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    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Hello, I sent a promissory note and an A4V BGC slip to NewDay CEO James Corcoran on the 24th February 2017 along with a letter explaining my actions. I also cc'd in the billing department. In response I received a letter from aqua dated 1 March 2017 addressed to Mr and my full name which stated the following:

    "Dear Mr (surname)

    Thank you for your letter addressed to James Corcoran dated 24 February 2017, which has been passed to me for response.

    Firstly, I am sorry you have had to contact us. Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention and allowing me to address the issues raised.

    I understand that you have forwarded a promissory note for payment of the account along with a giro slip. You have requested the return of the documentation if we are unable to accept this as a form of payment.

    I am unsure why you believe that the Bank Giro Credit Slips and a note promising to pay the account would be accepted as payment. In order for a credit to be applied the Giro Slip needs to be accompanied by a form of payment, such as a cheque or cash and therefore as these were not enclosed the Giro Slip itself holds no monetary value, nor is it a promise to pay.

    I am unable to return the original documentation at this time, however as the none of the documentation hold any monetary value and the Giro Slip has been defaced this has no value and is not accepted as payment.

    I hope I have addressed the issues you have raised and provided a fair resolution. If after consideration you would like to discuss any of these further, please do not hesitate to contact us on the details above. However, should you have any other enquiries, please call our Customer Helpline directly on 0333 220 2691.

    You have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge, but you must do so within six months of the date of this letter.

    If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.

    Details of how to contact the Ombudsman are contained in the enclosed leaflet, but for the ease of reference, please see below:

    Email: complaint.info@financial-ombudsman.org.uk. Telephone them on 0800 0 234 567 free for people phoning from a 'fixed line' (for example, a landline at home) or 0300 123 9 123 free for mobile-phone users who pay a monthly charge for calls to numbers starting 01 or 02. Alternatively you can visit their website at financial-ombudsman.org.uk.

    Yours sincerely



    Rochelle Leach
    Executive Complaints Team

    Enc. Financial Ombudsman Service leaflet"

    Can you please advise what the best course of action is?

  2. #2
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    promissory note and an A4V BGC slip to NewDay CEO


    Freeman of the land again is it???? (believe that and you loose at court no doubt) as many have

  3. #3
    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    need to start again and send CCA1974 request with a Postal Order £1.00, and do things the proper way if you want to stand a chance of succeeding,

    CCA1974 request is what we presume you were asking for ??? or even as a monthly payment????

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    As Mike has alluded to, we don't support freeman on the land here, it really isn't successful, occasionally it can hold things up for a while but that's about it.

    What you need to do if they are chasing you for payment of the debt is send them a CCA request. This is a formal request for a copy of the original credit agreement which must be supplied before the claimant is able to enforce (get judgment) on the debt.

    This is covered under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. the account is a credit card which is 'running credit'.

    I'll paste it here for you

    78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement.

    (1)The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [F1£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

    (a)the state of the account, and

    (b)the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

    (c)the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

    (2)If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

    (3)Subsection (1) does not apply to—

    (a)an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

    (b)a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

    (4)Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

    (a)showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

    (b)where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

    [F2(4A)Regulations may require a statement under subsection (4) to contain also information in the prescribed terms about the consequences of the debtor—

    (a)failing to make payments as required by the agreement; or

    (b)only making payments of a prescribed description in prescribed circumstances.]

    (5)A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

    (6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

    (a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;F3. . .

    (b)F3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    (7)This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections [F4(4) to (5)] do not apply to a small agreement.
    You can find an example letter http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...y-of-Agreement

    Use a reaL £1 POSTAL ORDER or cheque and use your proper name.

    But before all that - we need to know a bit of background to the debt - are there actually any issues with the debt ? excessive charges / ppi ? When was the account defaulted (ie when did you stop making payments ?) - the account is still with the original creditor ? so I'm assuming it's not that old and there's not a six year gap between your last payment and today. Also presumably you aren't actually wanting to settle the debt. Much else in the way of debt? Any concerns over a CCJ ? Bankruptcy etc ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Ahh is this your thread over on GOODF? http://getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/vi...8#.WNUFNbDip7N Just helps to get a bit more info. If it helps, regarding the 'addressee gone away' issue - I agree completely with flyingfish.
    Last edited by Kati; 24th March 2017 at 10:39:AM.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

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    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Yes it is

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    MIKE770's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    From what I have read, my take on promissory notes is that it has to be agreed by both parties (ie you can't unilaterally impose a PN on someone).
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

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  9. #9
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    As Mike has alluded to, we don't support freeman on the land here, it really isn't successful, occasionally it can hold things up for a while but that's about it.

    What you need to do if they are chasing you for payment of the debt is send them a CCA request. This is a formal request for a copy of the original credit agreement which must be supplied before the claimant is able to enforce (get judgment) on the debt.

    This is covered under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. the account is a credit card which is 'running credit'.

    I'll paste it here for you



    You can find an example letter http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...y-of-Agreement

    Use a reaL £1 POSTAL ORDER or cheque and use your proper name.

    But before all that - we need to know a bit of background to the debt - are there actually any issues with the debt ? excessive charges / ppi ? When was the account defaulted (ie when did you stop making payments ?) - the account is still with the original creditor ? so I'm assuming it's not that old and there's not a six year gap between your last payment and today. Also presumably you aren't actually wanting to settle the debt. Much else in the way of debt? Any concerns over a CCJ ? Bankruptcy etc ?
    No default yet but the situation is that the interest is SO high that it is impossible to even stop it growing each month, let alone pay off the ACTUAL DEBT!

  10. #10
    pt2537's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by MPotter View Post
    No default yet but the situation is that the interest is SO high that it is impossible to even stop it growing each month, let alone pay off the ACTUAL DEBT!
    Is there any issue such as irresponsible lending?> were you able to afford the payments when you borrowed the funds ?
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

    I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.



    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


  11. #11
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by pt2537 View Post
    Is there any issue such as irresponsible lending?> were you able to afford the payments when you borrowed the funds ?
    In my opinion yes they clearly lent me the money irresponsibly. When I borrowed the funds I was NOT able to afford to pay any money towards the actual debt. However they still allowed me to borrow the funds! :0

  12. #12
    Debt Camel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Did they increase your credit limit to a level that was unaffordably high? If they did, you could consider making an affordability complaint, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/.

    These sort of complaints to credit cards are pretty new, there isn't a track record of cases yet that can be referred to.

    If you can't afford to make the minimum payments without getting further into debt each month you should consider your full debt position and whether a debt management paln would help stabilise your situation, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/guide-to-dmps/.

  13. #13
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    As Mike has alluded to, we don't support freeman on the land here, it really isn't successful, occasionally it can hold things up for a while but that's about it.

    What you need to do if they are chasing you for payment of the debt is send them a CCA request. This is a formal request for a copy of the original credit agreement which must be supplied before the claimant is able to enforce (get judgment) on the debt.

    This is covered under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. the account is a credit card which is 'running credit'.

    I'll paste it here for you



    You can find an example letter http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...y-of-Agreement

    Use a reaL £1 POSTAL ORDER or cheque and use your proper name.

    But before all that - we need to know a bit of background to the debt - are there actually any issues with the debt ? excessive charges / ppi ? When was the account defaulted (ie when did you stop making payments ?) - the account is still with the original creditor ? so I'm assuming it's not that old and there's not a six year gap between your last payment and today. Also presumably you aren't actually wanting to settle the debt. Much else in the way of debt? Any concerns over a CCJ ? Bankruptcy etc ?
    Charges were excessive. No further issues. Account not defaulted, with original creditor. Not that old and no six year gap. I don't want to settle the debt, not that much else and no CCJ or bankruptcy.

  14. #14
    Anthony72's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    On Goodf you say the account is in default but now you are saying it isn't

    Are you saying you do not want to settle the debt ...ever ... or just not able to right now ?
    Are you also saying that you are not bothered if you get a CCJ or are made Bankrupt or no you don't have either of those

    I know Aqua charge silly amounts of interest and do very quickly increase the credit limit- not in my opinion very helpful to someone who probably has a poor credit rating anyway

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    To add to what DebtCamel has said, if it's not excessive interest that you weren't aware of, maybe you can you get a different card with a intro rate or better rate and transfer the balance ? - that's a way to keep the credit file clear. If you simply cease payments then your credit file will be affected and the account passed to a DCA eventually. If you negotiate closing the account and freezing interest and making a monthly payment - then that will also affect your credit file ( usually gets marked as arrangement ) as would a DMP.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  16. #16
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    To add to what DebtCamel has said, if it's not excessive interest that you weren't aware of, maybe you can you get a different card with a intro rate or better rate and transfer the balance ? - that's a way to keep the credit file clear. If you simply cease payments then your credit file will be affected and the account passed to a DCA eventually. If you negotiate closing the account and freezing interest and making a monthly payment - then that will also affect your credit file ( usually gets marked as arrangement ) as would a DMP.
    Personally I would call 50% APR excessive for a credit card and I wasn't aware of it at the time. What shall I do?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Offered but refused on the grounds that I can afford the £25 per month minimum payment!

    Quote Originally Posted by Debt Camel View Post
    Did they increase your credit limit to a level that was unaffordably high? If they did, you could consider making an affordability complaint, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-catalogue-credit-card/.

    These sort of complaints to credit cards are pretty new, there isn't a track record of cases yet that can be referred to.

    If you can't afford to make the minimum payments without getting further into debt each month you should consider your full debt position and whether a debt management paln would help stabilise your situation, see https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-options/guide-to-dmps/.

  17. #17
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    I have received a reply to my letter providing me with the terms and conditions. However they did not provide me with any signatures either from myself or from them. What should I do?

  18. #18
    nemesis45's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by MPotter View Post
    I have received a reply to my letter providing me with the terms and conditions. However they did not provide me with any signatures either from myself or from them. What should I do?
    Two sets of T's & C's?

    Did you send the Formal CCA Request + £1.00 Fee?

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I will not advise by Private Message. If Specific Advice is Needed please Tag me in your post by typing @Nemesis45 . If you receive messages from anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide.





  19. #19
    warwick65's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    When did you apply for the card and how did you apply?

    If it was online then a 'tick box' signature done online will suffice on the agreement

    It may be that there are only one set of terms and conditions if the account is newish

    ThAs Nemesis has said, did you send a formal CCA request with the fee

    AS for the 50% APR , well that should have been on the credit agreement that you should have signed either online or in real

  20. #20
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis45 View Post
    Two sets of T's & C's?

    Did you send the Formal CCA Request + £1.00 Fee?

    nem
    1) No - there was only one set of T's and C's provided.
    2) Yes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by warwick65 View Post
    When did you apply for the card and how did you apply?

    If it was online then a 'tick box' signature done online will suffice on the agreement

    It may be that there are only one set of terms and conditions if the account is newish

    ThAs Nemesis has said, did you send a formal CCA request with the fee

    AS for the 50% APR , well that should have been on the credit agreement that you should have signed either online or in real
    1) Online a year ago.
    2) This was not provided.
    3)
    4)
    5) I believe that it was.

  21. #21
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    All the recent online applications that I have seen require the applicant to tick a box (or similar) to signify that the T&Cs have been accepted.
    Eg - https://applynow.aquacard.co.uk/appl...4AA000DSE00100
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  22. #22
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    And to clarify I did tick such a box! Yet it was not provided in the paperwork that I was sent.

  23. #23
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Have they sent an accurate copy of the original agreement?

    (Since Carey, a reconstructed version is compliant).
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  24. #24
    MPotter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    I'd say no but they've provided an accurate version of the terms and conditions. No signature was provided.

  25. #25
    charitynjw's Avatar

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    Default Re: Aqua Card refuse promissory note and A4V

    Carey
    At 234
    (1) A creditor can satisfy its duty under s78 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself;
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

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