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  1. #1
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    Question Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    I'm a domiciliary care worker who walks to my clients. Every day I work many hours unpaid. For example, my first call today at 8.30am (it's easier on the weekend, I usually start at 7am) took an hour and a half longer to leave safe, clean and well. If I had not tended to her adequately she would have ended up in an ambulance.
    Simple question. I shall only be paid for 30min - even though the office was informed of the difficulties and I was not told to leave. As I worked for two hours and will still only be paid for 30 minutes, I have effectively worked for below the minimum wage.
    Has anyone thought of using this argument as a challenge in the courts for the abysmal terms and conditions zero hours care worker endure?

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Mary Connell; 14th May 2017 at 19:06:PM. Reason: poor grammar

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    tagging @Ula and @mariefab xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    bumping for @Ula (who's online now ... although for how long I don't know lol) xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage



    ​​​​

    https://www.carersuk.org/

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    Hi sorry to have taken so long to jump on this thread. Are you on a zero hours contract or are you on a fixed contract hours contract? Who informed the office of the difficulties and who made the decision that you needed to remain where you were to deal with the situation?

    Sorry for the questions its will just give me some further information so I can help with your post.
    I do my best to provide good practical advice, however I do so without liability.
    If you have any doubts then do please seek professional legal advice.


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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage



    ​​​​

    https://www.carersuk.org/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    What counts as working time

    For all types of work, include time spent:

    • at work and required to be working, or on standby near the workplace (but don’t include rest breaks that are taken)
    • not working because of machine breakdown, but kept at the workplace
    • waiting to collect goods, meet someone for work or start a job
    • travelling in connection with work, including travelling from one work assignment to another
    • training or travelling to training
    • at work and under certain work-related responsibilities even when workers are allowed to sleep (whether or not a place to sleep is provided)

    Don’t include time spent:

    • travelling between home and work
    • away from work on rest breaks, holidays, sick leave or maternity leave
    • on industrial action
    • not working but at the workplace or available for work at or near the workplace during a time when workers are allowed to sleep (and you provide a place to sleep)

    Example 1
    A care worker has 2 appointments in the morning and doesn’t take any breaks. The worker must be paid at least the minimum wage for the time he spends at the appointments, plus the travel time between appointments.

    Example 2A care worker has 2 appointments, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. After the first appointment he goes home to have a break before he goes to his afternoon appointment. The time spent travelling from the first appointment to his home and from his home to the second appointment doesn’t count towards the minimum wage.
    If the care worker didn’t go home but took a break on the way to his next appointment, he would be paid for any travel time but not for the break.

    Example 3A care worker has one appointment in the morning, then goes to the office to work there. At the office she is entitled to a 30-minute break. Then she goes to another appointment in the afternoon.
    The worker must be paid at least the minimum wage for the time at the appointments, plus the travel time to and from the office. The break at the office doesn’t count towards her minimum wage calculation.

    https://www.gov.uk/minimum-wage-diff...-work/overview


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    https://www.carersuk.org/

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    So just out of interest the day this happened was it your last client or were you supposed to go to the next one?
    Asking as you reported this did they get someone to cover your next call?
    They know full well decent carers and there are some that are not. will not leave in a situation like this. All part of the social care system or lack of it, that needs a proper shake up and proper management.


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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    I'm on zero hours. I informed the office of the situation as soon as I knew I would be delayed. The
    office asked if I was staying - I didn't pick the text up until later as I was too busy tending to the client. She certainly didn't tell me to leave - just said she'd inform my next clients that I would be late. She then asked me to 'pop' back to check on the client. When I asked her to put me on the system for my return visit, which lasted two hours, she declined. I didn't expect to get paid for all the time I remained with the client on the second visit - just for the normal 30 min.

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    They did not offer to cover the next calls, just to tell them I'd be late. Fortunately the next two calls were flexible for reasons I won't go into now.
    Basically, my schedule was (times are approximate):
    8.15 - 8.45am first client A
    9.10 - 10.10am client B
    10.30 11.30am client C
    6.00pm - 6.30pm first client A - so I would have had an approximate five hour break between seeing my first client in the morning and the same client in the evening.

    I ended up with the first client for two hours - only being paid for 30min. If I had not stayed she would have ended up in hospital.
    I was asked to 'pop' back to check on her - the office knew I had a massive gap between my last morning call and evening call.
    I returned around two - had obviously run late on my other two clients - and ended up staying until gone 4pm. The client still had diarrhoea and her blood sugars were up the creek (diabetic, cancer and amputee). I stayed for the duration.
    I had asked the office to give me a log in slot when I 'popped' back. I was told they cannot bill the clients willy-nilly. When I phoned to question this, the controller said she meant for me to 'pop back' when I was there next! ie, she wanted me to return in my own time unpaid.
    I don't expect to be paid for all the time on my second visit (even though, morally, I know I should). But I do expect to be paid the full two hours in the morning, 30 min for the so-called 'pop-in' and my normal 30 minutes for the evening. The 'pop-in' visit ran on and so must be considered part of the early evening call surely. The client would support me.
    Heartbroken and stressed.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    [QUOTE=Mary Connell;727592]They did not offer to cover the next calls, just to tell them I'd be late. Fortunately the next two calls were flexible for reasons I won't go into now.
    Basically, my schedule was (times are approximate):
    8.15 - 8.45am first client A
    9.10 - 10.10am client B
    10.30 11.30am client C
    6.00pm - 6.30pm first client A - so I would have had an approximate five hour break between seeing my first client in the morning and the same client in the evening.
    I ended up with the first client for two hours - only being paid for 30min. If I had not stayed she would have ended up in hospital.
    I was asked to 'pop' back to check on her - the office knew I had a massive gap between my last morning call and evening call.
    I returned around two - had obviously run late on my other two clients - and ended up staying until gone 4pm. The client still had diarrhoea and her blood sugars were up the creek (diabetic, cancer and amputee). I stayed for the duration.
    I had asked the office to give me a log in slot when I 'popped' back. I was told they cannot bill the clients willy-nilly. When I phoned to question this, the controller said she meant for me to 'pop back' when I was there next! ie, she wanted me to return in my own time unpaid.
    I don't expect to be paid for all the time on my second visit (even though, morally, I know I should). But I do expect to be paid the full two hours in the morning, 30 min for the so-called 'pop-in' and my normal 30 minutes for the evening. The 'pop-in' visit ran on and so must be considered part of the early evening call surely. The client would support me.
    Heartbroken and stressed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Last question: do I have any employment rights? I've only been working for the agency for seven months.

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    A few years ago, I did this job in the community. I lasted 6 months and went to work in a hospital as an HCA instead. The agency were happy for me to work from 7am until 10pm, no pay for travel time and usually impossible to do what was required in the time allotted. I could be out for 12 hours and get paid for 8.
    Work in a hospital is hard and stressful sometimes but at least you get paid fairly well for what you do, there is always plenty of bank work if you want extra hours also.

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    Thanks m'dear. I think that's the way I shall have to go for my own sake. Trouble is, I love my 'clients' - they are no longer 'clients' to me, but dear friends. You know how it is. If you see someone four times a day for six days a week then it makes it so hard to say goodbye and leave them to the mercy of a cruel and inadequate system. Plus, there is a point of principle at stake. X

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    The big problem is that this sector is not unionised - I rarely meet colleagues face-to-face even. So many, many co-workers are from Eastern Europe. This issue will really blow-up in society's face post-Brexit when there simply will not be sufficient people willing to work below minimum wage and on such poor terms and conditions. A problem exacerbated by the ageing demographic of this country.

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    Default Re: Domiciliary care workers: below minimum wage

    Did you see the lady Cathy who faced the PM in an Oxford market? I`m angry because I don`t have a carer lady? There are thousands not in the most desperate need who won`t get help if they can manage to shove a ready meal n the microwave.
    And the reason why thousands of elderly are `bed blocking` is because the sector just doesn`t have enough carers and can`t keep the ones they`ve got. Why would anyone have this stress and clean up **** for peanuts if they can sit on a till for more money? It is a scandal and a tragedy.

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