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  1. #1
    Strats's Avatar

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    Default Wright Hassall

    Hi, not sure if this thread is still active, but i would appreciate some advice on a similar matter already discussed. I am also being chased by Wright Hassall for payment of two PCNs and an additional £196 per PCN, both were challenged and both challenges failed (unfairly in my opinion, but i guess thats another matter). I saw the template pasted into this thread 19th Jan 17 @ 01:39am. I thought this matched my circumstances quite well, so took a chance and emailed it to Wright Hassall, they have responded with the below. My question is, is there a response i can send them to get them to back off? if not I've heard that if this does actually go to court then the most i'll have to pay is the two PCN amounts (£100 each), £50 court fees and £35 solicitors fees. is this true? if so it will be cheaper for me to go to court, pay those costs rather than the PCNs and two lots of £196.
    Wright Hassall repsonse
    Dear Mr

    Our Reference:
    Client Reference:
    Car Parking Operator: National Car Parks Ltd
    Instructed by: ZZPS Limited
    Balance outstanding: £392.00 (£196.00, £196.00)

    With reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which have been duly noted.

    Please see above details the two Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) issued to your vehicle for being parked in breach of the parking terms & conditions at North Greenwich LU STN (ANPR).

    In response to your comments, please see below:

    1. We are pursuing you for this PCN as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. If you are advising you were not the driver at the time the PCN was issued, you had the opportunity to inform the car park operator of the driver details when you first received the notice. Our clients have no cause of action against the driver at this stage, as keeper liability has been established.
    2. The PCN has been issued for breaching the parking terms & conditions being prominently displayed by signs around the car park. Our clients are members of British Parking Association (BPA), their signage is ample, clear and in line with the BPA Code of Practice to ensure the motorist is bound by them when they enter and remain at the site. Any further information about the signage, the parking terms and conditions, and or the signage plan can be obtained by visiting the parking site in question in person.
    3. At this stage of the process, the PCN is not being pursued under Railway Bylaws.

    In regards to your comment about CPR 27.14, it must be noted we have not yet issued a Claim against you. However, should we be instructed to do so, we shall ensure that our Particulars of Claim are fully compliant with the relevant provisions set out within the CPR.

    Nevertheless, this matter is now in recovery stage and your client has surpassed the time to appeal this matter. We can, therefore, confirm this PCN stands and in order to close the matter in settlement of your liability, the outstanding balance of £392.00 needs to be paid in full. We will place a 14-day hold on this matter to allow you time to make payment in full.

    Should payment in full not be received, the hold will be removed and this account may proceed to litigation stage with a view to issuing a claim and obtaining judgment.

    Please see below our payment methods we have enclosed for your convenience.

    Debit Card/ Direct Debit: Call 01926 758101
    Online: Please visit our website at: https://paymentsplace.com/wrighthassall/

    Please quote our reference number with all payments.
    Last edited by Kati; 5th April 2017 at 10:25:AM.

  2. #2
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    My question is, is there a response i can send them to get them to back off?
    There are no magic bullets. Sometimes they slow down if you reply other times it's full steam ahead.

    if not I've heard that if this does actually go to court then the most i'll have to pay is the two PCN amounts (£100 each), £50 court fees and £35 solicitors fees. is this true? if so it will be cheaper for me to go to court, pay those costs rather than the PCNs and two lots of £196
    I would have said similar, and yes, unless you ignore court instructions and dick around, it is likely you'll pay less than claimed even if you lose.

    So the 2 important questions are,

    1. Did they in fact comply with the protection of freedoms act 2012 allowing the keeper to be held liable ?

    2. Is the area in question covered by byelaws ?

    (i know the client is Zzps and they can't do court but when they send this shite they seem to be following up with court eventually under the parking company)

    M1
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    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    thanks for your response M1.

    In relation to question 1;
    Do you mean, did they (NCP) contact the DVLA to get my details? if so, yes, i have a copy of the request that was sent to the DVLA. this has been going on for a while, but one I'm pretty sure that one of my original arguments was that they haven't confirmed who the driver was. NCP provided a photo, but all you can tell is thats its a person with long hair driving. I dont recall confirming to NCP who the driver was.

    RE question 2;

    i have been trying to find out if byelaws can come into play here, but i haven't been able to confirm yet. I'm assuming they do as the car park is for the North Greenwich tube station.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    1. No. I mean did they comply with http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted particularly 7/8 for where a ticket was affixed to a vehicle or 9 where the notice to keeper came by post within 14 days.

    2. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/road-trans...es-byelaws.pdf https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...riage.pdf.html

    They are covered.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    Hi M1,

    thanks for your prompt response.

    please see below response to your points;

    1. there were no tickets affixed to the car on either occasion. Both notices were sent by post, and did not arrive within the 14 day period, and, in fact the reason for the second PCN was because the first one didn't arrive until after the second alleged event. I tried to pay by text both times, but wasn't aware that the payment hadn't been processed until i received the first PCN.

    2. Great! I assume this means the 6 month period to prosecute comes into play? If so, then both PCNs are over 6 months old.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    They're pretty knackered whichever way they go, without knowing who the driver was then.

    As back up, i'd be checking if there are any signs that mention the byelaws.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  7. #7
    Strats's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    Great, thanks M1.

    I'll send a reply RE those two points and see what happens, i'll also have a quick look around the car park to see if there is any signage RE byelaws.

    You have been most helpful, thank you.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    Hi M1,

    would you able to provide a bit more assistance?

    Wright Hassall have sent the below response;


    With reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which we have noted.

    It must be noted that your vehicle was parked in breach of the prominently displayed parking terms & conditions.

    Irrespective of when you received the Parking Charge Notices (PCNs), the operator provided you with opportunity to inform them of the driver details within the required timeframe. By ignoring the notices and their instruction, you accepted liability for these PCNs.

    Moreover, your continued assertion that these PCNs were issued under Railway Byelaws is incorrect. For avoidance of doubt, if they were issued under Bylaws, then they would be filed against you as Penalty Notices under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 as amended under the Railway Act 2005.

    Nevertheless, at this stage of the process we are only instructed to recover the above balance and take further actions, should non-payment continue. Therefore, without full payment of the above balance, we can confirm you will remain liable to the above PCNs.

    Please note this account will remain on hold until 31/03/2017 and unless you provide additional information you have not already brought to our attention, any further correspondence will be noted and filed but we will not respond.


    I'm not sure if any more replies will do anything, I'm tempted to just hang on and see what they do next?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    That's a very nice letter to receive !! They have confirmed that they are not using byelaws, though byelaws apply to the site. They have confirmed that this is not relevant land and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable, only the driver, who they do not know.

    You could write to them thanking you for the confirmation that it is a matter of contract and not byelaws. Also as it is not relevant land they must know that POFA cannot be used to hold the keeper liable.

  10. #10
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    Dear Tw@t,

    Thank you for your letter of xxxx the contents of which are noted.

    Please explain " By ignoring the notices and their instruction, you accepted liability for these PCNs.". I do not accept liability. Further i am under no statutory obligation to name the driver, unless you know something i do not.

    I would also note the you are not using the byelaws even though they apply to this site which means that the land is not "relevant land" for the purposes of the protection of freedoms act.

    Yours etc

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  11. #11
    Strats's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    M1/ostell - you are gents indeed!

    I shall respond in your suggested fashion.

    Thanks once again, i'll update the thread with my progress.

  12. #12
    Strats's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    M1/ostell, thanks once again for your help.

    I received a response from WH, they are "going back to their client for more detail, in light of the information I have provided".

    Sounds like progress is being made!

  13. #13
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall

    Not really but it seems we've slowed them down, for now.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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