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  1. #26
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Got it.

    How bizarre that they have said in the Witness Statement that they have sent the Agreement, enclose a letter saying they have sent the agreement, but not ever actually sent the agreement. I suppose they are hoping it will show up so they can say ''here is the one we sent'' in court.

    If that's everything they have sent you then they have failed to comply with your section 78 CCA request .

    So letter that says they enclose the agreement ( but didn't, just the digital application thingy) ...
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  2. #27
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Default notice
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    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  3. #28
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Notice of Assignment
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    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  4. #29
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    And THIS is what they are saying is the agreement (presumably as they haven't included any agreement, just this... and there are no terms )
    Just confirm Ohfreeme - is this what was in the WS at pages 1-3 of the exhibits?
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    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  5. #30
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Got it.

    How bizarre that they have said in the Witness Statement that they have sent the Agreement, enclose a letter saying they have sent the agreement, but not ever actually sent the agreement. I suppose they are hoping it will show up so they can say ''here is the one we sent'' in court.

    If that's everything they have sent you then they have failed to comply with your section 78 CCA request .

    So letter that says they enclose the agreement ( but didn't, just the digital application thingy) ...
    That's what I thought, the tone of the witness stament is what upset me.

    I didnt think i should respond when my request had not been fulfilled.

    I think I will work on my own witness statement pointing out that the agreement has never been received.

    What did you think of the letter from the Original creditor?

    Seems odd to write a letter confirming information with no contact detail and not even addressed to me.

    Looks like a standard template...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    And THIS is what they are saying is the agreement (presumably as they haven't included any agreement, just this... and there are no terms )
    Just confirm Ohfreeme - is this what was in the WS at pages 1-3 of the exhibits?
    Yep that is it, not even somewhere showing where I should or would have clicked to sign...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also a print out of transactions... No terms and conditions etc. X

  6. #31
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Yip make a start on your Witness Statement. They have sent theirs a bit early and you've got 14 days still to get yours written, filed and served

    I think I'd do agreement not received, however if the claimant's case is that exhibits 1-3 are the agreement then they fail because x,y,z etc. Di might have other thoughts on that though.

    Considering you seem to have started out on GOODF, your defence isn't that bad At least you got the CCA request sent and into the defence and didn't try calling yourself Free of the Family Man ....

    ( just popping the POC here for you )
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Yip make a start on your Witness Statement. They have sent theirs a bit early and you've got 14 days still to get yours written, filed and served

    I think I'd do agreement not received, however if the claimant's case is that exhibits 1-3 are the agreement then they fail because x,y,z etc. Di might have other thoughts on that though.

    Considering you seem to have started out on GOODF, your defence isn't that bad At least you got the CCA request sent and into the defence and didn't try calling yourself Free of the Family Man ....

    ( just popping the POC here for you )
    Thank you! You're a star!

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Oh AND.... don't let the tone of anything they send upset you ... they don't see you as a person, just a line of numbers of a page and £££ .... there's no thought or feeling goes into anything. It's just like playing chess against the computer ... except you win more often ( actually not sure if that makes you feel better or worse about it !)
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  9. #34
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Morning all,

    I was about to crack on with my defence when I noticed that they missed something out from the pack they sent to the court and copies to me...

    The attached image was a letter included with the statements and the table with my details that they claim to be the credit agreement...

    What do you make of it please and is it worth mentioning in my defence?

    I also noticed that they've hidden things from the supposed notice of assignment.

    I mentioned before that the documents looked fraudulent (Which is why I initially ignored them).

    On my original letter they've used Vanquis logo and also running down the side is their own printer reference which proves that their letter and the fake notice of assignment was printed from them at the same time.

    These two things are missing from their court evidence.

    I feel like Sherlock Holmes today lol.

    (Edit: I found the second copy sonit was included haha... So much paperwork I'm getting rather confused. I'd still like to know if it has any relavance though.)
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    Last edited by Ohfreeme; 19th September 2017 at 10:05:AM.

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Please anyone? I'm gonna have to hand it in in person tomorrow which is the deadline....

  11. #36
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    They haven't provided the terms have they and their ''agreement'' doesn't contain any of the prescribed terms at all.

    Where you up to on your Witness Statement ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  12. #37
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    They haven't provided the terms have they and their ''agreement'' doesn't contain any of the prescribed terms at all.

    Where you up to on your Witness Statement ?
    I'm doing it now!

    So fingers crossed I don't fudge it up, been browsing through the forum and other sites to get an idea of what to write. I'll post what I manage to do before I hand it in. I'm hoping that if I take it in person it won't count as late. The court letter stated both parties had until the 29th...

    I've been horrendously ill and then my daughter came down with illness so I've been up with her the last 2 nights...

    Anyway I better crack on.

    Night night.

  13. #38
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    Unhappy Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohfreeme View Post
    I'm doing it now!

    So fingers crossed I don't fudge it up, been browsing through the forum and other sites to get an idea of what to write. I'll post what I manage to do before I hand it in. I'm hoping that if I take it in person it won't count as late. The court letter stated both parties had until the 29th...

    I've been horrendously ill and then my daughter came down with illness so I've been up with her the last 2 nights...

    Anyway I better crack on.

    Night night.
    ok this is what I managed tonight... My head hurts and I feel hopeless but I tried anyways.

    if anyone is around in the morning and would be kind enough to let me know if I should hand it in or not please let me know. I was going to try and get there straight after the school run but I'll drag it out till about 11am in case I really have done a horrendous job.

    I honestly don't know what the hell I've gotten myself in for and sort of feel like giving up.




    IN THE COUNTY COURT AT Xxxxx

    Claim No. xxxx

    BETWEEN:
    LOWELL PORTFOLIO I LTD

    Claimant
    - and –




    Xxxxxx



    Defendant


    _________________________________

    WITNESS STATEMENT OF Xxxxxxxx
    _________________________________


    1. I Xxxx of xxxxxx, am the Defendant in this claim. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge, documents in my possession and all documents made available to me from the Claimant “xx”.

    2. Exhibited to this statement marked “xx” is a paginated bundle of documents. Where I refer in this statement to a page number.

    3. The claim relates to a credit agreement (“the Agreement”) regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I believe the account was opened in 2008, however I do not recall signing any credit agreement at that time and do not hold a copy of the agreement or terms of that agreement. The original account was opened with a company named xxxx.

    4. I do acknowledge receipt of a notice of assignment and letter from the Claimant dated 27th October 2015. I did not initially respond to them as I believed that the assignment was not real. Both where received in the same envelope with the same printer reference giving indication that the Claimant had created both these documents and that it was not sent from the original creditor. Please refer to page 1-2 of “xx”


    5. I am mother to (way to many kids to handle, I put a number here) children aged from xx to xxyrs, x of my children are on the Autistic Spectrum and I am unemployed. We where made homeless in 20xx and I also contracted xxxxx. Due to this, subsequent correspondence from the Claimant where filed to be dealt with at a later date.

    6. I moved with my children to the above address in xxxxx xxxx. Due to various personal problems including my battle with depression I continued to file correspondence from the Claimant not feeling the mental strength to call and question the letters received.


    7. I acknowledge that I did receive a letter of claim from the Claimant, although it is dated xxx xxx xxx I did not receive it until xx xxx xxxx, I was not able to respond at the time as I was making preparations for my xxxx Operation. I mentioned before that I have x children on the Autistic Spectrum, I feel this is relevant to mention this as my children need structure and routine. As I would be absent for some time I had to make preparations in time of my surgery in xxxxx.

    8. I had my xxxx operation on xxxxx. The claim form was received xxxxx which I completed and returned.


    9. I made a request to the Claimant and the claimants Solicitor for further information relating to the claim, sent recorded delivery and including the £1 fee via postal order. Please refer to pages 3-6 of “xxx”.

    10. I received a response to my request from the claimants Solicitor dated xxxx, with the previously mentioned notice of assignment attached. This time the company logo and printer references where removed. Please refer to pages 7-9 of “xxxx” No Credit agreement was included.


    11. The claimant has failed to provide true copies of the requested documents.

    12. The next correspondence I received from the claimant was a copy of the directions questionnaire dated xxxxx, still no sign of the agreement.


    13. I acknowledge that the Claimant sent to me the documents they have supplied to the court with reference “xxx” with the letter dated xxxxx which is page 19 of “xxxx”

    14. I did not respond to the claimant as I had still not received the credit agreement and the prescribed terms and conditions, although the claimant mentions that the credit agreement is included in the pack I still have not received a copy.

    15. The Claimant has not complied with my formal request for the Credit Agreement under s.78(1) and therefore is unable to enforce the debt at this time.



    Statement of Truth

    I, xxxxxxx, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.


    Signed: _______________________________

    Sorry got got a little ott with the marking out of details... I really am rather paranoid.

    Many thanks for all your help and reassurance.

  14. #39
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    There's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm going to make a couple minor amends, and add in a bit more about the apology for an agreement, but really, you shouldn't be so down on yourself - but your family, and your own health, comes first, so if you need to pull back don't just chuck in the towell, do it in a managed way, and you could always consider getting some formal legal help with it, no shame in that.

    Getting some coffee and going to go back through the thread make sure we've got your WS as strong as it can be xxx So will be an hour or so
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  15. #40
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Okay, I have tried to keep in your mitigation paragraphs - if the court decides to try and impose terms then you have that there to help with negotiating a sensible payment arrangement. It shouldn't happen. If the claimant did suddenly come up with an actual agreement then you'd want to ask for an adjournment to check it over and amend your defence. As things stand your defence is failure to comply with s.78, and that no agreement was signed by yourself in any event.

    Any further input very welcome ... and any questions ask - remember I'm not a lawyer or anything and it is you that will be arguing this in court so make sure it makes sense, is true and that you understand it xxxxx ( might have to redo numbering ( pasting from word to here sometimes cocks up numbering and spacing ))

    sooo....DRAFT Amendments ..................


    In the Northampton County Court Business Centre


    Claim No. XXXXX


    xxxxxxxxx
    Claimant


    and

    xxxxxxxxxxxx
    Defendant



    Dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2017

    -------------------------------------
    WITNESS STATEMENT
    ------------------------------------

    I, xxxxxxxxx, of xxxxxaddressxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, am the Defendant (Applicant) and make this statement in support of my defence in this case. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge, documents in my possession and all documents made available to me from the Claimant “xx”.

    1. I received the claim on xxth May 2017 from the Northampton County Court Business Centre.



    1. I acknowledged receipt of the claim via the Moneyclaim online service on xxth May 2017.



    1. I submitted a defence in the case on xx June 2017.



    1. The claim relates to a running-account credit agreement (“the Agreement”) regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.



    1. I believe the account was opened in 2008, however I do not recall signing any credit agreement at that time and, on checking my records, found that I do not hold a copy of the agreement or terms of that agreement. The original account seems to have been opened with a company named xxxx.



    1. In order to find out more information, and check the terms of the account to enable me to assess my position with regard the claim and the accuracy of the sums claimed I made written requests for further information and documentation to include the Default Notice, Notice of Assignment and Agreement.



    1. On 12th June 2017 I made a formal request for a copy of the original credit agreement pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and enclosed the statutory fee of £1 ( Exhibit XXX )




    1. The Claimant responded to my formal request in a letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxx 2017 ( EXHIBIT XXX). In their letter they state they have enclosed a copy of the Agreement. Enclosed with the letter was a document ( Exhibit XXX ) entitled “Digital Signature Application Details”.



    1. This document supplied by XXX in response to my s.78 CCA request, is certainly not a copy of the original agreement nor even a reconstruction of the original agreement. The supplied document is an internal digital application form used to consider an application for credit, containing only name, address, age and employment data followed by a section detailing approval or decline of the credit facility.



    1. Therefore the Claimant has failed in its duty as Creditor (pursuant to s.189 of the CCA 1974) to comply with a formal request under s.78(1) and under s.78(6) cannot enforce the agreement.




    1. If the court should find that the document provided by the Claimant at Exhibit xxx is the agreement, I would contend that the document is not a properly executed regulated agreement under section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and does not contain the prescribed terms and cannot be enforced.



    1. Contrary to reg 2(1) of the Regulations the document does not contain the information set out in column 2 of Schedule 1 to the Regulations in that;

    a) A heading in the prescribed form of words does not appear prominently on the first page of the document
    b) There is no description of the type of credit
    c) There is no detail of any credit limit
    d) There is no detail of the rate of interest on the credit provided under the agreement
    e) There is no detail on the timing or amount of repayments
    f) There is no reference to the APR.
    g) There is no reference or indication of any charges on default



    1. On xxxx June 2017 I also made a formal request for copies of documents mentioned in the statement of case, being the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.
    2. In response the Claimant has provided a copy of the Default Notice and Notice of Assignment ( EXHIBITS X & X )


    15. I had not previously seen the notice of Default until the Claimant provided a copy. the Default notice is dated xxxxx and required compliance by xxxxxxx 2013. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx EXPAND ON THAT IF THERE'S AN ISSUE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


    1. I do acknowledge receipt of a notice of assignment and letter from the Claimant dated 27th October 2015. I did not initially respond to them as I believed that the assignment was not real. Both were received in the same envelope with the same printer reference giving indication that the Claimant had created both these documents and that it was not sent from the original creditor ( EXHIBIT X ) I still require the Claimant to prove that they have legal entitlement to the rights under the agreement.



    1. I am mother to X children aged from xx to xxyrs, x of my children are on the Autistic Spectrum and I am unemployed. We became homeless in 20xx and I also contracted xxxxx. Due to this, subsequent correspondence from the Claimant were filed to be dealt with at a later date.



    1. I moved with my children to the above address in xxxxx xxxx. Due to various personal problems including my battle with depression I continued to file correspondence from the Claimant not feeling the mental strength to call and question the letters received.



    1. I acknowledge that I did receive a letter of claim from the Claimant, although it is dated xxx xxx xxx I did not receive it until xx xxx xxxx, I was not able to respond at the time as I was making preparations for my xxxx Operation. I mentioned before that I have x children on the Autistic Spectrum, I feel this is relevant to mention this as my children need structure and routine. As I would be absent for some time I had to make preparations in time of my surgery in xxxxx.



    1. I had my xxxx operation on xxxxx. The claim form was received xxxxx which I completed and returned. I realise that I should have dealt with the alleged debt before it reached this stage, however as I had no information regarding the debt and documents did not appear to be real, I naively thought it would just go away.



    1. I respectfully ask that the court finds against the Claimant as they have failed to comply with s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and the original creditor failed to comply with s.61 of the same. The alleged agreement is not enforceable by the Claimant against the Defendant.


    Statement of Truth
    I believe that the facts stated in this statement are true.
    Signed
    __________________
    xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  16. #41
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    lol, yes it's called everything number 1. Sorry xxx

    Ahh also maybe add in the ''agreement'' doesn't include the name and postal address of the creditor (if it doesn't )

    Sorry I have to take my neighbour to hospital ( fractured foot apparently ).
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  17. #42
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    Red face Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    lol, yes it's called everything number 1. Sorry xxx

    Ahh also maybe add in the ''agreement'' doesn't include the name and postal address of the creditor (if it doesn't )

    Sorry I have to take my neighbour to hospital ( fractured foot apparently ).
    Thank you so so much!!!!

    I hope every thing works out for your neighbour.

    I'm going to fax it to the court, I hope that will suffice as my daughter is awful today. Snotty and miserable.

    I'll update the thread if there are anymore developments.

    Take care!

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Dropped him off - I'm sure he'll be fine I'm very caring ...

    Don't forget to get a copy posted 1st class to the claimants as well if you can get out to the post office - hopefully your Daughter will feel better soon xxx
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  19. #44
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    I'm not in a position to comment on a Witness Statement drafted by a third party (I have to respect my firm's insurance).

    Ask yourself whether 'mitigation' may also be viewed as 'admission'.

    Also ask yourself whether saying you received the NOA but didn't believe it was "real" is an admission of receiving the NOA regardless of whether you understood its relevance. A court may take the view that either you received it or your didn't.

    You also refer to receiving correspondence from the creditor but filed it away. Could the court construe this as 'on the balance of probabilities' you did receive the Default Notice (and/or any other statutory notice)?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    I'm really not sure what I'm doing and I cannot afford legel help. When I went for advice from the CAB. They told me to go bankrupt. I don't see how that would work as you need £750 to do that.

    I'm losing confidence in this...

    How can a company enforce an agreement that they (and the creditor) don't have?

    Also can clearly forged documents be I held up in court?

    If that where the case could I knock up a few statements on word and create a letter of assignment and send it to my neighbour claiming they owe me thousands. Then take them to court?

    Are you saying that my witness statement is weak and I should just give up? I was starting to feel a little more positive but now I really don't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was being honest, isn't that what the point of a witness statement is?

    I did file it away, I file away everything it's part of my routine as a carer as I don't have much time to myself to even eat or take a bath sometimes. Right now my daughter is screaming her head off...

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    I think Di is just tryng to say that if the defence fails on the credit agreement issues the case is weaker because you have received the NoA, but we know that already - to be clear to be able to enforce the agreement they need to provide one that does actually comply with the Consumer Credit Act. If they pop up with one at the hearing or before you can ask to adjourn to assess the documents, and can make an offer/negotiation of settlement under either a consent order, or by going through the court for a CCJ and installment plan, if the defence falls away.

    On the NOA bits - the documents are recreated, not forged, and the assignee is allowed to send a notice of assignment on behalf of the original creditor.

    Do not lose confidence, you're doing great xxx
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  22. #47
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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Oh and can't help but feel going bankrupt for a £3k credit card debt would be insane IMO. Is there a lot of other stuff debt wise you're dealing with ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  23. #48
    Ohfreeme's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Yes it all came about when the CSA held on to my children's maintainance payments for 4 months and all by now pay later accounts where due and I had nothing to pay them. Also the bedroom tax came into effect and I had no money to even cover the rent and support the children.

    At the time I was honest with the creditors and explained the situation but they where not sympathetic and the interest piled on.

    Then when where made made homeless I was adviced to stop paying and save what I could to get a deposit together.

    I honestly haven't been peeing away on catalouge it's just the extortionate aprs. The lowest APR I had at the time was something like 38%.

    Lots have happened to me and my family and I have been forever changed by it all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    He stopped paying the money aswell in case you ask why I didn't pay off my debts when they did send the money. Which was sent in drips and drabs not as a whole amount and he only started paying again in 2016. He still owes about £1600. But the changed to the new service and they won't do a thing.

  24. #49
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Perhaps @Debt Camel would be able to make some suggestions about your overall financial situation.

    You've battled through so much so maybe a fresh start is not such a bad idea?

    Were you offered Mediation to settle this claim since it's under £10k?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  25. #50
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

    Oh don't worry, I know how quickly things can snowball when you're on the breadline - you've done completely the right thing though, being upfront with the creditors and keeping up with the priorities first ( rent & kids !) - really there's very little the DCA's can do to you, and if you did go on to lose this ( looks unlikely at the moment though ) the court would only ever order an affordable amount of payments.

    I had a catalogue at something like 49.9%, my only income was benefits and they bumped the credit limit up to £3k before you could blink and I just couldn't keep up anymore. That's now with 1st Credit so I'm holding them off and saving up to do a full & final settlement. CSA were a pain in the bum too. I had a letter this week from them about changing to the Child Maintenance Scheme - which is nice, considering the CSA did sod all, and my ex has ( after a 3 year gap ) been paying privately anyway.

    Really life just happens sometimes and you just have to put what's important first, so don't feel bad at all.

    I've pm'd you btw xxx
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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