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Thread: Respond or not respond to PCN?

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  1. #1
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Hi,

    My Mum received a PCN the other day and she's asked me if she should ignore it or respond to it.

    Please see attached PCN and photo of parking sign where she parked.

    Any advice would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks

    Rich
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mum's parking notice.jpg   Parking sign.jpg  

  2. #2
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Definitely worth appealing ... I'll tag @mystery1 @Gevans67 who should be able to assist xx
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  3. #3
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Thanks Kati

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    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Was there a ticket on the windscreen? If not then they have failed to comply with POFA to be able to transfer liability to the driver. The Notice to Keeper needs to be delivered within 14 days if there was no windscreen ticket.

    You mum writes back to the Parking Company, AS THE REGISTERED KEEPER, stating that they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA, specifically, but not limited to, delivering the Notice to Keeper within 14 days. They cannot now hold the keeper liable and no further communication is expected other than to confirm that no further action will be taken and your details will be removed from their records. Take this request for removal as notice under section 10 of the DPA and a response is required within 21 days.

  5. #5
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    That's great.....thanks so much ostell. I'll draft the response for her to send on.

    Many thanks for your help.

    Richard

  6. #6
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Post up your response for critique before sending.

  7. #7
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Here is the draft below.....is it ok?

    Ref: PCN - 1277936212

    To Whom it may concern,



    As the registered keeper of PN13 xxx I refer to the above PCN which I received on xx-xx-xxxx


    I understand from the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 that you have failed to comply with the requirements, specifically, but not limited to, delivering the Notice to Keeper within 14 days.


    Due to this fact, no further communication is expected other than to confirm that no further action will be taken and my details will be removed from your records.


    Take this request for removal as notice under section 10 of the DPA and a response is required within 21 days.




    Yours Sincerely

  8. #8
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Hi there,

    I didn't get a response to the last post so my Mum just posted it as above (albeit a little late!).

    She has now had a reply (please see attached).

    Would be interested to hear your thoughts on how to respond?

    Many thanks

    Richard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mums parking respnse to her 1st letter.jpg  

  9. #9
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    One response, as the keeper, pointing out that the last letter was not an appeal it was merely pointing out that there cannot be any keeper liability as they have failed to comply with POFA and any further letters, from whatever source, will be treated as unjustified harassment. You expect confirmation within 14 days that the matter is now closed.

    After that just ignore until such time as you get a letter before claim.

  10. #10
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Ok great. Thanks for the advice ostell.

    All the best

    Richard

  11. #11
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Hi,

    My Mum has now received the letter before action letters (please see attached).

    Advice on what to do from here would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks

    Richard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mum's letter before action letter 1.jpg   Mums parking LBA 2.jpg   Mums parking LBA 3.jpg   Mums parking LBA 5.jpg   Mums parking LBA 6.jpg  

  12. #12
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Hi Ostell,

    Just wondered if you got a chance to look at my last post?

    Should we reply or ignore the letter before claim?

    Many thanks

    Richard

  13. #13
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    There's quite a lot of paper.
    Could be useful in an emergency, I reckon.

    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  14. #14
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Haha .......so should we just ignore it then?

  15. #15
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Have you ID'd who was driving at the relevant time?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  16. #16
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Don't ignore a letter before claim. Point them back to your first letter stating that they have failed in POFA to hold the keeper liable.

  17. #17
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Thanks Ostell, She has replied with the following....

    "To Whom it may concern,

    In response to your letter before action dated 24-07-2017.


    As the registered keeper of XXXX XXX, I refer you back to my original response dated xx-xx-xxxx which states you have not complied with the POFA act 2012 and therefore have no claim.


    You have ignored my request to remove this notice under section 10 of the DPA, and you have continued to harass me with threatening letters.


    I expect confirmation within 14 days that the matter is now closed.


    Yours Sincerely,"

  18. #18
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    Have you ID'd who was driving at the relevant time?
    There was a reason for asking this.

    If the driver has been ID'd, or can be assumed by implication (on balance of probability), they can abandon PoFA & sue via common law contract breach.
    What would you reply in court to a judge who asks "Were you (Defendant) the driver? If not you, who was?".
    That is what a judge asked in a hearing last week.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  19. #19
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    We haven't ID'd the driver yet. If it goes to court and it has to be sworn under oath, then I guess at that point they win their right to extort money under the current legal system!

  20. #20
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeye View Post
    We haven't ID'd the driver yet. If it goes to court and it has to be sworn under oath, then I guess at that point they win their right to extort money under the current legal system!
    Nope!
    There is no requirement to ID the driver, even in court.
    The judge cannot force the issue either.
    I was at that hearing (as a McK Friend helper).
    We stuck to our guns, made the other party's legal rep confirm that they were pursuing the Defendant as registered keeper, not driver, & then trashed the Notice to Keeper.
    The judge was seething, but could not do anything but dismiss the claim.
    It was scary, but worthwhile in the end.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  21. #21
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Btw, in one of the cases referred to in that draft witness statement (Vine v Waltham Forest), there was never any dispute as to whether Ms Vine was the driver at the time.
    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2000/106.html

    But you will want to confine your argument to the *transfer of liability to the registered keeper via PoFA, 'cos then you can point to the defective NtK.

    *PoFA 2012 Schedule 4(5)
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  22. #22
    Redeye's Avatar

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    Default Re: Respond or not respond to PCN?

    Great info. It's good to know you still won that case.

    Thanks for the advice

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