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  1. #1
    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default VT with Close Motor Finance

    Hello! Firstly I must start by saying what a fantastic forum with all the advice, letter templates and all round helpfulness.

    I have created this thread mainly to record my journey as I have just initiated the VT process on my vehicle and would obviously welcome any and all advice during the process.

    It's a 2011 Ford Focus with 79,000 miles on it on a standard HP agreement over 5 years, no annual mileage limitation that I'm aware of or documented in the agreement and no extra insurances etc. taken out. Didn't buy it new, had it 2.5 years.

    Because I drive a lot of miles for my job (didn't know it would be as much as it has turned out to be when I bought the vehicle), the mileage has crept up - although it seems the average is 10-12k a year and working mine out for the age of the vehicle I'm averaging 13,250 a year, so not horribly over average.

    Car is in all round extremely good condition, full service history etc. Only complaint I would ever see anyone having is that there are some stone chips/marks on the front bumper & bonnet due to all the motorway driving but I have maintained these with touch up to the best of my ability. I would certainly consider these to be reasonable given the age of the vehicle and the mileage.

    So, I am at the halfway point time wise with the agreement and about £200-300 shy of the 50% total value figure stated on my agreement under the voluntary termination section. Got no issue paying that to get the balance where it needs to be.

    The reason I am choosing the VT option is that the vehicle is worth so much less than what I can hope to get for it and I have decided to switch in to another vehicle on an unlimited mileage lease. This is already in place and I am using the new vehicle already. Financially, the VT makes the most sense as otherwise I'm likely over £2k in the hole with the Focus.

    The Focus is no longer being used but is of course still insured taxed etc. I will be taking plenty of photographs as suggested and also copies of all documentation relating to servicing and the log book.

    I called my finance company yesterday (19.4.17) and informed that I would be exercising my option to VT the vehicle. The customer rep I was speaking with immediately responded with "so you want to voluntary surrender the vehicle?" to which I emphatically replied "No, I am going to be VT'ing the vehicle which is something different, I am not voluntarily surrendering".

    This was followed by some pushing from pillar to post while they tried to find me the correct person to speak with. I eventually landed with someone that informed me they would be sending a letter I needed to sign regarding condition of the vehicle and that I wished to VT and said the vehicle needed to be in reasonable condition, have service history etc. I'm guessing this is also the letter that will state I become liable for repairs to the vehicle if it's deemed to not be in 'reasonable' condition. I have no intention of signing this letter as I did read another thread where someone signed for the documentation bit and then crossed out and initialed the liability bit but got in to issues as lender and then Financial Ombudsman said they had defaced the document.

    I confirmed with this person the mailing address and also an email address for me to send my VT letter to and then the call ended amicably.

    I immediately used the template provided on the VT Termination-Your Rights thread and sent an email referencing that a letter would also be sent via signed for, and created a letter referencing the email already sent.

    Email was sent immediately giving yesterdays date as the date of the VT being in effect (19.4.17) and the letter was printed last night and will go signed for first class today.

    I have a couple of minor questions for clarity at this point:


    1. The normal monthly direct debit was due today - which I can see from my bank transactions they have collected, again, no issue with that from my perspective. This will leave my outstanding balance to them around the £200-300 mark. At what point do I/should I then cancel the Direct Debit? I would much rather pay any outstanding balance to them via cheque or bank transfer so I am in control. I am, however, concerned that if I cancel the DD that they will attempt to say I am defaulting on the loan with the usual mark on the credit file shenanigans then taking place.
    2. I have given 14 days from the date of the letter for them to contact regarding collection/drop off of the vehicle - is that calendar days or working days?
    3. With the letter they are supposed to be sending me - is it generally best to not sign it and send it back with another copy of my VT letter with inclusion of details they ask for other than liability bits? i.e. confirming condition of the vehicle, service history etc. I don't want to put my signature on any documentation I receive from them for the obvious reasons.


    I have to admit I'm quite nervous as I've never done anything like this before and it seems like the finance companies have a well documented history of messing people about when you read through the forums.

    So I thought I'd keep a log of my journey here for moral support and any advice I may need.

    Does it sound like I'm on the right track so far?

    P.S REALLY sorry for the long winded post.

  2. #2
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Hello,

    1. If you sent the email saying the agreement terminated effective immediately you can cancel the DD. If you put a specific date or number of days then the agreement will terminate on that day but if you have a payment due between that time then you must pay it. There is no harm in sending a cheque by post with a cover letter. It is difficult to really say what each lender will do as they are different. Some lenders will employ whatever underhand tactics they can including applying a default claiming you have defaulted but that can't be the case if the agreement is already terminated - I had issues with Santander on this and they eventually settled after I issued a claim against them. The remaining balance will be classed as a debt and although the CCA does not say that you must pay it before the agreement is terminated, it would be reasonable to think that following termination you pay it back either by instalments or in full within a reasonable period of time e.g. 14 days.

    2. It is generally accepted that unless you specify working/business days, it will be 14 calendar days.

    3. Why sign a letter confirming what you have already done? Again, the CCA does not impose any obligation to sign the lender's paperwork or documentation but to simply give notice to terminate. Lenders documents will normally say something along the lines of you agree to pay all damages, compensation etc. which are described in the damage report. If you sign it, they will use it against you and will no doubt create a whole bigger mess that you have to try and argue to get yourself out of - If you want the stress of all of that, feel free to sign their documents. Whilst the CCA says they can only recover compensation for goods returned in an unreasonable condition as opposed to all damages, it is simply not worth the hassle.

    Again, some lenders will refuse to take the car if the documents are not signed and this is where people panic. The law is on your side and if they refuse to collect on that basis that is entirely up to them, you simply play them at their own game by sending a further letter (floating around on here somewhere) that if they don't collect within the next X days, you will sell the car yourself at auction less any reasonable costs incurred. I bet you after receiving that letter they will be out pronto and it has worked quite well previously. Other ways lenders might try and catch you out is by asking you to sign a PDA or some other electronic device which they will then subsequently use to put onto another document and claim you agreed to pay for the damages, so be careful.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  3. #3
    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Thanks Rob - I appreciate you taking the time to respond - again, sorry for my lengthy posting.

    Brief update - wife just called me as a letter already arrived from CMF today following telephone call yesterday. I will have to look at it when I get home later but sounds like their stock letter they send out saying what will happen next. One thing that caught my ear was wife said although it states on top of letter 'Confirmation of Voluntary Termination' of agreement, in the body of the text in the letter it mentions voluntarily surrendering the vehicle.

    This has obviously set my alarm bells ringing but could it just simply be the vernacular they are using to indicate I'm voluntarily giving the vehicle back rather than it being repossessed? Apologies I can't be clearer at this time but I'll have a look later and update further.

    Q: If I look at the letter and it does not mention anywhere in any form about further charges, compensation for 'not reasonable condition' etc etc. i.e. is absolutely a straightforward letter outlining that I wish to VT and that we will arrange inspection collection on receipt of this signed letter along with logbook, keys, docs etc etc. - is there any harm in signing and sending beck to ensure procedure moves forward?

    I don't want to stall process by them getting in to the whole 'we won't collect if you don't sign' malarkey, even though I know I'll win that argument.

    Thanks - Andy

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    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    voluntarily giving the vehicle back rather than it being repossessed?
    Voluntary surrender has a whole different meaning to voluntary temination, it is sneaky of them but if you have already said your terminating under s.99 that will be deemed VT rather than VS. Nevertheless I'd be wary about signing something like that. VS means you hand the car back and they will sell the car, deduct the proceeds from the total amount remaining on the contract and you have to pay the remainder which is usually more than what you would pay under VT by some margin.

    I can't see no reason why there would be an issue but you need to read the documents carefully. Because I am a sceptic and wouldn't trust lenders as far as I could throw them, I would be safe than sorry
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Thanks Rob. I'm in total agreement with you but will reserve final judgement until I see the letter later.

    If in doubt, I shan't sign.

    Is it ok for me to call them to get a definitive sum to pay to achieve the 50% balance or should I just go on my own calculations and send them a check with covering letter?

  6. #6
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    It should be fine to contact them but do your own maths too and if it doesn't match up then challenge them as to how they have calculated it - they may be adding extra fees like collection on there.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Hi Rob, I've attached the letter I received from CMF. It seems fairly benign on the surface of it, just that one sentence on the return acknowledgment they want me to sign about voluntary surrender. Seeing as they give the option on the first page for me to send my own letter and/or email and I've done both - I wont be signing their version.

    VT Close Motor Finance (their version).pdf
    Last edited by woodbane; 21st April 2017 at 15:36:PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Right - figured out how to get redacted PDF uploaded properly - technology!

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Send the email confirmation that you are voluntarily terminating the agreement and then print it off and send it to them. Also keep that letter an hard copy of everything you have sent.

  10. #10
    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Quote Originally Posted by seduraed View Post
    Send the email confirmation that you are voluntarily terminating the agreement and then print it off and send it to them. Also keep that letter an hard copy of everything you have sent.
    Hi, thanks for your input - if you read my opening (and unfortunately, very long) post you'd have gathered I was straight in off the bat with an email and letter VT to CMF. I used the template from this site.

  11. #11
    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Quick update - spoke with the head of the collections department by telephone this afternoon.

    She was very polite and professional and straight away confirmed I did NOT need to sign the copy of 'their version' of a VT as they already had both my email and hard copy versions.

    I asked her to confirm how much balance I needed to pay to hit the 50% mark (I calculated I owed about £200) but she said I had hit the 50% mark and there was nothing left to pay. I asked her to confirm that in writing - and I'll keep chasing that until I get something confirming that either I've hit the 50%, or once the vehicle is returned that the account is closed.

    She said my case had been passed to the agents that deal with inspecting and collecting the car and they would be in touch within the next 2-3 days. She asked if the vehicle was fully operational, had a valid MOT, service history and was in good overall condition. She seemed far more concerned that it was mechanically sound than anything - I wonder if they get a lot of people VT'ing trying to hand back cars that really are in shitty condition?

    Anyway, I confirmed the vehicle is in all round excellent shape (which it is) and that was pretty much it. Very cordial and to the point.

    Let's hope the next stage goes as smoothly!

  12. #12
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Well that's a start and even better that you do not owe any more monies, and good idea to get it confirmed in writing which they can't go back on after that.

    The agents inspecting the car don't carry out an inspection into the mechanical soundness of the car, neither does Manheim (assuming it's them who do the final inspection) but more of a cosmetic inspection. The questions they ask are generic and will be a way to charge you if something is missing whether its the logbook or service manual or alleged missing spare tyre that was never there - of course whether the car is returned in a reasonable condition is always subjective hence the need to take photos both inside and out and not just close-ups which is what you will tend to see on the damage report as it may give a deceiving account of the car's overall look.

    If you are worried about anything then why not create a one page acknowledgement of receipt form. Title the document in bold as "Acknowledgement of Receipt" and at the top you could state something like the undersigned hereby acknowledges receipt of the said vehicle as described below and, having carried out an inspection of the vehicle, agrees that the vehicle is considered to be in a reasonable condition. Set out the car's make, model and registration number along with a signature line, print name and date.

    That way, if they say in the future that the car is not in a reasonable condition then you can refer them back and say the agent has signed the receipt form and confirmed that it was in a reasonable condition at the time - sneaky maybe, but play the lenders at their own game and you can explain to the agent you would like them to sign and print the receipt form for your records
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Thanks Rob,

    I'm now waiting for proof of my account standing and will send an email to them tonight reminding them of this as well as requesting the have the vehicle collection agents contact me ASAP to arrange for collection.

    Q: I am already driving my replacement vehicle and am required to show my proof of NCD by 8 May. Obviously I cannot get this while the current vehicle is still insured awaiting collection. I am hoping that the collection will take place in time to allow me to cancel the insurance and obtain this evidence before the date the new insurers have requested it by. If however, CMF drags it heels on the collection front, am I on solid ground if I SORN the vehicle and keep it on my driveway until collection? I would also be looking at transferring V5 in to their name at this point I assume? I would obviously be notifying them I am doing this.

    Many thanks.

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    If it is on your driveway which is private land then you should be fine to SORN the car as long as it is not parked on a public highway.

    I would suggest you perhaps write to them and notify them that you will be cancelling the insurance on X date which means if they do not come and collect it by then, they will need to arrange for their own insurance and tax and that the V5 is then changed into their name (although there is no harm in you doing it now as it may take a few days to transfer the name but also tell them you are doing this and use their address as listed on the agreement). You can notify the DVLA online at https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle

    If the DVLA do pick up the vehicle as not registered (and there are some dodgy people who will go and remove it from a drive claiming to be on a public highway) they will go after the registered keeper so you want to absolve any chance of you being liable or pursued by them.

    Will the current insurer not verify your 7 years in writing? Could you not then pass that to your new insurer and then confirm that as soon as the insurance is cancelled you will forward confirmation of 8 years NCB?
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    Will the current insurer not verify your 7 years in writing? Could you not then pass that to your new insurer and then confirm that as soon as the insurance is cancelled you will forward confirmation of 8 years NCB?
    Unfortunately not. I called them today and they said that a NCD cannot be used on two policies at the same time (which is quite correct) and so they would only provide me with the proof of NCD upon policy cancellation. The chap was very helpful and did say I could cancel by email and they would respond quickly via email with the cancellation letter and proof of NCD.

    I'll be giving CMF until the beginning of next week to get the collection sorted otherwise I shall follow the outline above.

    Thanks for your help and advice Rob, much appreciated.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    If it is on your driveway which is private land then you should be fine to SORN the car as long as it is not parked on a public highway.

    I would suggest you perhaps write to them and notify them that you will be cancelling the insurance on X date which means if they do not come and collect it by then, they will need to arrange for their own insurance and tax and that the V5 is then changed into their name (although there is no harm in you doing it now as it may take a few days to transfer the name but also tell them you are doing this and use their address as listed on the agreement). You can notify the DVLA online at https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle

    If the DVLA do pick up the vehicle as not registered (and there are some dodgy people who will go and remove it from a drive claiming to be on a public highway) they will go after the registered keeper so you want to absolve any chance of you being liable or pursued by them.
    Hi Rob,

    Quick clarifying question on the SORN process if I may.

    If I've switched registered keeper details to CMF before SORN, then does it matter if the vehicle is parked on a public road? I'd no longer be the registered keeper, or the owner so wouldn't all liability rest with CMF?

    It's only my last resort option really in case they mess around with collecting the vehicle. My plan is to give them until the end of this week to have contacted me regarding collection otherwise I will send letter as you recommended above stating that as of Friday next week the vehicle will have been transferred in to their name, insurance and tax canceled and SORN'd.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    I always suggest you should be seen to be reasonable and not too aggressive. You can decide to leave it on a public road if you change the name to CMF but you should also be reasonable and tell them what you are going to do and give them a reasonable opportunity to respond. Generally a 14 day window is considered a reasonable amount of time but sometimes longer depending on the facts. The longer they have taken to respond already to your request for collection then 14 days is likely to be a reasonable amount of time to arrange someone to collect.

    Otherwise I would keep it on your driveway and instead you could send a letter or email along the lines of the below. The below is a template which the law allows you to sell goods which have been abandoned. If you know who the owner is and you give them adequate time to recover the goods but fail to do so, you can then sell them but you must account for the proceeds and returned to the owner, less any costs involved.

    NOTICE OF INTENTION TO SELL GOODS UNDER THE TORTS (INTERFERENCE WITH GOODS) ACT 1977

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Agreement number:
    Vehicle Registration:

    I writing in in relation with the above matter and in connection with giving notice to voluntarily terminate my hire purchase agreement. Your vehicle is currently parked on my drive and despite a number of requests to arrange collection, you have so far refused to do anything about it. Your vehicle is no longer authorised to remain on my property and continued refusal to remove it will constitute a trespass. In particular, following my notice to terminate the agreement, a reasonable time was given time to collect the vehicle yet regrettably, this appears to have been ignored.

    In accordance with section 12 of the above Act, this letter is intended to give notice that unless the vehicle is collected by [14 DAYS FROM DATE OF LETTER] 2017, the vehicle will be deemed as abandoned and arrangements shall be made for it to be sold at the nearest auction and, I will not be liable for any losses suffered by you as a result of the vehicle being sold. I am lawfully entitled to deduct any costs associated with the sale of the vehicle including storage costs, in which case, a charge of £10 per day shall be levied (beginning on the day after the date of this letter) until the vehicle is removed and sold. Once the vehicle has been sold, I will contact you further to arrange for the remaining proceeds to be transferred to a bank account of your choosing.

    The vehicle is available for collection from my address at the head of this letter and I would suggest that you contact me on [NUMBER] to arrange a suitable time.

    I look forward to hearing from you by [DATE].
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Excellent - many thanks Rob. I did say 14 days in the original VT letter which will be next Friday.

    I may need to SORN and cancel insurance on it before then due to the NCD proof needed for my current insurance that I already mentioned above, but that can wait until toward the end of next week. I'll do the V5 transfer of ownership at the same time if it comes to that. I'd write to them and inform them of my intent to do so saying that by Friday next week it would no longer be insured, be SORN'd and V5 transferred but kept on my driveway awaiting collection. Then follow up with your letter if nothing happens in another week after that?

    It's early days yet - I'm just making sure I've got the information and know-how to pursue whichever avenue is most appropriate as time progresses.

    Again - many thanks for your valued input.

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    There's a number of ways you could go about it really, if you opt for removing the car from your drive then I would also mention the fact that the car no longer has permission to be on your drive and continued delay will constitute a trespass but nonetheless if they don't respond to collect before X date then you will remove it from your drive and park it on a public highway and name the street it is on - any liability resulting from a non-taxed or non-insured car will fall to them not you.

    They might argue that you have caused a trespass yourself by moving the goods when permission was not given by them but in law, it is a defence to merely move the car from one place to another without damaging it - so be sure to take photos again if it is moved to show the condition at the time.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    I had my VT car for a month after I picked up my new car. Insurance company let my keep the VT car insured as a temporary vehicle on the policy for 28 days. Didn't cost very much to do it and I had the piece of mind that if anything happened to the car it was covered. In fact with the GAP policy I would have been quids in if the car had suddenly exploded on the drive (which it didn't).

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Update:

    Received call from a company called Aston Berkley acting on behalf of Close Motor Finance - they are coming to collect the car tomorrow morning. Not overly convenient as I work but luckily I have enough flexibility in my job role to allow for me to change my day round a bit and be home tomorrow morning. On the plus side, it means the vehicle will be gone.

    I also received the email from CMF stating quite clearly that I have met the 50% mark on the agreement, in fact I'm £200 over but I'd rather have it that way so there's no quibble about not having paid enough.

    Will buy a paper in the morning and take lots of photos before they get here. Got a bundle for them with all paperwork (I've kept copies of all service records and of service book), keys etc.

    Regarding the photos - has anyone got an example of how best to get paper with date in every shot, I'm finding it hard to imagine how to do it and capture the condition of the vehicle accurately?

    I'll print out the one pager you've suggested Rob for the collecting agent to sign (if they will) and I certainly wont be signing any of their papers. I trust they are obliged to leave me a copy of the inspection they do even if I don't sign it?

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Good idea to keep all copies, just in case they suggest something that wasn't there when it was.

    Buying a newspaper is fine if you like, not done it myself but could imagine you looking quite awkward doing it so I presume just hold it close to the car and take the photo. An alternative is using an app on your phone which will time stamp the photos. I have used the following apps before:

    iPhone
    Photo Time Stamp: (https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/phot...982149783?mt=8
    very easy to use and can change the settings to show the date and time as well as how big the time stamp should be.

    Android
    Camera Timestamp Free: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...trial&hl=en_GB
    Again settings can be changed according to your preference and where the date and time should be placed on the photo.

    Personally, there is no real need to time stamp photos because there is EXIF data which is hidden within the photo when it is taken to show the date, time and if you use an iphone, the location of where the photo was taken (not sure about android) as well as the type of phone used to take the picture and other geeky information. Again, because us debtors have to bend over backwards to prove ourselves, it is much simper to ensure the photos are time stamped or take a photo with a newspaper to avoid any doubt.

    As for the report, if he doesn't give you it by all means ask for it and challenge him if he doesn't you ought to be entitled to a copy of the report. Perhaps don't hand the keys over until he does, although might be difficult if he is using a PDA device.

    p.s. make sure the font colour of the timestamp does not conflict with the background so it is not easily read e.g. white on white.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  23. #23
    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Ah, I'm glad you bought up about time stamping of photos as that was my original intent but then I wondered if they could allege you've somehow 'fiddled the date and time'.

    However, your point regarding EXIF data is very true and I don't believe this can be edited or if so, it's not very simple to do.

    Seeing as I think I'm going to feel a bit of an idiot trying to get a newspaper in all the pictures, I shall download the app you've suggested on my iPhone and also be confident in the knowledge the photos are all EXIF stamped.

    I did just re-read the email from CMF and unfortunately it doesn't state the registration or agreement number for the car - just states 1.6 Ford Focus.

    However, given it's clearly addressed to me and sent to my personal email, refers to the make and general model of the vehicle I'm going to say it would stand up as being obviously in relation to the agreement with CMF. Besides, I think they will just see me as being unnecessarily annoying if I request another version with the details added and I feel I'm safer leaving it as is.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Probably the easiest using your iphone yes, perhaps there is an argument that the timestamps have been fiddled but ultimately you could say the same about CMF's photos if they produce any. Another person on here made a complaint to the Ombudsman and they wouldn't accept the photo because it wasn't timestamped - very pedantic of them to make consumers jump through hoops or put hurdles in our way each time is very annoying.

    Anyway I am sure tomorrow will be fine, try and get the one page acknowledgement signed and at least you can rely on it and complain to the Ombudsman and get their take on it, although wouldn't hold out much hope!
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  25. #25
    woodbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT with Close Motor Finance

    Cheers Rob - I'll let you know how it goes.

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