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  1. #1
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Hello and Good Afternoon,
    I'm reffering to a debt for 10,000 (Natwest Dual Card) since 2006 (approx)
    I do remember making monthly payments (my brother was making them for me) but everything stopped in 2014 .
    Forgive my ignorance and imprecision please.
    A letter was sent to me on the 27th of April (I received it on Sat the 29th but only opened it on Monday the 1st) from Shoosmith solicitors asking me to make contact otherwise the court.
    On the 10th (have the receipt), I sent a letter to Shoosmith asking for details:
    ==============
    Recorded Delivery: From
    xxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxx

    xxxxxxx


    Your Ref xxxxxxx

    Shoosmith LLP Solicitors
    5-7 The Lakes
    Northampton
    NN4 7SH




    10/05/2017

    Dear Sirs,

    Re: Your Client – Cabot Financial Limited
    Pre Action Conduct - Request for Information

    With regard to your letter dated 27/04/2017, which stated Legal Action would be taken, I take this to be a Letter before Action under the above named Pre Action Conduct Protocol and as such I am responding accordingly.

    As you have indicated you are acting on behalf of Cabot Financial Limited in this action, I assume you are authorised to accept service of documentation, therefore, please accept this request for Information sufficient to understand the claim being threatened and as such is in accordance Section 3 of the Pre Action Conduct, by way of Service Upon You and your client.

    As I have never entered into any Legal Agreement or Contract with your client, for any monies or specifically for the alleged amount of £10368.04; and I neither accept nor acknowledge the assertion any debt has been Legally and Absolutely Assigned to your client, I therefore, request the following documentation under Pre Action Conduct Section 6 (c) as proof of your Clients assertions of a Legal Obligation, to be provided to me within 40 days of the post marked date of this letter.

    I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974) a copy of the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy of the original Terms & Conditions and any and all subsequent changes in said Terms & Conditions.

    II. Statements of the Account referred to, including details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was charged against each item, leading to the Alleged Debt of £10368.04.

    III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Default Charges may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999, therefore, I would request details of each and every Default Charge applied to the Account (i.e. if the charge was for ‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the Default Charge) along with details of any Interest Charged against each Default Charge applied.

    IV. In accordance with Section 87.1 Of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) a copy of the Default Notice from the original owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was served upon me.

    V. A copy of the Legal / Absolute Assignment of the Agreement, including a copy of a Duly Executed Deed of Assignment and / or Deed of Tripartite Novation; and

    VI. In accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how I was served with the Alleged Legal Assignment.

    VII. A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original creditor to the Defendant and again, in accordance with Section 196 of the Law of Property Act 1925, Certified Copies of how this was Served upon me.

    Should proceedings commence against me and your client fail to provide each and every document requested, I will make an Application to the Court to Stay your Clients claim until the request is complied with and request the Court impose Sanctions against yourself and your client for failure to adhere to the provisions of the above mentioned Practice Direction.

    Also please be aware, each document listed is required to provide absolute and legal proof of your client’s contention of a legal indebtedness towards them and again, should your client fail to produce said documentation and Proceedings Commence against me I will apply to the Court to Stay your Clients claim Until said documentation is received.

    As a part of my defence I will re-request production of each and every document under an appropriate Civil Procedure Rule, along with a request under CPR Part 39.a (3.3) for the original of every document upon which you intend to rely be brought to any subsequent hearing for examination.

    Please note, where I have mentioned a document and there is in your clients possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

    I look forward to your response in due course.

    Yours faithfully
    Leo

    ========================

    today I received the County Court letter and now I am more nervous than ever.
    I did sign up on line but I don't know what to do.
    I would like to tell the court about the letter I sent.
    Forgive me, I don't remember and I don't have evidence.
    I did send letters to creditors many years ago, asking for CCA proof and never received anything.
    I have checked my credit on 'Checkmyfile' and only see 1 default for 3000 but nothing about the 10000 from Natwest.

    I really am in a massive stress status now and can't concentrate on anything.
    I don't want to ignore it. If it is there and I have to come to some sort of agreements so be it.
    But they have ignored my letter.

    I hope I can get this sorted.
    After my divorce in 2006 I went trough several stress issues (medications included) and now I feel like it's all back!

    Have a nice day
    Leo

  2. #2
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Hi Leo

    Welcome to LB

    people will do their best to help.

    First point, as this claim if for over 10,000 it will likely be fast track so your conduct is important to minimise costs etc
    Don't let that stress you but I would also think about legal representation, this can possible be done on a CFA (no win no fee) .

    In your letter requesting a S78 response, did you send the appropriate fee?

    These are your first steps http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...it-Court-Claim

    In essence, if your request did not include the fee, make a new one to Cabot with the fee, sending by RM signed for

    Then send a cpr 31.14 request to shoosmiths but you can only ask for what is in the particulars of claim, maybe you would want to type out the POC but without any identifiable comments
    @Diana M @pt2537

    Hope that helps

  3. #3
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    @Kati

    Could you work your magic and put the thread in the court claims

    Ta
    x

  4. #4
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Quote Originally Posted by warwick65 View Post
    @Kati

    Could you work your magic and put the thread in the court claims

    Ta
    x
    sorted xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is kati@legalbeagles.info
    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

    Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

  5. #5
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Hi again leo

    In my rush I forgot to say, welcome to the stress club , when my claim landed on my doormat I felt just the same, wanted to curl up and die, well not literally but I looked at the worst case scenario

    As I said to someone, how do you eat an elephant - 1 bite at a time and that is the way to deal with this , one step at a time.

    Make sure if you can you keep all correspondence

    I should also add, you really should send a SAR to NatWest to get all the details they have, £10 fee and the template is on the forum under received a court claim. Green box at the top of this page , look down the thread that the link goes to, various options of how to phrase it

  6. #6
    pt2537's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Hi there,

    The advice you have been given is correct in my view, you need to request a copy of the agreement under the Consumer Credit Act, and also use the CPR rule 31.14. Do keep an eye on time frames too, its easy to let things slip and to miss a deadline, if you mis a court deadline it could lead to sanctions being entered against you so its important to note the time frames which you have to work with.

    If you havent already you will need to file the acknowledgment of service, id suggest stating an intention to defend all of the Claim at this stage.

    Do let us know if you need anything else.

    As for the suggestion of getting legal advice, it is of course up to you if you want to look at appointing someone to deal with the case for you. There are a number of firms out there that offer no win no fee funding arrangements.
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.



    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


  7. #7
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot


  8. #8
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Thank you for your replies.
    So now I will print and send CCA Request and CPR 31.14 request correct?
    I have signed up on the Money Claim online: I need to respond to them (before I end up forgetting). What do I do? Defent the claim? not sure.

    Problem: I am spending more time overseas now (family reasons) so email would be best. However, I can ask close friends to post on my behalf.

    thank you again.
    Leo

  9. #9
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    defend all , = read getting started info in there

    also e-mail responses to CCBC through the following;-

    Claim responses & directio
    ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk


    when alloocated to a local court you would need to find their e-mail address

  10. #10
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Ok I have filled the Acknowledgment of Service

    and I have selected 'defend all'

    and now?

  11. #11
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Quote Originally Posted by nleo View Post
    Thank you for your replies.
    So now I will print and send CCA Request and CPR 31.14 request correct?
    I have signed up on the Money Claim online: I need to respond to them (before I end up forgetting). What do I do? Defent the claim? not sure.

    Problem: I am spending more time overseas now (family reasons) so email would be best. However, I can ask close friends to post on my behalf.

    thank you again.
    Leo
    send Recored delivery

  12. #12
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Starting the defence:

    Please complete all fields marked *

    Please state your defence in a maximum of 122 lines in the box below.*



    - - - Updated - - -

    oh dear now what??

  13. #13
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Do not enter any dialogue in the 'defence box' for now.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  14. #14
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Defence Example do not send it yet get advice on here and comment - also send it 1 day before due then the other side cannot trash your defence before their next move First Steps

    Note:- once Court proceedings in force:-

    and read - re-read the following time scales must stick to court time table not any solicitors on hold comments if they make them! they cannot put court cases in existance on hold.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @warwick65

  15. #15
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Guys I am so nervous I am shacking!
    So I shall leave the 'Defence Particulars' empty?
    Where and when do I request the CCA and other stuff?

    Thanking you

  16. #16
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    CCA with £1.00 Postal Order to claimant

    CPR31.14 free of cherge to solicitors

    - - - Updated - - -
    @diana M

  17. #17
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    ok I can send the CCA to Cabot.
    But do I have to do it via the moneyclaim online in response to the court claim?
    I don't understand, sorry

  18. #18
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Quote Originally Posted by nleo View Post
    Guys I am so nervous I am shacking!
    So I shall leave the 'Defence Particulars' empty?
    Yes....if you acknowledge within 19 days of the claim issue date, you have 33 days (from the issue date) in which to file a defence.
    Where and when do I request the CCA and other stuff?
    Asap. Keep copies & get proof of posting.
    CCA + £1 fee to Claimant, CPR (plus a copy of the CCA request...no fee with this one).....to the Claimant's solicitors.

    Thanking you
    ####
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  19. #19
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Ok I have the letters ready.

    The One to the Solicitors:
    Please read it and let me know please.

    The Particulars of claim as written:
    1 the Claimant claims the sum of 10368.04 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and RBS (Natwest Dual Classic (5454xxxxxxxxxxxx) and assigned to the claimant on 25/04/2016, notice of which has been provided to the defendant.
    2 the Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 .
    3 the Claimant claims the sum of 10368.04 and costs.
    4 the claimant has complied, as far as is necessary, with the pre-action conduct practise direction.

    ===================CPR 31.14
    Lxxx xxxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx


    19/05/2017

    SHOOSMITHS LLP
    5 THE LAKES
    NORTHAMPTON
    NN4 7SH
    for Claimant:
    CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED
    1 KINGS HILL AVENUE
    KINGS HILL

    WEST MALLING
    ME19 4UA


    Dear Sirs,

    Claim Number: xxxxx

    Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14

    On 16/05/2017 I received a County Court claim from yourselves of which I have acknowledged receipt indicating my intention to defend in full.

    To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on 06 June 2017.


    1. Agreement
    2. Assignment
    3 Default Notice


    In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

    You should note that this claim has not yet been allocated to a specific track and the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect. Had your claim not been issued through CCBC the Claimant would have been obliged to attach copies of the documentation upon which it relies to the Particulars of Claim. I , as Defendant, am entitled to see the documents on which the Claimant relies and which you will have to produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enable me to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective.

    You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

    If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and confirm your agreement to an extension of the time allowed for me to file my defence as allowed under CPR 15.5 so I may notify the court.

    For your information and records I enclose a copy of the formal request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to this claim, pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which has been posted to your client with the statutory fee of £1 today, 19 May 2017. Correct date?)

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Yours sincerely

    Leo

    ==================== End

    letter to Cabot

    =======================CCA

    Leonardo Fazzi
    xxxxx
    xxx
    xxx

    19/05/2017



    CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED
    1 KINGS HILL AVENUE
    KINGS HILL

    WEST MALLING
    ME19 4UA

    Dear Sir/Madam

    Re:− Account Number 54546xxxxxxxx

    Please treat this letter as a formal request for you to supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

    Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

    If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

    I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.


    Yours faithfully,
    xxxx

    ========================end

    Before receiving the Court Claim, I did send a letter to Shoosmith (but they ignored it? )


    ============== the letter I sent recorded delivery
    Leoxxx
    xxxx
    xxx
    xxx

    10/05/2017



    CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED
    1 KINGS HILL AVENUE
    KINGS HILL

    WEST MALLING
    ME19 4UA

    Dear Sir/Madam

    Re:− Account Number 545xxxxxxxxxxx

    Please treat this letter as a formal request for you to supply a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement as is my entitlement under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit.

    Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

    If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189.

    I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.


    Yours faithfully,

    leoxxxx

    ===================end (i did not send the postal order) they did not reply

  20. #20
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Hi leo

    As said, all you do for now on the MCOl website is tick the acknowledge and defend all . Noting yet in the defence box.

    The CCA and CPR request are sent as royal mail signed for - then check online in a couple of days to see if they have been delivered. Do not fret too much if they do not show.

    If you can afford it and are really worried you can send by special delivery which costs over £6 a throw. I have never sent anything special (other than stuff to a solicitor when it was valuable).

    Seriously though, try not to worry , I know it is nerve wracking - you should have seen me the day i got the claim - but a few good people really helped and calmed me down - thanks @Diana M

    I decided for my claim of 5K ish to use a solicitor to deal with it, not because I didn't think I was able , just because I had a lot on and I knew dealing with the claim would impact my education ( I'm an old fart doing a degree).


    The letter in the post above you sent to shoosmiths was the right one BUT it should have gone to Cabot and it should have included the £1 fee. Then if they do not reply that is their fault

    ( Last year i was being chased by cabot for two debts , so I sent them a CCA request for each and apart from an acknowledgment have heard nothing since)

    If I am going on too much, just tell me, ask me simple questions and tell me you want simple answers - I am an old gas bag sometimes

  21. #21
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    & as @warwick65 has suggested, send a SAR.

    I should also add, you really should send a SAR to NatWest to get all the details they have, £10 fee and the template is on the forum under received a court claim. Green box at the top of this page , look down the thread that the link goes to, various options of how to phrase it
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  22. #22
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Thank you.
    CCA and CPR going today.
    I will also prepare the SAR to Natwest.
    Qusation: I have to give them 40 days. what about the time for my defence? as I state it would be before?
    SAR copy to Shoosmiths as well?

    Thanks you

  23. #23
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Recorded Delivery


    SAR originator only not shoosmiths are only solicitors

    - - - Updated - - -

    do your defence on time not the 40 days that is a response to SAR only

  24. #24
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    I can't find the Contact address for RBS Natwest ?

  25. #25
    nleo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Court letter from Shoosmith on behalf of Cabot

    Here's the letter..
    Please advise if I need to mod please

    ================SAR

    Leoxxx
    DOB xxxx
    xxxx
    xxx
    poscode

    Natwest Card Services
    PO Box 5427
    Southend-on-Sea
    SS1 9AJ


    RBS (Natwest dual Classic) Acc. Number 54546xxxxxxxxx

    DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998 - SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST



    Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

    Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

    This Subject Access Request includes - but is not limited to any data you hold about me in respect of any matter and held in any form including; statements, notes, screen notes, recordings, internal correspondence and external correspondence. Please note that this Subject Access Request is not limited to the account/reference number mentioned above but that number has been provided purely as a starting reference for you.

    For the avoidance of doubt, and as stated above, this Subject Access Request requires disclosure of ALL personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you

    I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 calendar days in which to comply

    If you have had previous addresses you could include list them here

    If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return.

    If I do not hear from you then I will assume that this Statutory Request is satisfactory and that the 40 day timescale has started.

    Yours faithfully,
    Leo


    =================== End
    Just as it is ? £ 10 as postal order?

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