I am trying to sift through the confusion and legalities of my own situation.
    One very important piece of information for you though is DO NOT REVEAL OR IMPLICATE ANYONE AS THE DRIVER, the notice is to the KEEPER of the vehicle and apparently the parking companies biggest problem is identifying the driver.
    Hopefully someone on here will be able to give you some advice
    Good Luck!
    peakview120

  10. #10
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ostell View Post
    It is a shame that you have effectively outed the driver as Excel, as usual, have failed to comply with POFA, outside the 14 days, to be able to hold the keeper liable. Did you ask Excel for a copy of the log from the payment machine? Do so now, and point out that you have knowledge of the same problem suffered by others. I suppose it's too much to hope that you still have the tickets?

    If you do get the logs look for gaps in the times and/or garbage input showing that the machine was playing up and either not recording or recording rubbish.
    Hi Ostell

    I have now requested the logs from the parking meter and have received a reply from Excel.
    They have referred to my request for the logs as my ‘Appeal (Representation)’ and have given ME additional time to provide evidence of the ticket purchase.
    They have turned my request around completely.
    Do you know if they are legally bound to provide this information or is the whole scenario a ploy to substantiate their case when it goes to court.
    I have attached copies of my request and their reply.

    I have also been thinking about my response and the potential for me having outed the possible driver.
    Reading my response again does this not ‘out’ two possible drivers or do you think that would that be decided by the courts?

    Sorry if I appear to be questioning your valued earlier response but I am becoming increasingly worried and concerned about these issues and whether or not to pursue them.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  11. #11
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    An update on the 2 PCNs issued against my vehicle during May 2017.

    I have written to Excel Parking Services quoting the numerous websites (including this one) that have recorded similar issues with the malfunctioning ticket machine at the Peel Centre.

    I also repeated my request for the logs from the ticketing machine and stated that I was fully prepared to defend these notices in court and would not be bullied by threats of increased penalties and cost associated in pursuant of these false claims.

    I have also written explaining the situation to owners and managers of the parking i.e. Peel Land and Property at Stockport and their head office at the Trafford Centre along with emails to Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council, Stockport Trading Standards and Stockport Citizens Advice Bureau

    I have today received emails from Vehicle Control Services Ltd (same address as Excel Parking cancelling the Charge Notices

    The reason stated:

    After a thorough investigation of the events surrounding the issue of the CN, combined with the evidence held on our internal systems; we can confirm that the Charge Notice has been cancelled with immediate effect.
    We trust you find this outcome satisfactory and thank you for your future co-operation.


    Many thanks to everyone on this forum for your invaluable advice.

    If I can be of any help to others please post on here or send me a personal message.

  12. #12
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Glad to see a result.

  13. #13
    Van2008's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Hi Peakview

    I have just received a parking notice for failure to purchase a ticket at the Peel Centre when like yourself I 100%know I purchased a ticket. The PCN dates back to the 24th June so I no longer have the parking ticket. You mention in one of your posts that you named several websites in a letter to excel where customers had complained about malfunctioning ticket machines - do you have details of these websites? Did Excel ever produce the logs from the ticket machines to you? Glad to hear you had your parking notices cancelled

    Thanks

  14. #14
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    So what's number of days between the event and the date you received the PCN? Post up the PCN with identifying details erased

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ostell View Post
    So what's number of days between the event and the date you received the PCN? Post up the PCN with identifying details erased

    Contravention date was 24/6/2017 and issue dare was 8/8/2017.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Copy of PCN
    Last edited by Van2008; 13th August 2017 at 20:28:PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Peel Centre PCNs are via ANPR.

    So the Notice to Keeper is out of time, as it should have been received by the registered keeper within 14 days of the parking event.

    Sch 4 s9 PoFA 2012.

    As previously posted, do not ID the driver.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    Peel Centre PCNs are via ANPR.

    So the Notice to Keeper is out of time, as it should have been received by the registered keeper within 14 days of the parking event.

    Sch 4 s9 PoFA 2012.

    As previously posted, do not ID the driver.
    Whats my best course of action now as I was going to appeal the notice - do you have any suggested wording regarding the Notice to keeper been outside the 14 day period of the parking event - I have read online about the freedom of information act 2012 schedule 4 regarding timescales is this what you are referring above Sch4 S9 PoFA 2012 ?

    Thanks for you help.

  18. #18
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    I have read online about the freedom of information act 2012 schedule 4
    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 9(5)
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  19. #19
    peakview120's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Van2008 View Post
    Hi Peakview

    I have just received a parking notice for failure to purchase a ticket at the Peel Centre when like yourself I 100%know I purchased a ticket. The PCN dates back to the 24th June so I no longer have the parking ticket. You mention in one of your posts that you named several websites in a letter to excel where customers had complained about malfunctioning ticket machines - do you have details of these websites? Did Excel ever produce the logs from the ticket machines to you? Glad to hear you had your parking notices cancelled

    Thanks
    Hi Van2008
    I initially and naively appealed the PCNs via their own sister company and the appeals were rejected. My initial letter to them after they rejected that appeal:

    As registered keeper of the above vehicle I would request logs from the pay and display machines associated with the above Parking Charge Notices for the days of the alleged infringement.

    The machine involved was the machine located nearest to the Costa Coffee outlet.

    After much investigation I am now aware that similar allegations of non payment were made by Excel Parking to several motorist during that period of May 2017.

    I believe the machine or the recording facility of the equipment is at fault.

    I then wrote again:

    As registered keeper of the above vehicle on the dates of the alleged parking infringements I respond as follows:

    My correspondence dated 30th June 2017 was a statement of fact and not an ‘appeal (representation)’ as you have stated in your email.
    In my correspondence I requested logs from the pay and display machine associated with the alleged infringements. I have not received the logs and would further request them. If you are unable or unwilling to provide the logs please advise me within 14 days of this letter stating your reasons for non disclosure of the information.

    My correspondence referred to similar alleged infringements at the Peel Centre during that period in May 2017 and I would refer you to the following selection of sample websites:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk
    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk
    http://legalbeagles.info/
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com

    Please note this is not a complete list of websites referring to PCNs issued by Excel Parking.

    Each of these websites documents issues with the pay and display machines at the Peel Centre during that period in May 2017.

    A contributor to one of these forums has had their appeal upheld by Excel Parking. This contributor purchased a ticket from the pay and display machine nearest the Costa outlet on 14th May 2017 but received a PCN. She appealed the PCN and Excel Parking has withdrawn their claim on the basis that the ticket was ‘issued in error’

    In view of the above overwhelming evidence of a machine or recording malfunction with the pay and display machines at the Peel Centre during that period in May 2017 I request that the Parking Charge notices referred to in this correspondence are immediately cancelled.

    As the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the alleged infringements I am fully prepared to defend this in court and will not be bullied by threats of increased penalties and cost associated in pursuant of these false claims.

    Furthermore I shall be formally informing and advising various organisations and official bodies of this situation.

    I also wrote in a similar vain to the owners of the car park, Peel Land and Property at Stockport Peel Centre and their head office at the Trafford Centre, Stockport Council and Trading standards via Citizens Advice.
    It would be easier using the 14 day time constraints mentioned as my route was very time consuming and worrying. Very important that you do not implicate the driver of the vehicle as repeatedly advised on this forum.

  20. #20
    Van2008's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    I appealed the PCN on the 13th August on the grounds that the Notice to keeper was outside the 14 day period and that keeper liability did not apply.

    The website says they will reply to the appeal with 28 days but I have only today received a response from them stating that in order to process my appeal properly they need me to either

    1 Name the driver and provide an full address.
    or
    2 Provide a written statement from the driver confirming I am acting of their behalf including the drivers name and address
    or
    3 Pay the fine at the reduced rate of £60

    they have given me 14 days to respond.

    Do I go just go back reiterating I can not be held responsible as the registered keeper under the freedom of information act .

    Thanks

  21. #21
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Peel Centre Stockport Excel Reject PCN Appeal

    Just ignore. They would be very happy for you to pay or identify the driver.

    They know that they haven't a case but are hoping you will slip up.

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