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Thread: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

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  1. #1
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    Default Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Good morning,

    i am in a bit of a mess and require some help if possible,

    I have received a court form N1SDT, for an overdraft that becomes statute barred in December of this year, I know this court form means that statute barred is no longer an option.

    The amount is for approx £4500 this includes court costs.

    The particulars of the case:

    The Claimant Claims payment of the overdue balance due from Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s)and LloydsTSB. Dated on or about <<DATE I OBTAINED MY ACCOUNT>> and assigned to the Claimat on Nov 20 2013.

    PARTICULARS a/c no: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    DATE ITEM VALUE
    10/02/2014 Default Balance £xxxx.xx
    Post Refrl Cr NIL
    Total £xxxx.xx

    Rather than getting a CCJ I would be willing to pay a final settlement, of around 50% however im uncertain if this will be accepted/ A CCJ would make it very difficult for me in the future and need to avoid this as much as possible.

    I am willing to fight it however I dont have a clue how I go about this, what defence I would use etc... and how I would offer a final settlement etc...

    Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Hi fuqex, welcome to LB

    Acknowledge the claim asap.
    Failure to do so will probably result in a default CCJ.
    We suggest you defend in full for the time being. (You can always change your mind later).
    If you live in England/Wales, do not contest jurisdiction. (I'm guessing it was issued via MCOL).
    Do not enter anything in the 'Defence' dialogue box.

    Then send a CPR 31.14 request to the Claimant's solicitors, asking for the contract, the Notice of Assignment and the Deed of Assignment. (See example, top of this thread).

    & send a SAR to Lloyds for all the data they hold on this account.
    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...quest-template

    It is best to get as much info as possible before entering into negotiation, & any offers should be clearly headed 'Without Prejudice Save As To Costs'; this should avoid admission of liability for legal purposes.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

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    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Hi,

    Sorry If I sound thick, however do I need to include the following in my CPR3.14

    For your information and records I enclose a copy of the formal request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to this claim, pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which has been posted to your client with the statutory fee of £1 today, XX XXXX 201X.

    And a postal order for a £1, to cover this.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    No, scrub that.
    & no fee is payable.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Thanks for your help so far,

    The letters should be received by the court, bank and solictors now... sent them all recorded delivery 1st class to arrive today.

    Do I just await a responce now from the solictors and bank???

    How long have I got to place a defence is it 28 days from receiving my letter to state I will be defending.

    Cheers.

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by fuqex View Post
    How long have I got to place a defence is it 28 days from receiving my letter to state I will be defending.

    Cheers.
    33 days from the issue date on the claim form xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is kati@legalbeagles.info
    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

    Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    HI,

    I decided to send the form to the county court rather than online, I didn't enter anything into the defence section of the claim.

    I have however received another letter from the court stating the following:

    With reference to your claim responce. I would like to advise that it is herewith returned to you as invalid as it has not been completed fully.

    Please give reasons for disputing the claim in section 3 of the N9B defence form.

    As you have a limited time to reply to the claim form, you may wish to ensure the defence is amended and returned promptly.

    If you do not complete this form correctly within the prescribed time, the Claimants or their Solicitors may enter Judgement against you in default.

    If you require any further information please contact our helpdesk on the number above.
    etc... etc..

    I was wondering if I could obtain advise on the following:

    1/ How long have I got now to respond to this letter, it was initially marked as 5th, this letter now has the 15th.
    2/ What do I enter in section 3 of the court papers I have recevied, to state I am awaiting further information from the bank and solicitors.
    3/ Should I be better completing this online rather than via the post.

    I am stuck on what to do and any help would be very much appreciated as I know time is running out now.

    Kind regards

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by fuqex View Post
    HI,

    I decided to send the form to the county court rather than online, I didn't enter anything into the defence section of the claim.

    I have however received another letter from the court stating the following:

    With reference to your claim responce. I would like to advise that it is herewith returned to you as invalid as it has not been completed fully.

    Please give reasons for disputing the claim in section 3 of the N9B defence form.

    As you have a limited time to reply to the claim form, you may wish to ensure the defence is amended and returned promptly.

    If you do not complete this form correctly within the prescribed time, the Claimants or their Solicitors may enter Judgement against you in default.

    If you require any further information please contact our helpdesk on the number above.
    etc... etc..

    I was wondering if I could obtain advise on the following:

    1/ How long have I got now to respond to this letter, it was initially marked as 5th, this letter now has the 15th.
    2/ What do I enter in section 3 of the court papers I have recevied, to state I am awaiting further information from the bank and solicitors.
    3/ Should I be better completing this online rather than via the post.

    I am stuck on what to do and any help would be very much appreciated as I know time is running out now.

    Kind regards

    Hi there

    im not sure why the Court returned the papers, but if the court return your acknowledgment of service then you will need to refile it urgently, either on line or by email or post.

    You have 14 days from the date of service of the claim form, if you acknowledge the claim t hen you get a further 14 days giving a total of 28 days to file your defence, however the best way to work it out is like @Kati said, take the date on the claim form and add 33 days to get the date for your defence.

    If i can be of any further help just shout.
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.



    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    My fear though is that they may decline it again if i dont put a defence as i only have a few days. Would i be better of doing it online then calling to ensure its accepted. Or should i put an actual defence now to ensure its not declines, i dont want to miss the deadline.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by fuqex View Post
    My fear though is that they may decline it again if i dont put a defence as i only have a few days. Would i be better of doing it online then calling to ensure its accepted. Or should i put an actual defence now to ensure its not declines, i dont want to miss the deadline.
    If you have a printer and scanner you can E-file the defence with the CCBC ( assuming thats the Court youre dealing with) as the CCBC can take defences by email too
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.



    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Claim responses & directions:
    ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Thanks for the help so far.

    Do you know what I should enter as a defence, theyre basing it on an overdraft for an old current account, stating a contract.

    Im unsure on what to enter as a defence i have requested to view the documents and awaiting a responce from the solicitor.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by fuqex View Post
    Thanks for the help so far.

    Do you know what I should enter as a defence, theyre basing it on an overdraft for an old current account, stating a contract.

    Im unsure on what to enter as a defence i have requested to view the documents and awaiting a responce from the solicitor.

    Thanks
    If its an overdraft, then it may be open to challenge the terms of the contract as being unfair. Have a read of the case of Foster Burnell v Lloyds bank to give you an idea

    You may also be able to plead an unfair relationship under s140A Consumer Credit Act 1974
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.



    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Depends whether the O/D post dates 2012 as after that date it is a regulated running account agreement though still exempt from Part V CCA 1974. I e was it annually renewed? It could have been started say 10 years ok but if it was renewed at all any date post dating 2012 is relevant
    I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by pt2537 View Post
    If its an overdraft, then it may be open to challenge the terms of the contract as being unfair. Have a read of the case of Foster Burnell v Lloyds bank to give you an idea

    You may also be able to plead an unfair relationship under s140A Consumer Credit Act 1974
    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna C View Post
    Depends whether the O/D post dates 2012 as after that date it is a regulated running account agreement though still exempt from Part V CCA 1974. I e was it annually renewed? It could have been started say 10 years ok but if it was renewed at all any date post dating 2012 is relevant

    Taking this issue as an example, at what point, in your opinion, would a court case involving complex argument be deemed unsuitable for SCT?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    From my experience the consumer credit act and its regulations and FSMA is such a complex area of law it is difficult for an untrained LIP to firstly identify all breaches and secondly articulate it in pleadings and at court. They are also up against claimants with deep pockets who can put forward barristers etc on the day.

    There is no equality of arms in the small claims court for the LIP in consumer credit act claims.

    I think the CPR rules should be amended so CCA money claims have to be issued using the Consumer Credit Act procedure as in Hire Purchase claims so that the claimant had to demonstrate to the court that it had complied with its statutory obligations under the Consumer Credit Act and that they are entitled lawfully to enforce the agreement
    I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna C View Post
    From my experience the consumer credit act and its regulations and FSMA is such a complex area of law it is difficult for an untrained LIP to firstly identify all breaches and secondly articulate it in pleadings and at court. They are also up against claimants with deep pockets who can put forward barristers etc on the day.

    There is no equality of arms in the small claims court for the LIP in consumer credit act claims.

    I think the CPR rules should be amended so CCA money claims have to be issued using the Consumer Credit Act procedure as in Hire Purchase claims so that the claimant had to demonstrate to the court that it had complied with its statutory obligations under the Consumer Credit Act and that they are entitled lawfully to enforce the agreement

    So near the truth/requirements - Joe for PM.

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    But if the consumer credit act procedure was used although it would halt the many thousands of default judgment being obtained without the creditor not having to provide any evidence of regulatory compliance it doesn't assist in evaluating uneforceability itself . No one case is the same and with creditors relying on "reconstituted " documents the "devil is in the detail".

    I have also found that assigned debts ( whether regulated by the CCA or not regulated) are often successfully defended on no evidence debt assigned. But again it is for different reasons and involve increasinglycomplex arguments.
    I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    In other words it is not as Claimant solicitors like to say on directions questionnaires "only a debt claim for money".
    I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    trouble with the regulation in the UK , no straight yes/no

    they are drafted as gobbly gook = and never a definative direction - too many ifs/buts/maybe, T&Cs well so Is/Ts far beyond straight forwardness.

    No wonder the country and its regulations (heaped to-gether) is a mess at times, you need a legislation to form a legislation,

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna C View Post
    In other words it is not as Claimant solicitors like to say on directions questionnaires "only a debt claim for money".
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE770 View Post
    trouble with the regulation in the UK , no straight yes/no

    they are drafted as gobbly gook = and never a definative direction - too many ifs/buts/maybe, T&Cs well so Is/Ts far beyond straight forwardness.

    No wonder the country and its regulations (heaped to-gether) is a mess at times, you need a legislation to form a legislation,
    I guess that "if it was easy, they'd all be doing it!"
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    I guess that "if it was easy, they'd all be doing it!"
    pity they do not do it right in the 1st place, remember decades ago some reason I had interpret USA letter to UK english for officers orders, (spelling differences), and reverse for ease of reference..lol

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Quote Originally Posted by fuqex View Post
    HI,

    I decided to send the form to the county court rather than online, I didn't enter anything into the defence section of the claim.

    I have however received another letter from the court stating the following:

    With reference to your claim responce. I would like to advise that it is herewith returned to you as invalid as it has not been completed fully.

    Please give reasons for disputing the claim in section 3 of the N9B defence form.

    As you have a limited time to reply to the claim form, you may wish to ensure the defence is amended and returned promptly.

    If you do not complete this form correctly within the prescribed time, the Claimants or their Solicitors may enter Judgement against you in default.

    If you require any further information please contact our helpdesk on the number above.
    etc... etc..

    I was wondering if I could obtain advise on the following:

    1/ How long have I got now to respond to this letter, it was initially marked as 5th, this letter now has the 15th.
    2/ What do I enter in section 3 of the court papers I have recevied, to state I am awaiting further information from the bank and solicitors.
    3/ Should I be better completing this online rather than via the post.

    I am stuck on what to do and any help would be very much appreciated as I know time is running out now.

    Kind regards
    It would seem to me that if the court is saying "Please give reasons for disputing the claim in section 3 of the N9B defence form" and " As you have a limited time to reply to the claim form, you may wish to ensure the defence is amended and returned promptly" that you have not filed an Acknowledgment of Service you have actually filed the Defence Form which is N9B.


    Because the court hasn’t yet served it on the other side they are giving you the opportunity to file a correct defence before the deadline. Under the CPR rules a party can amend a statement of case (defence), without the need for either consent or the courts permission, if it hasn’t been served on the other side. The court has not yet sent the claimant a copy it would seem.


    As you haven’t acknowledged service but you have filed a defence you cannot have the extra 14 days.
    As such for safety I think it prudent that you send the court a defence within 19 days of the claim issue date (14 days plus 5 for service).
    I am a solicitor who specialises in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. A leading case of mine Carey v HSBC Bank plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (High Court) set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with section 77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

    Thanks,

    I have spoken with the court, it seems I may have made a bit of a mistake... being a newbie.

    I sent the acknowledgement, which they received and actioned, I have until 7th June to send a defence, I however sent the defence part also without completing the defence section and this is what was being refereed to.

    I shall await now a responce from the banks / solicitors towards my claim.

    Thanks again

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    Default Re: Recevied a court claim, require help for O/D debt

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