Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 53

Thread: Appeal CCJ and lowell payment request

  • Share
  • Thread Tools
  • Display
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    I got a surprising CCJ judgment on 2nd March (awaiting paperwork in post). I was shocked at the outcome as I believe I did all the right things. I made a case that the debt bought by lowell portfolio 1 ltd from capital one is unenforceable as the claimant's could not produce a copy of the original agreement or the assignment. Lowell produced a copy of the original application but no legal assignment. Cut story short, they got the judgment in their favour. I presented what I have and thought as the agreement but was told it is a letter. I guess I was overwhelmed by the judges handling of the case as he interjected my presentation a lot as not relevant and I should get what he is thinking. When the case finished and came out of the chamber, I realised that I only gave the letter to which the card was attached and not the copy of the original agreement that was also enclosed with the card. This was clearly the copy of the agreement unsigned and undated and I was advised to keep it in a safe place. The application is dated 2001 and together with costs, interests and fees the debt awarded stands at @£7000. I cannot afford to pay this and can't sleep.
    DO I HAVE ANY ROOM TO GET THE COURT TO REVIEW THE CASE IN VIEW OF MY NEWLY FOUND COPY OF ORIGINAL AGREEMENT. SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP ME AS I AM DROWNING. LIFE'S DIFFICULT AT THE MOMENT.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Please any generous advice will be appreciated

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Appeal or Set Aside. Just can't sleep

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Is anybody able to help please

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    17,001
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj



    ​​​​

    https://www.carersuk.org/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Please I don't understand your reply

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,171
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    asking for that person to assist you,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Thanks a lot

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    I don't know how to contact her on this forum or do I just wait for her to respond to my post. Please help

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,171
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    wait she will respond probably out shopping

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Bless you. Thanks

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,719
    Mentioned
    302 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Hi Jeed

    Did you ask the judge for permission to appeal at your hearing?
    Was it in Small Claims court?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    I did not ask permission to appeal and it was a small claims court at Watford

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,719
    Mentioned
    302 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    It is likely that the case was heard by a Deputy District Judge or a District judge.
    Could you confirm?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    I believe so

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,719
    Mentioned
    302 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    If you decide that you want to appeal this judgement, it is worth noting that:

    You will need to seek permission for an appeal.

    If it is given, the appeal itself is not a rehearing of the case. It is passed to a more senior judge to see whether the hearing judge has made a mistake either in correctly applying the law or in interpreting the facts of the case, or perhaps if there were any procedural mistakes.

    Time limits for appealing are very strict. (Normally 21 days from the judgment). There is also a fee for the appeal. If you are on a low income you might be eligible for fee remission.

    If it were me I'd ask for written 'reasons' from the judge.

    I'll give @R0b a nudge for further pointers.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    3,207
    Mentioned
    426 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Well first of all, you've got 21 days from the date of the judgment to seek permission to appeal, so not alot of time.

    Secondly, if your primary argument is that the agreement is unenforceable because they can't locate a copy of the agreement, did you send Lowell a CCA request and did they comply?

    I'm not sure whether there is a specific requirement under the CCA that the agreement must be signed to be enforceable (Diana might know) but under general contract law, just because an agreement isn't signed or dated doesn't mean that it is unenforceable - contracts can be entered into through conduct and provided both parties acted in accordance with the terms, then it can be implied by conduct that an agreement has been entered into.

    What was your arguments on assignment? Obviously if a legal assignment can't be produced and/or they don't know when the notice of assignment to you was given, it is arguable that no legal assignment took place and that it is only an equitable one. If that is the case, then Lowell would have required to have the legal creditor to bring a claim in their name but Lowell added as an interested party.

    Was a default notice ever served on you or if not, did you raise this as an issue?

    Based on previous threads on here, terms and conditions may not contain the prescribed terms as required by the CCA and could therefore mean the agreement is unenforceable (again Diana will know of these).

    Finally, you said the judge found in favour of Lowell, did you make a note of his reasons why and did he explain clearly why he was giving judgment? Did the judge disregard any evidence you put forward including the assignment issue?

    Maybe Diana could shed some further light on anything else I've missed out.
    Any posts made by myself are intended as general guidance in relation to your rights and responsibilities, and does not constitute legal advice nor does it create any kind of relationship. No liability can be accepted for any losses, omissions or errors that may arise from your reliance on any advice, information or other matters published on this forum by me. Should you require legal advice, you can do so by using the Law Society's Find A Solicitor or contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureau.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Thank you very much Charitynjw for your help. Is it not possible to set aside the judgement or write to the judge to re-examine the evidence of the unsigned and undated original copy of agreement that I mentioned during the hearing but tendered the letter carrying the card instead due to interjections. If appeal is the only way what are the likely costs and potential to succeed. I am currently out of contract since end of January but do have a mortgaged property. Can a no win no fee option work for me if all else fails. I was just disoriented at the time I offered the letter which the judge read and passed to the claimant's solicitor who could not comment. But the judge assessed it as a letter.
    Are you able to advise on the above explanation or any other possible solution to my situation. I await your response.
    Regards

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    9,719
    Mentioned
    302 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post

    I'm not sure whether there is a specific requirement under the CCA that the agreement must be signed to be enforceable (Diana might know) but under general contract law, just because an agreement isn't signed or dated doesn't mean that it is unenforceable - contracts can be entered into through conduct and provided both parties acted in accordance with the terms, then it can be implied by conduct that an agreement has been entered into.
    Thanks, R0b.

    As it appears to be a 2001 agreement, the original CCA 1974 as enacted will apply.
    Quite often in these cases, s127.3 kicks in; if applicable, the court doesn't have jurisdiction.
    After April 2007 the 2006 CCA gives the court discretion to make a judgment,

    I guess we'd need to know exactly what legal arguments were made in this case & the basis on which it was decided.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Thanks Rob and Charitynjw. I will scan some of ther documents for your perusal and opinion. Personal details are deleted as appropriate.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Thanks again Rob and Charitynjw,

    I must confess that I can not remember verbatim the basis of the decision as I was too shocked with what transpired. I raised a no of issues regarding the claimant's witness statement verbally as shown in the attached document. I also raised issues about the non-enforceable debt.
    The Judge made a decision on balance of probability that lowell was able to proof that there was an agreement by virtue of the production of the copy of application and with regards to the assignment by virtue of the letter (which I did not receive) from Capital One informing that the Debt has been sold to Lowell. I still objected to acceptability of both but was too shocked and overwhelmed to make a more vigorous response. When I said I have a copy of the original agreement, there was an expression of surprise, I gave it to the Judge (The letter to which the card was attached referring to the agreement enclosed), after reading he passed it on to the Lowell representative who could not make any comment. However, the judge proceeded with the decision after saying the document was a letter. Was too shocked to respond as I had already seen a sign of withdrawal on Lowell representative's face. Anyway, that is essentially where I am with a CCJ that I doubtful of it's legality but not knowing what to do next and with very little financial means.

    It appears that I have used up the maximum size of attachments and will try follow up with the additional docs immediately.
    Many thanks for you help
    Attached Files Attached Files

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Additional documents attached
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Issues raised on claimant witness statement.jpg   Front side of copy of original agreememt.jpg   Inner side of copy of original agreememt.jpg   Letter to which card was attached.jpg  

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    I hope you will have the patience to read all document to get the gist of my saga and still be kind enough to advice on the best or most appropriate way forward that will be least costly.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    30
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    I have not slept for 2 days and now very tired, Please excuse me if you reply and expect an immediate/quick response. I will be back in the morning. Thanks and warm regards

    - - - Updated - - -

    What does s127.3 mean?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    2,719
    Mentioned
    346 Post(s)

    Default Re: Appeal unenforceable debt ccj

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeed View Post
    I presented what I have and thought as the agreement but was told it is a letter. I guess I was overwhelmed by the judges handling of the case as he interjected my presentation a lot as not relevant and I should get what he is thinking. When the case finished and came out of the chamber, I realised that I only gave the letter to which the card was attached and not the copy of the original agreement that was also enclosed with the card. This was clearly the copy of the agreement unsigned and undated and I was advised to keep it in a safe place.
    If you want to make an Application to appeal the judgment you will need a transcript of the hearing to go with it.

    This will be necessary to support any argument you make that the DJ got it wrong (for whatever reason).

    If you're only reason for believing that you should be granted an appeal is that you didn't show the DJ a document which supported your legal argument at the hearing (your mistake not the DJ's fault since he didn't have the evidence in front off him when he made his decision) then I'm not sure where this is heading.

    However if the document you needed to support your argument was in the bundle (and referred to in your Witness Statement and Exhibited) then it's not unreasonable to expect the DJ to have read the file even if you didn't draw it to his attention at the hearing. You were a LIP without legal representation after all.

    Transcripts take time (unless you're willing to pay extra for the 48 hours service) and may be a reason for not meeting the strict deadline for making an application to appeal.

    When you get the transcript you'll be able to see whether the DJ made a legal error of judgement and/or whether the Claimant mislead the DJ.

    Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. But wanting to have second chance to articulate your case may not be an option unless the DJ erred in some way first time around.

    Let's hope he did.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lowell - CCA Request - Help Please
    By Molly2015 in forum Welcome Forum
    Replies: 29
    : 13th October 2016, 16:05:PM
  2. Lowell CCA request
    By MRSP in forum Money & Debt
    Replies: 1
    : 15th September 2015, 19:26:PM
  3. I have been chased by Lowell for a payment of £565
    By alzamily in forum Debt Collection Agencies
    Replies: 3
    : 7th September 2014, 15:46:PM
  4. Lowell court of appeal
    By Roy Clayton in forum Debt Collection Agencies
    Replies: 16
    : 12th November 2012, 17:06:PM
  5. Conflicting reply to my cca request Lowell
    By microbar in forum Debt Collection Agencies
    Replies: 17
    : 13th August 2011, 19:53:PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Contact Us



© Celame (UK) Ltd 2016
Hosted by Lodge Information Services Ltd
LegalBeagles® are DPA Registered No. ZA158014
LegalBeagles® is the trading name of CELAME (UK) LIMITED ( 09220332 )
Registered Address: 25 Moorgate, London, England, EC2R 6AY
VAT registration number 206 9740 02
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.3 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Celame (UK) Ltd Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
TOP