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Thread: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

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  1. #1
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    Default PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Hi
    I had received a county court claim from PRA group for a debt I had with Virgin Money back in 2010. I defaulted on the debt and had set up a debt management plan to pay it back. Due to personal reasons in June last year I was unable to keep up with my DMP and in November last year received a County court claim form from PRA group. I sent in my Defence to the court basically saying I don't know who PRA group is??... I have had a response from the court to say it would be struck out unless PRA GROUP can submit particulars of the claim by 8th March. The sent in a copy of MBNA's T&C along with assignment notice of the debt being 'transferred' from a company called activ to PRA group. There was no assignment of notice from MBNA to the other company they claim who were dealing with it, who were called Varde. I knew nothing of any of these companies purchasing my debt. As far as I was aware my debt plan were paying Virgin back. Can someone please help to advice me am I right in thinking I need to see a copy of the assignment notice from MBNA to Varde and then Varde to activ who the changed their name to PRA group? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    | First Steps

    - - - Updated - - -

    | First Steps | CCA Request || CPR 31.14 Request

    - - - Updated - - -

    your story is not unusual see other threads on PRA etc meantime follow 1st steps etc no haste in asking for assignments at this stage only request CPR31.14 what is mentioned (Only) on the N1 claim form = have you been on MCOL to acknowledge the claim and state defend all>???

  3. #3
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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBax View Post
    Hi
    I had received a county court claim from PRA group for a debt I had with Virgin Money back in 2010. I defaulted on the debt and had set up a debt management plan to pay it back. Due to personal reasons in June last year I was unable to keep up with my DMP and in November last year received a County court claim form from PRA group. I sent in my Defence to the court basically saying I don't know who PRA group is??... I have had a response from the court to say it would be struck out unless PRA GROUP can submit particulars of the claim by 8th March. The sent in a copy of MBNA's T&C along with assignment notice of the debt being 'transferred' from a company called activ to PRA group. There was no assignment of notice from MBNA to the other company they claim who were dealing with it, who were called Varde. I knew nothing of any of these companies purchasing my debt. As far as I was aware my debt plan were paying Virgin back. Can someone please help to advice me am I right in thinking I need to see a copy of the assignment notice from MBNA to Varde and then Varde to activ who the changed their name to PRA group? Thanks in advance.
    Hi there

    The case of PRA v Brunt shows the difficulties they have with their assignments, and more over they generally struggle to show the assignment has taken place.

    https://consumercreditlitigationandd...up-uk-limited/
    I work for QualitySolicitors Howlett Clarke in the Consumer Credit Department. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.


    You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.


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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Yes I have been on MCOL and replied to the court I have not admitted the claim I simply put I am unable to form a response as I don't know who you are. They have sent the court and myself copies of my old bank statements dating from 2004! They have submitted a statement of truth which is much better laid out compared to what they sent previously to the court. It has been moved to my local court which I requested. I know have until the 22nd of March to add to my existing defense.

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Have you sent a CCA request to the Claimant?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBax View Post
    I knew nothing of any of these companies purchasing my debt. As far as I was aware my debt plan were paying Virgin back.
    Does the name Experto Credite ring any bells with you?

    Even though you were in a DMP the creditor must still serve any statutory notices on you not the DMP business. The creditor can copy them to the DMP but the Notices won't be considered 'served' on you unless they are (served on you).

    So the Claimant will have to evidence that you were sent any applicable Notice(s) of Assignment if these changes took place during that time.

    Have you ever sent a s.78-79 CCA Request to anyone? If not then do that immediately in order to protect your legal positon.

    Depending on what comes back (or not) you may need to file an Amended Defence which requires permission from the court unless the Claimant is willing to consent to you doing that.

    Non compliance with a CCA Request may prevent the Claimant from enforcing the debt in court until or unless they do comply.

    Was the Unless Order inspired by the court having read your Defence or did you make an application of some sort? Have you bypassed the Directions Questionnaire stage?

    How much is the claim in order to see whether it's likely to be allocated to the Small Claims Court (for claims under £10k) where the legal process is managed in a different way from the Fast Track?

    Finally I would send a Subject Access Request to MBNA so you've got the full history of the account which should include the Transaction Log which can make interesting reading.

    I would also be tempted to send a SAR to your DMP business so you've got evidence of who was paid what to whom, and more importantly when. And it should include any correspondence between the debt owners and them.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Hi, yes I requested CCA and I think they have sent me all they have, which is.
    1 a copy of MBNA T&C
    2 A signed agreement with myself & Virgin credit card.
    3 notice of assignment order from Aktiv to PRA group
    4 copies of statements from 2004 of myself & Virgin money.
    5 copy of call logs between myself & Virgin Money from 2006!
    6 statements which basically is just a spreadsheet printed which anyone could type stating payments made from my DMP to expertio credit??

    They have said in their statement of truth that MBNA sold the debt to Varde who in turn sold it to Aktiv but have not included copies of the notice of assignments for these. Nor a copy of the original letter that should face been sent to me to say Virgin money have instructed/transferee the 'debt' to Varde.

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    I don't see any Default Notice on that list of documents which PRA has produced?

    I also note the account was opened in 2004

    Did you have PPI on the account? Some consumers didn't always know it had been added so look for premiums/payments made on those statements they've sent you.

    How much is the claim?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Hi Di

    I have not had a copy of the default from PRA Group but I know I defaulted with Virgin Money and this fell of my credit file last year.

    They are claiming £3827.70 plus £132.45 interest plus 84p a day thereafter....

    The account was opened in November 2004, and from the statements they have sent me it looks like I didn't have PPI.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The letter I last had from the courts states that I have until the 22nd March to file & serve Amended Defence.

    If I now need to request further information in order to form my defence do you think the judge will allow a stay? or do you think PRA will object to this?

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    The letter I last had from the courts states that I have until the 22nd March to file & serve Amended Defence.

    If I now need to request further information in order to form my defence do you think the judge will allow a stay? or do you think PRA will object to this?

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Have you previously sent a CPR 31.14 Request asking for documents including the Default Notice?

    Did the Unless Order specify which documents the Claimant had to produce, and if so was the DN on that list?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    'Was the Unless Order inspired by the court having read your Defence or did you make an application of some sort? Have you bypassed the Directions Questionnaire stage?'

    The letter I received says "The claim is stayed on the grounds that the claimants statement of case discloses inadequate particulars of claim. Unless by 4pm on 8th March the claimant files and serves a further statement of case that sets out full particulars of the claim, the claim will stand stuck out."

    PRA the submitted their statement of truth, bang on the 8th March!! just when I thought it was going to go away! : (

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    I have not sent a letter requesting a CPR however following my defence which I wrote.

    "Defendant is without information or knowledge sufficient to form an opinion as to the truth or accuracy of the claimants claim, and based on that denies generally and specifically claimants claim."

    after that PRA group sent me a letter and to the courts with copies of Notice of assignment, which as I previously mentioned is just one between aktiv and PRA group, Terms & Conditions of MBNA group (not signed), agreement signed between myself and Virgin Money dated November 2004, copy statements, not all of them, CIS notes & transaction Logs.

    I then received the letter from the courts, The letter I received says "The claim is stayed on the grounds that the claimants statement of case discloses inadequate particulars of claim. Unless by 4pm on 8th March the claimant files and serves a further statement of case that sets out full particulars of the claim, the claim will stand stuck out."

    I then received exactly the same information as previously from PRA group but laid out much better and presented in a statement of claim, called amended particulars. And attached to the back was a print out of money paid from my DMP to experto credite, its literally a spreadsheet that has just been printed, anyone could generate it.

    Since this began in November I have not received a copy of the original default notice between myself and Virgin Money.

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Hi Di

    Quick question.. if I change my name during a credit agreement would my credit card/loan providers draw up a new CCA with my name change or would the original still stand but my general information just be updated?... I believe PRA group have created a fake CCA?? TIA

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    The original CCA would stand and they would update the system with your new details. the original CCA should therefore carry your name as it was at the time you signed the agreement.

    agreement signed between myself and Virgin Money dated November 2004
    Is that the original agreement from when you opened the account? And is that one that has your new name on rather than the name you had in Nov 2004?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    They have sent me a CCA with no signature on or dates but there is a section at the top were it has my old name & address, but I was not that name or lived at that address when I took out the original agreement with Virgin credit. I'm just wondering if I can use it in my defence as 'fake documentation I guess??'

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    Default Re: PRA Group CCJ, next step??

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBax View Post
    I have not sent a letter requesting a CPR however following my defence which I wrote.

    "Defendant is without information . . . . . "

    I have not received a copy of the original default notice between myself and Virgin Money.
    I think you need to send a CPR 31.14 Request asap.

    From what you say the Claimant has filed an Amended Particulars of Claim because the court made an Order saying their claim would be struck out if they didn't do that by 8th March. They have now complied with that order.

    In your CPR 31.14 Request you should ask for everything mentioned in the new POC. And you ask (tell) them to respond in seven days so you'll be able to refer to their non-response (if that's the case) in your Amended Defence.

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBax View Post
    The letter I last had from the courts states that I have until the 22nd March to file & serve Amended Defence.
    What do the new POC say?

    In other words the court has allowed them to move the goalposts and has also allowed you to move yours.

    Game on

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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