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  1. #1
    Aircooled's Avatar

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    Exclamation self employed and re charges

    I was wondering if someone could help, i am currently self employed and contract out to a third party on behalf of a telecoms firm, i recently was informed some of my previous works were deemed unsatisfactory and was warned by the manager he was going to back charge me for them. I recieved no indication of cost or time scales for the re payment . as i run my own firm i should in theory have had a bill addressed to myself and come to a formal agreement with the said company for the money. But recieved nothing and as such have not had my pay now for three weeks amounting to just under 3k . This has left e in financial limbo and is causing a great strain on y self and my family life . could anyone give me some guidance as to what i should do as the next step at all...


    Many Thanks

  2. #2
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    So who are you actually working for? The Telecoms firm or the third party? Have you got a contract to define your work?

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    tagging @Ula @mariefab xx
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  4. #4
    Aircooled's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    we were brought on by the third part to undertake works for the subcontractor who has a contract with the telecoms supplier , and as such have not been issued a contract of works .

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    I'm not sure about your setup here. So, a few questions if you don't mind.

    1. Do you get jobs/tasks from the subcontractor (that has a contract with the Telecoms supplier?

    2. Who does the manager doing the back charge work for? Telecoms supplier or subcontractor?

    3. How do you usually get paid? Do you invoice the subcontractor each month?

    4. When you say you're self-employed; what do you mean?

  6. #6
    Aircooled's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    Quote Originally Posted by mariefab View Post
    I'm not sure about your setup here. So, a few questions if you don't mind.

    1. Do you get jobs/tasks from the subcontractor (that has a contract with the Telecoms supplier?

    2. Who does the manager doing the back charge work for? Telecoms supplier or subcontractor?

    3. How do you usually get paid? Do you invoice the subcontractor each month?

    4. When you say you're self-employed; what do you mean?
    1.i recieve job packs to complete as and when the previous has been completed .

    2. he works for the firm i am contracted to

    3.i fill in a online system and also use to do time sheets, but it has gone from hourly too piece work.

    4.we are entities so they pay our tax and we sort out our ni .

  7. #7
    Ula's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    Sorry I am still struggling to understand your arrangement and have more questions to add to those you have answered for @mariefab

    1. Do you submit an invoice to the contractor for the work that you have done against which you get paid?
    2. Why does the contractor pay your tax if you are self-employed?
    3. Are you trusted to do the work yourself as long as the final product is up to the required standard?
    4. If you had come to an agreement about the work not being to standard and the sum to be repaid would you have issued a credit note to the contractor for the agreed amount?
    5. When you say you have not been paid for the last 3 weeks do you mean that you have submitted invoices for your work but they have not been paid yet? Do you have payment terms detailed on your invoice?
    I do my best to provide good practical advice, however I do so without liability.
    If you have any doubts then do please seek professional legal advice.


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    Aircooled's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Ula View Post
    Sorry I am still struggling to understand your arrangement and have more questions to add to those you have answered for @mariefab

    1. Do you submit an invoice to the contractor for the work that you have done against which you get paid?
    2. Why does the contractor pay your tax if you are self-employed?
    3. Are you trusted to do the work yourself as long as the final product is up to the required standard?
    4. If you had come to an agreement about the work not being to standard and the sum to be repaid would you have issued a credit note to the contractor for the agreed amount?
    5. When you say you have not been paid for the last 3 weeks do you mean that you have submitted invoices for your work but they have not been paid yet? Do you have payment terms detailed on your invoice?

    Hi we use to submit time sheets which we charged by the hour at a rate set out by them.
    I was on the cis scheme so the 20% was deducted on the pay run.

    Yes we were trusted to do the works to a set product which we had basic training on and that altered all the time .

    We had come to no agreement and I was told that he was going to recharge me back . I received no documents to state how much it was and if I agreed to the payment deduction.

    Yes I have submitted online invoices which is run on a system they have put in place . We have no payment terms online it is just a declaration as to what we have done work wise for that period

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Ula's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    Have you gone back and asked the manager to confirm the recharge and to ask why you have not had your pay for the last 3 weeks? If not I suggest that may be a good place to start.
    I do my best to provide good practical advice, however I do so without liability.
    If you have any doubts then do please seek professional legal advice.


    You can’t always stop the waves but you can learn to surf.

    You are braver than you believe, smarter than you think and stronger than you seem.

  10. #10
    meellis's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    The only time I had a contractor do something like this too me I reduced the work I did for them. This turned out to be the correct decision because the contractor (all MOD contracts) had under-priced to get the contracts and ended up going bust for £74milloin. I would make sure all paperwork is in place and try to research how financially sound the main contractor is before carrying out more work and potentially losing a fortune. Is it a coincidence that the timing is around year end? For accounting purposes you need an invoice from the contractor for and charges and I take it you get statements for the CIS deductions.

  11. #11
    ostell's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    This sounds like it is employment masking itself as self employed in order to reduce costs as the client is pulling all the strings.

  12. #12
    meellis's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    Welcome to self employment in the construction industry Ostell but maybe also the future for many people. In my experience the larger firms have the greater flexibility when it comes to admin and to many of us smaller firms look at the amount of work and don't pay enough attention to how much we are covered by paperwork. The larger firms take advantage and know that when things are questioned there is no contract terms to fall back on. By rights the jobs required should be detailed enough so if mistakes are made it can be determined who by. If you have completely followed instruction then you are less likely to be blamed fro under performing, in any case should at least be offered the chance to right any wrongs if they are down to you. This should be the case especially if you are still contracted.
    By the way , if anybody is interested in status of employed people at the moment there is an interesting case and subsequent challenges between Pimlico plumbers and one of there ex employees.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    I've had to deal with attempts by employers to class employees as self employed. The OP is saying it is paid as piece work, and the next job is only given when the previous is completed. Is CIS really relevant here? It's certainly not construction when you can, sort of, take the work home.

  14. #14
    meellis's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    CIS is a tricky area that everyone seems to have a different opinion on, what is construction, what is maintenance or (in this case) is telecoms within construction. Another issue that seems to arise is whether it is a trade that the contractor carries out or is it a separate trade to the contractor. As for un-satisfactory work, in what definition, poor overall quality, not to spec, sub standard materials the list is endless and should be explained and remedies discussed. The fact that work has carried on makes question how sub-standard it is, anybody contracted to me wouldn't be allowed to carry on if there was a question about there standards. When similar happened to me the suddenly tried to introduce a remittance to be withheld for 12 months, I realised I didn't have any contract to protect me so I luckily didn't except work from them anymore and only ended up losing around £400. When I got a list of creditors from the insolvency firm I realised how lucky I was when I saw the amount of one man bands waiting for thousands, in some cases 10's of thousands. The recent case of Pimlico plumbers and there former worker highlights that there isn't just employed or self employed anymore but there is also a category of working for. The former employee claimed unfair dismissal but Pimlico claimed he was self employed. It turns out the worker was invoicing Pimlico through Pimlico system per job and was responsible for his own tax and VAT.as if he was self employed. The crux of the argument though was the fact that he could only do Pimlico work, had to wear Pimlico uniform and use their van and phone, and could not sub-contract the work to others. So basically he is working for pimlico without any of the benefits of employment, welcome to the gigeconomy.

  15. #15
    BrightSpark606's Avatar

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    Default Re: self employed and re charges

    Hi aircooled, did this get sorted out?

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