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Thread: Arrow global v Conkers12

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  1. #1
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Arrow global v Conkers12

    Received a claim, I received a court form for a debt that was defaulted in 2008, I presumed that the debt was statute barred given it was from 2008. Given that I presumed the debt was statute barred I sent a defense in full using the moneyclaim website stating "The outstanding debt is statute barred under the Limitation Act
    1980. The creditor is breaching the Financial Conduct Authority
    (FCA) rules as indicated in the FCA Consumer Credit Sourcebook." I then found out that statuory bared is based on when the last payment was made. I checked my bank statements and I was paying a token payment until April 2013, Im now fearing that the debt is legal and enforceable. I have read the getting started section of the forum and I will be sending the CCA request and the CPR request. I would like to know what the best cause of action is if the debt is legal and enforceable. I do not want a CCJ on my account as I have spent the last six years with a poor credit history. Is there a template letter to settle the debt, would a reduced offer usually get accepted and how do i go about this?
    Issue Date: 02 May 2017
    Amount approx: 5401.54
    Claimant: Arrow Global Limited
    Solicitor: ShooSmiths llp
    Original Creditor: HSBC
    Particulars of Claim: The claimant's claim is for the sum of £5401.54 monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement between the defendant and HSBC plc
    (NO) and assigned to the claimant on 13/05/2014, notice of which has been passed provided to the defendant
    The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
    The claimant claims the sum of £5401.54
    C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.
    Is the debt Statute Barred?
    List any letters you have sent: N/A
    Last edited by conkers12; 6th May 2017 at 21:12:PM.

  2. #2
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    on line application credit card>? sent defence??? not a good start! sure help will be on its way??

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Diana M

  3. #3
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Hi, Mike. Im not sure what you mean by online application card, the debt was for a personal loan. I used the moneyclaims website a bit hasty as i was almost sure that the debt was barred. Can i amend my defense?

  4. #4
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    that was the question on line credit card etc???? so a loan on line . SB is 6 years england/wales 5 years scotland. so as you say been making token payments to 2013 , sure others will advise how to do an amended defence from now on check on here for advice on the next proceedure, as major mistakes can be disastrous/fatal await the others in the know how to deal with this.
    @Diana M @rob

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  6. #6
    pt2537's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE770 View Post
    that was the question on line credit card etc???? so a loan on line . SB is 6 years england/wales 5 years scotland. so as you say been making token payments to 2013 , sure others will advise how to do an amended defence from now on check on here for advice on the next proceedure, as major mistakes can be disastrous/fatal await the others in the know how to deal with this.
    @Diana M @rob
    Hi,

    On the point about amending your defence, this may be possible if the opponents will consent to the amendments. A party may amend his statement of case either with the consent of the parties, or with the permission of the Court. if the opponents do consent they may require you to pay their costs of and occasioned by the amendments, this will mean whatever costs become wasted would be paid by you even if you won the case at trial.

    Of course the opponents may refuse, if they refuse unreasonably then the Court can impose sanctions on them if their unreasonable refusal leads to an application to the Court which could have been avoided.

    On the question of limitation, this is not as straight forward as some think. If however you made a payment in 2013 then it is unlikely limitation has expired in this matter
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.



    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


  7. #7
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Thanks for advice Mike. Hopefully it's not fatal

  8. #8
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Hi pt, do you have any advice on how would go about settling the debt rather than seeing it through. I'm going to wait until I receive the cca and cpt, but if these are all legit will I be able to make offers to settle and will they likely accept?

  9. #9
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Quote Originally Posted by conkers12 View Post
    Hi, Mike. Im not sure what you mean by online application card, the debt was for a personal loan. I used the moneyclaims website a bit hasty as i was almost sure that the debt was barred. Can i amend my defense?
    When did you take out this HSBC loan (I see you defaulted in 2008)?

    Did you have any other financial products with the bank at the time such as an overdraft? HSBC had a habit of amalgamating accounts before sold on which can cause the debt purchaser problems when they come to litigate.

    The POC refer to the debt being a "regulated agreement" but don't specify whether it was a loan or credit card. They may not even know so no need to give them any clues.

    So send that s 77-79 CCA Request asap to Arrow with a copy to Shoosmiths when you send them your CPR 31.14 Request. If you refer to 's 77-79' you won't have let on it was a loan (s 77). No need to make life easy for them.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  10. #10
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Hi Diana, I did have an overdraft but the amount owed looks like it is just for the loan. I have the templates written up, will post on here later.

  11. #11
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Quote Originally Posted by conkers12 View Post
    do you have any advice on how would go about settling the debt rather than seeing it through. I'm going to wait until I receive the cca and cpt, but if these are all legit will I be able to make offers to settle and will they likely accept?
    Why not wait to see what happens next before throwing in the towel. I expect you're feeling spooked by comments pointing out your error (it's not SB) so time to think positive and consider your options. Most things are fixable.

    Amending your Defence will put you in a stronger position to negotiate a settlement if that's what you really want to do. If the Claimant informs the court that they intend to continue then you'll be sent a Directions Questionnaire where you can tick the box for free telephone Mediation.

    At the moment the Claimant might not know the debt isn't SB since there's no reference to last payment in their POC.

    If they do know then they might consider making an Application for a Summary Judgment to strike out your Defence on the basis it has no merit (because you've only pleaded SB).

    If you decide to make an offer now you must be very careful so it's not seen as admission of liability So head it Without Prejudice.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  12. #12
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Quote Originally Posted by conkers12 View Post
    Hi Diana, I did have an overdraft but the amount owed looks like it is just for the loan.
    Ah ha! I'm glad I asked that question

    The amount claimed might "look like" it relates to the loan only but you need to do your own research. So send a Subject Access Request to HSBC to get the full history of the loan and the bank account overdraft.

    The Transaction Log should show if they were amalgamated.

    If you stopped your token payments in 2013 and the account was assigned to Arrow in 2014 (according to the POC) that may mean that Arrow has no knowledge of when your last payment was made since it wasn't to them. They'll probably need to contact the original creditor for the information which may give you time to amend your Defence to reflect compliance (or not) with your CCA Request.

    You may be a bit behind the curve with this, but it's not over yet.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  13. #13
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    upward and forward ye go!

  14. #14
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Thanks for advice, I will get in contact with HSBC to get the transaction log. Will post any correspondence when I get them.

  15. #15
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Quote Originally Posted by conkers12 View Post
    Thanks for advice, I will get in contact with HSBC to get the transaction log. Will post any correspondence when I get them.
    SAR request?

  16. #16
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Just an update, I have sent off the SAR, CPT and CCA forms. Phoned the court about my defense needing amending and they said that I can send additional information for my defense to the court and they will send a copy to the solicitor's. Now just waiting for response's...

  17. #17
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Quote Originally Posted by conkers12 View Post
    Phoned the court about my defense needing amending and they said that I can send additional information for my defense to the court and they will send a copy to the solicitor's.
    Don't take legal advice from court staff who are not qualified to give it.

    You cannot just "send additional information" to the court who will send it on to the other party's solicitors.

    You will need to either make an Application for permission to amend your Defence or get consent to amend your Defence from the other side.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  18. #18
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    So I have the n244 form from the court will cost me £100.00 to amend. They did recommend that i submit the additional info and this would be seen by the judge. So i asked what would happen if they strike out my defense before I get the documentation off the solicitors and they said there is nothing stopping this. So the best option seems to be to amend and pay. Could someone advice what to put into this form as i have not received documentation from solicitors so i am unsure what my defense is.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  19. #19
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Any advice on this??

  20. #20
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Would really appreciate if i could get some advice on this letter that i received from shoosmiths. They have not sent any documents that i asked for and only state that i made a payment to the account, should i ask for further evidence. I have attached the letter

    @Diana M @rob
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #21
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    You state that you were making token payments.
    Would any/all of them have been £1 payments?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  22. #22
    conkers12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Arrow global v Conkers12

    Hi charitynjw,

    yes they were all £1.

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