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  1. #1
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    Question ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Hello I'm Chris

    I would very much appreciate some knowledgeable advice on our situation.

    We have had a "Notice to Keeper" and a letter before county court claim, as we mistakenly thought that you could still ignore these ridiculous excessive parking charges and they would go away, eventually.

    I have been reading up all day on this and there is a huge amount of info out there.

    But specifically I would like advice about detail. On the notice to keeper it lists the parking as Re: Bury New Road-Prestwich, but the actual car park is at Fairfax Road, both entrance and exit are at the same place on Fairfax Road. Fairfax Road is at a cross-roads with Bury New Road but the entrance, exit and car park are unequivocally on Fairfax Road.

    Can someone please confirm (or deny) that this could/should be grounds for disregarding the excess parking charge in its entirety as never being correctly issued against correct timings with regards to POFA schedule 4 as they have never given the correct location of the land as in section 9(2) below.

    9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
    (2)The notice must
    (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates

    We would then write/email ParkingEye listing reason and asking them to cancel their charge.

    Please help/advise us if you can.
    Thanks
    Chris

  2. #2
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    It's subjective really. Will a judge look at the pcn, the operators contract and a map and say "well you know where it is" or will they say "you're right, wrong land no keeper liability, case dismissed"

    That question cannot be answered until the specific judge in a specific case actually speaks.

    I would submit that case law says when something needs to be specified then it needs to be pretty much exact. The Keeper may have never visited the car park in question.

    http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format...r)+AND+(swayne)

    "Here we are dealing with a statute which, for good and obvious reasons, requires a lender or owner to set out precisely what needs to be done to put right the alleged breach of contract. If a sum of money has to be paid it needs to be "specified". And if the figure given is more than the sum which the giver of the notice is entitled to demand, the notice, in my judgment, must be invalid. A similarly strict approach was taken in this court in relation to a preliminary notice under Case D of the Agricultural Holdings (Notice to Quit) Act 1977 in Dickinson v Boucher [1983] 269 EGLR 1159. But, as Mr Gruffyd points out, the words of the statute were very different. I do not, therefore, look to that authority for support in arriving at the conclusion to which I have already referred. "



    I would perhaps make a point like this to them at the same time as asking for disclosure of the PCN, Contracts etc in pre action correspondence.

    M1
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  3. #3
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    Default ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Hello I'm Chris

    I would very much appreciate some knowledgeable advice on our situation.

    We have had a "Notice to Keeper" and a letter before county court claim, as we mistakenly thought that you could still ignore these ridiculous excessive parking charges and they would go away, eventually.

    I have been reading up all day on this and there is a huge amount of info out there.

    But specifically I would like advice about detail. On the notice to keeper it lists the parking as Re: Bury New Road-Prestwich, but the actual car park is at Fairfax Road, both entrance and exit are at the same place on Fairfax Road. Fairfax Road is at a cross-roads with Bury New Road but the entrance, exit and car park are unequivocally on Fairfax Road.

    Can someone please confirm (or deny) that this could/should be grounds for disregarding the excess parking charge in its entirety as never being correctly issued against correct timings with regards to POFA schedule 4 as they have never given the correct location of the land as in section 9(2) below.

    9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
    (2)The notice must
    (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates

    We would then write/email ParkingEye listing reason and asking them to cancel their charge.

    Please help/advise us if you can.
    Thanks
    Chris

  4. #4
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Thank you so much for your very prompt response M1. I fully get what you're saying about subjective and individual judges.

    After reading the case you linked for me and your own comments, I do think that 9(2) is a very specific guide to be followed by the parking charge company with the word must and specific detail in stating the relevant land on which it was parked. Clearly they have not met this part of their remit.

    I think I will respond on those lines - I have just also read another guidance on "Parking Cowboy" that this submission does need to be entered after the Notice to Keeper has expired or they can legally issue an amended claim.

    Technicality -v- Unreasonable Excess Parking Charges

    Thanks again
    Chris

  5. #5
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    They need to issue a NTK within 14 days. (I presume this as you are mentioning para 9) so any NTK issued now would be out of time.

    So are you cehcking every detail in par 9 against what is in the NTK.?

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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Thanks for commenting @ostell, I will check through each section in Para 9 to see if there is anything else.
    @ostell / @mystery1 Are there any samples or templates that I could append my specifics to so as not to reinvent the wheel all be myself

    Further help is very much appreciated.
    Chris

  7. #7
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Can you post up the PCN and LBA (suitably sanitised).

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Hi M1

    We can't locate the original through the post PCN but these are the two letters we have had. The PE2 has a reverse (PE2a) and the PE1a is just a larger photo for ease.

    Thanks for helping
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PE1.jpg   PE1a.jpg   PE2.jpg   PE2a.jpg  

  9. #9
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Hi M1 @mystery1

    Sorry, forgot to tag you in this response yesterday - thank you in advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisWMS View Post
    Hi M1

    We can't locate the original through the post PCN but these are the two letters we have had. The PE2 has a reverse (PE2a) and the PE1a is just a larger photo for ease.

    Thanks for helping
    Chris

  10. #10
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Edit the letter in this quote to suit. The main purpose is to gather enough information to properly defend when a court claim follows. If they play funny buggers we can use that to make them look bad in court.



    I would reply something like

    Dear ParkingEye,

    I write in response to your letter before claim dated xxxxx 2017, the contents of which are noted.

    As the pre action protocols expect us to exchange sufficient information to understand each others position please forward to myself the original parking charge notice and a picture of the signs at the location as well as the operators contract which allows them to operate at the site (or indeed confirmation they own the land in question).

    As well as the information already requested please answer the following questions :-

    What type of car park is it ?

    What contravention gives a cause of action ?

    Who contravened your rules ?

    In what capacity are you pursuing me ?

    Have you followed the rules laid down in the Protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 ?

    How is the £x made up ?

    Not only will this information help comply with the pre action protocols it will also help achieve the over riding objective.

    Having done some research on your claims i request that if you ignore my requests for information that your claim complies with

    CPR 16

    Contents of the claim form
    16.2
    (1) The claim form must –
    (a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim

    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include –
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;

    Practice direction 16

    Other matters to be included in particulars of claim




    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.





    I await your response.

    Yours sincerely



    Send via email if possible.

    M1
    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: ParkingEye - Notice to Keeper - Wrong parking location

    Hi M1 @Mighty1

    I panicked a bit with the timings and cobbled a letter together from bits and bobs from this and other forums, in particular moneysavingexpert. I am expecting back a standard response letter and will use your input from here with more specifics and requests into that one.

    ParkingEyeLtd
    PO Box 565
    Chorley
    PR66HT



    Forthe attention of the signatory (no name given) @ ParkingEye LegalDepartment




    DearParkingEye Legal Department


    YourClaim reference

    Iacknowledge receipt of your letter before county court claim (LBCCC)dated 21 April 2017, received 25 April 2017.

    The allegeddebt mentioned in that correspondence is disputed in relation to yourdocumentation and any court proceedings will be vigorouslydefended.

    I have read the Ministry of Justice practicedirection and pre-action conduct and protocols. You have stated inyour LBCCC letter and “Further Information”, on the rear of thatletter are “fully compliant with the practice direction”, Istrongly dispute this statement and would say that it could beconstrued as being a deliberate attempt by ParkingEye to mislead therecipient.



    Irespectfully request that if you wish to continue with a CCC you senda revised concise LBCCC pertaining to this specific claim which doesfully comply with the requirements of Annex A Paragraph 2 of thePractice Direction on pre-action conduct.


    Afterreceiving this fully compliant LBCCC I will then seek advice andsubmit a formal response within 30 days, as is required by thepractice direction.


    Pleaseensure that this letter is actually read and responded to, providingthe information relating to the proposed county court claim that youintend to make against myself as the defendant to the proposed legalproceedings. I respectfully and specifically request that you don'tsend a generic FAQ letter in reply as to do so does not meet therequirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter nofurther forward.



    Arefusal to comply with the requests which have been made in linewith practice direction could result in a referral to the SolicitorsRegulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in theSRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

    Itrust this will not be necessary and await receiving a fullycompliant LBCCC in due course should you still wish to pursue thiscourse of action.



    Yoursfaithfully


    I'm sure I have probably done things wrong and may have put parts in too early but it is an acknowledgement and rejection response. I have sent today 1st signed for with proof of posting and it is tracked and I have also input the letter into their appeal system today, but have not requested it for appeal, I have noted that it is an acknowledgement of their LBCCC - the only way that I could contact them is through their appeal portal or in writing.

    Thanks again for your response and help M1, it is very much appreciated and will be excellent in the more detailed responses to them.

    If anything comes to mind that you think might be relevant I would very much like to be contacted.

    kind regards
    Chrisy

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