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Please Help: County Court Claim

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  • Please Help: County Court Claim

    Received a claim
    Issue Date: 21/02/2017
    Amount approx: £7078
    Claimant: PRA Group
    Solicitor: Surjit Gida (Legal Rep)
    Original Creditor: NBNA
    Particulars of Claim:
    The Claimant claims the sum of 7078.00 for debt and interest. On 11/06/02 the defendant entered into an agreement with NBNA for a credit card under reference: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
    On 31/05/10 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of 6895.76. On 29/02/2012 the debt of 6895.76 assigned the debt to PRA Group (UK) on 31/12/2014.
    Notices of assignment were sent to to the defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925.
    Payments of 54.00 received up to 13/09/2016.
    The claimant claims (1) the sum of 6838.76. (2) Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from 13/09/2016 to 20/02/2017, 239.63
    Daily rate of 1.50 until judgment or sooner payment.
    Is the debt Statute Barred: No

    Info: My mother over the phone registered for a credit card, there was no signing of an agreement. In 2009 her husband, my father developed cancer while working abroad. He carried two thirds of their house hold income. Finances grew increasingly as time went on. I assist as much as possible. All other banks when informed of the situation froze their accounts and worked on a solution. MBNA differed and instead raised interest rates. In May 2010 She defaulted once again. On 04/06/2010 NBNA sent her a letter stipulating her balance was 6905.76 and in order to remedy the breach she must pay £1082.13 by 22 June 2010 (I have this letter). On the 30th My father died at home with my mother, she had no ability to pay.

    On the 30th she also received a letter from Experto Credite stating Varde Investments (Ireland) has bought the interest of NBNA including the outstanding balance. Thus the legal owner of the account. Under the terms of this assignment Experto Credite have been appointed to recover any and all debt. (I have this letter). She replied after numerous calls and letters on the 14th august 2010 (I have this letter copy), appologising and stating the situation she is in, and her inability to pay the sums owed and how she was treated by NBNA.

    Eventually finances were looked on and a plea bargain was made whereby my mother and Credite Experto agreed she paid £1 per month (Amazing), from the 20/05/2011 via standing order to an assigned bank account. At the end it states "If your payments stop at any time without us agreeing, the full amount will become payable immediately. (I have this letter). She has paid this every month without fail.

    This never stopped them from harassing her with letters saying she has monies outstanding, but each time she referred to the agreement and never stopped paying. On the 26/04/2012 a letter was received by Aktiv Kapital stating they have purchased the account from Varde Investments. With an outstanding balance of £6,893.76. They have stated they have been advised of a payment arrangement set up with Experto Credite. And although they own the account, "you should still continue to make your payments to Experto Credite" "Experto Credite will advise us of all the payments you make so we can keep your account up to date" (I have this letter)

    On the 16/05/2012 Experto Credite sends a statement of account as required by the CCA 1974, stating the assigned balance is £6905.76 (This is the exact original amount stated by NBNA in 2010), paid £13... (1 every month from since agreement) and the current balance is £6892.76. She continues to pay and receives letters of settlement offers she can't afford but no statements from Experto Credite ever again (I have several examples of offers).

    She next receives a letter of statement Undated for 13/01/2014-12/01/2015 as requires by CCA. Giving a opening balance on 13/01/2014 of 6873.76 and the closing balance on 12/01/2015 of £6860.76. On the letter it also states Aktiv Kapital (UK) limited changed its name to PRA Group (UK). Then saying they have been assigned the account from Aktiv Kapital. "You do not need to do anything as a result of this change. We will continue to accept payments in the name of Aktiv Kapital, So no changes of payment are needed". (I have this letter)

    On the 16/01/2015 a letter was received from PRA to inform that the account was assigned to them, re-stating that their name had changed. Also saying "Your existing payment arrangements are not affected by this transfer and do not need to make any changes" (I have this letter). Of course still letter are still sent saying an outstanding amount, offers which she still can't afford and calls about her balance. Her replies over the phone stay the same and she keeps paying.

    On the 25/01/2016 PRA sends another statement saying her opening balance on 26/01/2015 is £6860.76 payments received 12.00. Closing balance on 25/01/2016 is £6848.76. Of course the calls keep coming and she keeps to the same script.

    On the 03/01/2017 PRA Group sends a letter to inform her that her account has been transferred to the investigations and litigation department. Saying its a letter before claim as required by Practice Direction on Pre-Action Protocols, for intention of court proceedings. She calls them up and informs them of the agreement to which they say they haven't been sent payment.... She checks every month without fault and her last payments at the end of the year show payments go through.... She argues and yes calls them a liar. They don't say why or give a reason for not getting payment.

    On the 05/01/2017 she gets another statement from PRA Group saying they have payments received of £11.00.... So she goes back to her last statement and sees payments are being made, to the agreed. Her statements come after the 9th of every month and is actually stated on her statements.... So she couldn't check her Dec-Jan Statement. She goes with the premise that as usual they are calling to force a new agreement or get something.

    She gets one more letter from PRA stating again its with the Investigations Department.... Then on the21 /02/2017 she is sent a County Court Claim Form. She still only has her house to her name and zero finance ability. So she contacts me and I look into what I can but I am no lawyer...

    I discover Experto Credite is now under Liquidation and her Dec-Jan Statement provides a refund of that £1.00 on ironically the 4th of Jan.... One day after???! Being informed its under a investigation and litigation department.... http://www.expertocredite.com/

    This has gone way over my legal knowledge but surely PRA was responsible for informing my mother that the company was under liquidation... Or that they weren't paying... To investigate this third party who was being paid.... The totals from the statements also don't match up to the statement in the claim.... 54 is not correct that's even less. She has only missed 1 payment because it was refunded, she wasn't informed at all of anything. This can't be fair or legal. And the Claimant in their statement has completely ignored the fact there is a payment plan in effect, that they have acknowledged this plan, stated nothing will change.....

    I am lost in how to put a defense down, as its unfair, even though there is no signed agreement which doesn't matter anyway apparently CCA 2006, she has always paid it. This can't be legal, any help, identifying legislation, OFT guideline, code of practice or just how to act would be appreciated.

    I am getting in touch with a financial Ombudsman on Monday, also Citizen Advice, then gaining statements for every single month to prove payments, I have copies of all these letters. But pretty sure in a defense you can only have like 200 characters. And defense on what grounds....

    How can a claim be like this even be able to be filed....
    Last edited by Wayne11; 26th February 2017, 19:16:PM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

    Do you have a copy of the original agreement that you can post up whether it was signed or not? If so can you post up please, removing personal details. Can you post up a copy of the County Court claim form, again removing personal details? Mc

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

      Hi McGinty, thanks so much for your reply

      There was never a Original Agreement Signed or recieved, she completed everything over the phone and then a credit card was sent with instructions, which she no longer has. I have attached a copy of the County Court Claim.

      There are also errors in the particulars, the first amount mentioned, which was outstanding by the original creditor NBNA is wrong. I have a letter from that exact day from NBNA stating a different amount if that matters?

      Also there is no mention of Experto Credite, or that Varda Internationals had been assigned it first, who then sent it to Aktiv Kapital. As well as the amounts donT really add up. It says on the 29/02/12 the debt was 6895.76 and the sum now is 6838.76.... which is 57? but they say they have only recieved 54.... plus when bank statements are seen more than 57 was sent.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

        I think this needs the correct advice and is beyond my experience but I do think they need an agreement actually signed or esigned (Particularly given the date you say she took the card out originally) and they should have sent a copy to your mother shortly after she took the account out. I personally don't see how they can to proceed without this. Have you asked them for a copy of the agreement? What is the issue date on the Court Claim Form? I will try to bring someone in on this who will give you better advice than me. Mc

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

          Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
          On the 30th she also received a letter from Experto Credite stating Varde Investments (Ireland) has bought the interest of NBNA including the outstanding balance. Thus the legal owner of the account. Under the terms of this assignment Experto Credite have been appointed to recover any and all debt. (I have this letter). She replied after numerous calls and letters on the 14th august 2010 (I have this letter copy)

          . . . . On the 26/04/2012 a letter was received by Aktiv Kapital stating they have purchased the account from Varde Investments. With an outstanding balance of £6,893.76. They have stated they have been advised of a payment arrangement set up with Experto Credite. And although they own the account, "you should still continue to make your payments to Experto Credite" "Experto Credite will advise us of all the payments you make so we can keep your account up to date" (I have this letter)

          . . . . Then on 24/01/2017 she is sent a County Court Claim Form.
          Can you clarify something important first.

          You say in the above post that she was sent a County Court Claim Form on 24th January 2017.

          At the beginning of your post you say the claim Issue Date is 21st February 2017.

          On which date was it issued?

          I've highlighted other issues which I would like to respond to tomorrow.

          Sadly being honourable and paying a debt by arrangement does not prevent a creditor from issuing court proceedings for the balance owed. However other factors may prevent them from winning that claim.

          The fact that Experto Credite have gone into liquidation is a red herring.

          The fact that Varde investments bought the debt is relevant. The fact that PRA has not mentioned the assignment from MBNA to Varde in the POC is interesting.

          Di

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

            Thanks Diana M

            Sorry for the typo, the county court claim was sent on the 21/02/2017... Nothing was sent on the 24th

            Yes the company has indeed gone into liquidation, I would be interested to know how this effects them and how to put it into a defence. I do have a letter stating that the debt has been purchased by Varde International and that Experto Credite is representing them to gain the monies.

            I did wonder if they must list how they gained the assignment as it was not through MBNA.

            Cheers I look forward to your reply!! Wayne
            Last edited by Wayne11; 26th February 2017, 19:05:PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

              Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
              A request was asked for the original creditor to send a Agreement copy but they never did... it was then passed to MJP Justice when the whole courts were going through the enforcement ability, but we never recieved one or a reconstructed on.
              Was that a formal s.78 CCA Request together with a £1 postal order for the statutory fee?

              Were MJP Justice engaged by your mother as a Claims Management Company?

              Di

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
                Thanks Diana M

                Sorry for the typo, the county court claim was sent on the 21/02/2017... Nothing was sent on the 24th
                *Phew* I was worried you'd missed the deadline to file the Acknowledgement of Service which must be done within 19 days of the claim Issue Date.

                Go online a file the AOS stating you (your mother) intends to "defend all of the claim". You'll feel better once you've done that because it means you're taking control of the situation instead of the situation taking control of you.

                Be careful not to enter anything in the "Defence" section which is a mistake easily made.

                The Defence deadline is 33 days from the claim issue Date. They'll be work to do before then

                I need to know a bit more about the request you sent for a copy of the credit agreement.

                Was the request sent to MBNA, Experto Credite, Aktiv Kapital or PRA? You have probably said this in an earlier post so my apologies for not making time to read back.

                Don't send a new request until you've answered my questions.

                If there's a s.78 CCA Request which has not been complied with then nothing is gained by sending another. In fact it may make matters worse.

                Di

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                  Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
                  I do have a letter stating that the debt has been purchased by Varde International and that Experto Credite is representing them
                  I saw that.

                  I also saw that you have a letter from Aktiv Kapital stating that they had purchased the debt from Varde/Experto Credite.

                  Tomorrow I'll suggest you send a Subject Access Request to MBNA and also to PRA. I'll tell you why then.

                  Di

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                    MJP Justice who my mother gained contacts through contacted NBNA over a year before a letter was sent by my mother to Experto Credite on the 14th of August 2010 (So somewhere in 2009). Requesting a signed agreement. The letter states by the best of her knowledge they have never produced any. I have attached the letter as I feel it will be better understood. Sadly she cant find any letter/copies from MJP. Therefore I am not sure if it was a s.78 request :?

                    I cant thank you enough for this help, this will sound supid. But will defending against the entire amount mean she is saying it never existed, or does it mean she is just defending the entire amount being unenforcable?

                    Really? nothing in the defence... Ok thanks for that tip!! I dont mind the work

                    Wayne
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                      Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
                      MJP Justice who my mother gained contacts through contacted NBNA over a year before a letter was sent by my mother to Experto Credite on the 14th of August 2010 (So somewhere in 2009). Requesting a signed agreement. The letter states by the best of her knowledge they have never produced any. I have attached the letter as I feel it will be better understood. Sadly she cant find any letter/copies from MJP. Therefore I am not sure if it was a s.78 request :?
                      It appears your mother has nothing concrete (to put before a court) to say that the Claimant is in default (inherited from Experto Credite/Varde) of her s.78 CCA Request.

                      Send one tomorrow by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery to PRA. This forum has a template here > http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...=7670#post7670

                      From what you say PRA have not instructed external solicitors so send the CCA Request c/o Surjit Gida the Legal Representative at the address given on the Claim Form.

                      Di

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                        Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
                        this will sound supid. But will defending against the entire amount mean she is saying it never existed, or does it mean she is just defending the entire amount being unenforcable?
                        It's early days to know what your Defence will be.

                        A wise DJ once said "we're here to judge facts not morals". The point being it's not about whether the money was borrowed or spent, it's about whether there is a lawful contract allowing the current owner of the debt (if they can prove they lawfully own the debt) to collect it.

                        Di
                        Last edited by Diana M; 27th February 2017, 09:55:AM. Reason: typo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                          Regarding the request of original agreements, I have found the following documents, im not sure if it helps in it lawfulness via the current owner??

                          I need to send two messages as its reached its limit.

                          Thank you,

                          Wayne
                          Last edited by Wayne11; 9th March 2017, 20:31:PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                            2 of 2 - Wayne

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Please Help: County Court Claim

                              Originally posted by Wayne11 View Post
                              Regarding the request of original agreements, I have found the following documents, im not sure if it helps in it lawfulness via the current owner??
                              Did the CMC send your mother the credit agreement which they received? Or was it just a letter which said they had not complied? The covering letter from the creditor is important too.

                              They don't say they received 'nothing' they say they didn't receive a "true copy" which complies with regulations. This implies that they may have received a reconstituted copy but it's not for me to comment on whether their judgment of it's compliance was accurate. Or whether they took into consideration that there is always the potential for a creditor to reconstitute a better version unless the original (which they say doesn't exist) was irredeemably unenforceable.

                              They refer to sending £11 to the creditor so I presume this meant they sent a s.78 Request (£1) and a SAR (£10). Did they forward all the paperwork they received from the s.78 Request and from the SAR to your mother?

                              Either way the SAR will be out of date since that was 2009 and the account wasn't assigned to Vardy until later (?).

                              Di

                              Comment

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