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Thread: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Date 21

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  1. #26
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Diana M

    Thank you for your post and sorry for the delay in responding. I'm afraid I just had to try and switch off for a little while as I have not been too good today and that together with the added worry of this whole situation was becoming too much......hence my rather vague (not to mention a little incoherent ) and somewhat panicky post earlier......sorry about that, but I feel sure you understand.

    Are you saying that you had been paying for PPI despite having health issues since birth? If that policy was missold (or in some cases customers didn't even know it had been added to their account) then it may well be relevant to this claim.
    Yes. The card was originally under the 'Homebase' brand and at a time of considerable stress whilst trying to sort bathroom adaptions for my father I was 'door-stepped' in the local Homebase store by (presumably) an MBNA (or Homebase?) sales team. In truth I recall it being easier to answer the chap with the clipboard as "it'll only take a couple of minutes" WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WAS

    He completed the paperwork and I (probably) just signed it.....I really can't recall now. If memory serves the initial card was issued by 'Visa' though later became a 'Mastercard' both under the Homebase brand for MBNA.

    In order to comply with your CCA Request they would have to produce the PPI details (Ts & Cs) as well as the credit agreement
    OK, that's interesting ....see below

    There's nothing you need to do in response to that letter.

    It's an admission that they haven't got your credit agreement in their possession at this moment in time.
    Apologies for my panicky post....sometimes I bottle it a bit, especially when not so well..

    I think I am a little more rational again now so I will try to elaborate upon my concerns. Some years ago (around the time of the default or just before) I investigated the PPI (which in any case was a relatively small sum with premiums amounting to just £337.68 through the lifetime of the card) with an organisation called Cartel and their related company Consumer Credit Litigation Solicitors.

    I believe there was then some who-ha resulting in licences being revoked by FCA &/or Solicitors Regulation Authority &/or Law Society and having heard nothing I received a file of papers from the Solicitor's Regulation Authority I think around 4 years ago (in relation to the MBNA account) following their closure.

    That could change so don't get overly excited.
    Now the concern which makes me most anxious....the file included the contents of an SAR and CCA obtained back then and though this is not now I guess I EXPECT the same documents to ultimately be forthcoming ...even if PRA are being invited to jump the same hoops as we speak!

    In the light of your comments I have reviewed the file returned to me by Gordon's LLB (the solicitor appointed by the SRA) and find that the (then CCA) consists of a single page signed by me filled in by the above door-stepper who HAD ticked 'yes' to PPI. Under section 5 of the single page CCA (5. WE RECOMMEND PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER) which contains two check boxes "Yes" & "No" accompanying the following text:

    Safeguard your payments against life's unpredictable events with our Payment Protection Cover for just 68 pence per £100 of your statement balance. Payment Protection Cover is designed to protect your ability to make repayments to your MBNA credit card in the event that you are unable to work due to an accident, sickness or involuntary unemployment. Valuable life cover up to £15,000, is also included. We strongly recommend that you take out this cover. For cover, just tick the Yes box, to confirm that you are eligible and have read and understood the terms and conditions
    Needless to say no T's and C's were ever offered, or even discussed nor was any aspect of eligibility which given that Section 3 Employment Details recorded me as being 'Retired' this would suggest ineligibility both on the grounds of Long Term Health AND that of Employment Status??

    Also enclosed were 4 additional pages of T's & C's for the card (BUT NOT the PPI). I have now inspected the Credit Card T's & C's in detail and only the briefest of references is made to PPI under the following three conditions.....

    Under Condition 10 "Ending this Agreement - 10d If you end this agreement, we will cancel any payment protection cover which you have taken through us for this agreement.

    Under Condition 12 (if even relevant?) "Changing your name or address or insurance provider - 12b If you ask us to arrange insurance on your behalf, we will treat this as your authority to advise on, manage and cancel any insurance policy for you and enter into a new policy with a different insurer if we consider it to be in your best interests. Before we do this, we will tell you the terms offered for a further policy period by your current insurer, or if your current insurer no longer offers the policy, the terms of a policy offered by the alternate insurer. Unless you tell us otherwise, the authority outlined in this paragraph 12b represents your prior request for us to transfer you to such a new policy in these circumstances. You can withdraw this prior request at any time by writing to MBNA Insurance Services, MBNA Europe Bank Limited, Chester Business Park, Chester CH4 9QQ.

    Under Condition 14 "Definitions" "Payment Protection Cover - any insurance product we may offer which is designed to protect your repayments under this agreement"
    Also enclosed was 8 pages of statement printout covering 8th Dec 2003 (First use of Card) to 10th Sept 2009 that was the entire contents of the CCA/SAR made on my behalf in 2009 to the subsequently defunct Consumer Credit Litigation Sols.

    If it helps I can scan these to pdf and maybe PM you as it might be a useful time saver??

    Was hoping my replies would get simpler

    Best regards

    PC Pilot
    Last edited by PC Pilot; 7th March 2017 at 13:18:PM.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Diana M,

    I am sure you've been amazingly busy assisting the poor folks like me on Legal Beagles....so grateful on behalf of us all that you dedicate your time so.

    Interested to hear your comments on my reply to your post (post 25) in due course.

    As you can imagine I remain rather troubled by all of this, and reading through these forums the sheer volume of CCJ's initiated by the PRA Group is quite disturbing and to a lay person suggests they must achieve success on a frequent basis for it to be worth their efforts.....I am sure you have this fully covered given your wealth of experience.

    Whilst searching information on the PRA Group and their shady practices I came across the following case which is nearly identical in both circumstances and date of CCJ to my own.....I wonder just how many other people have been stung in the wake of Experto Credite's recent liquidation??

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...edit-card-debt

    Is there anything unorthodox in PRA's tactics in these 'returned Standing Order payment' cases which can be used in any defence if (as noted in my reply (post 26)) the documents subsequently arrive as anticipated??

    Regards

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi PC Pilot, this is very intresting as this was how I first heard about these , my standing order just stopped , I never cancelled it then PRA group came in , they never explained what they where doing and tried to phone me once and I told them to do one as I had never heard of them. The liquidation of Experto has never been explained to me , I guess the whole system is broke and leeches like PRA threive on it . I am waiting to see what hassle they will give me on the 14th. Keep going

  4. #29
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Quote Originally Posted by PC Pilot View Post
    Hi Diana M

    Thank you for your post and sorry for the delay in responding. I'm afraid I just had to try and switch off for a little while as I have not been too good today and that together with the added worry of this whole situation was becoming too much......hence my rather vague (not to mention a little incoherent ) and somewhat panicky post earlier......sorry about that, but I feel sure you understand.



    Yes. The card was originally under the 'Homebase' brand and at a time of considerable stress whilst trying to sort bathroom adaptions for my father I was 'door-stepped' in the local Homebase store by (presumably) an MBNA (or Homebase?) sales team. In truth I recall it being easier to answer the chap with the clipboard as "it'll only take a couple of minutes" WHAT A MISTAKE THAT WAS

    He completed the paperwork and I (probably) just signed it.....I really can't recall now. If memory serves the initial card was issued by 'Visa' though later became a 'Mastercard' both under the Homebase brand for MBNA.



    OK, that's interesting ....see below



    Apologies for my panicky post....sometimes I bottle it a bit, especially when not so well..

    I think I am a little more rational again now so I will try to elaborate upon my concerns. Some years ago (around the time of the default or just before) I investigated the PPI (which in any case was a relatively small sum with premiums amounting to just £337.68 through the lifetime of the card) with an organisation called Cartel and their related company Consumer Credit Litigation Solicitors.

    I believe there was then some who-ha resulting in licences being revoked by FCA &/or Solicitors Regulation Authority &/or Law Society and having heard nothing I received a file of papers from the Solicitor's Regulation Authority I think around 4 years ago (in relation to the MBNA account) following their closure.



    Now the concern which makes me most anxious....the file included the contents of an SAR and CCA obtained back then and though this is not now I guess I EXPECT the same documents to ultimately be forthcoming ...even if PRA are being invited to jump the same hoops as we speak!

    In the light of your comments I have reviewed the file returned to me by Gordon's LLB (the solicitor appointed by the SRA) and find that the (then CCA) consists of a single page signed by me filled in by the above door-stepper who HAD ticked 'yes' to PPI. Under section 5 of the single page CCA (5. WE RECOMMEND PAYMENT PROTECTION COVER) which contains two check boxes "Yes" & "No" accompanying the following text:



    Needless to say no T's and C's were ever offered, or even discussed nor was any aspect of eligibility which given that Section 3 Employment Details recorded me as being 'Retired' this would suggest ineligibility both on the grounds of Long Term Health AND that of Employment Status??

    Also enclosed were 4 additional pages of T's & C's for the card (BUT NOT the PPI). I have now inspected the Credit Card T's & C's in detail and only the briefest of references is made to PPI under the following three conditions.....



    Also enclosed was 8 pages of statement printout covering 8th Dec 2003 (First use of Card) to 10th Sept 2009 that was the entire contents of the CCA/SAR made on my behalf in 2009 to the subsequently defunct Consumer Credit Litigation Sols.

    If it helps I can scan these to pdf and maybe PM you as it might be a useful time saver??

    Was hoping my replies would get simpler

    Best regards

    PC Pilot
    Hello PC Pilot

    I would wait and see what PRA provide in response to your s.78 request.

    As this is a small claim it is only relevant what they disclose as the agreement as there is no duty to disclose by you.

    You were wondering why your standing order (& others) were suddenly cancelled which led to you breaching your payment agreement and to the claim form being served. As you do not seem to be an isolated case it could possibly be:-

    1. Human error
    2. PRA changed their bank account details
    3. You are home owners and they are looking to obtain judgment and then secure the debt on the property
    Last edited by Joanna C; 11th March 2017 at 07:43:AM.
    I am a solicitor who specializes in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. My leading case of Carey v HSBC set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with s.77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Quote Originally Posted by PC Pilot View Post
    Hi Diana M,

    I am sure you've been amazingly busy assisting the poor folks like me on Legal Beagles....so grateful on behalf of us all that you dedicate your time so.

    Interested to hear your comments on my reply to your post (post 25) in due course.

    As you can imagine I remain rather troubled by all of this, and reading through these forums the sheer volume of CCJ's initiated by the PRA Group is quite disturbing and to a lay person suggests they must achieve success on a frequent basis for it to be worth their efforts.....I am sure you have this fully covered given your wealth of experience.

    Whilst searching information on the PRA Group and their shady practices I came across the following case which is nearly identical in both circumstances and date of CCJ to my own.....I wonder just how many other people have been stung in the wake of Experto Credite's recent liquidation??

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...edit-card-debt

    Is there anything unorthodox in PRA's tactics in these 'returned Standing Order payment' cases which can be used in any defence if (as noted in my reply (post 26)) the documents subsequently arrive as anticipated??

    Regards

    PC Pilot

    I have have read the thread you have linked to.

    I would confirm that contrary to what is being stated on that thread assignees of debt (i. e PRA, Hoist Portfolio, Cabot, Lowells) etc are treated as creditors under the Unfair Relationship provisions in the Consumer Credit Act.
    I am a solicitor who specializes in consumer credit and my firm is Joanna Connolly Solicitors. My leading case of Carey v HSBC set the legal precedents for creditors compliance with s.77 & 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 statutory requests & enforcement of debts in court.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email jo@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk. Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on Legal Beagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide on the forum is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Joanna C

    Thank you for the very prompt response to my reply to Diana M's post.....your kind words are very much appreciated.

    You will have noted my concern about the documents ultimately being forthcoming as per the CCA request by Cartel/Consumer Credit Litigation Solicitors a number of years ago and I am simply seeking to envision a defence were this to be so.... as you have suggested I should try to be more patient I guess!

    The returned Standing Order in my opinion is most likely due to 2. Change of Bank.... My understanding is that this is very much linked to the liquidation of Experto Credite and as I (and others) have noted this seems grossly unfair (to my simple concept of natural justice at least) that they can do this, initiate a CCJ and never supply a clear and simple replacement mandate indicating the change. I appreciate that they can perhaps indicate that their many (unanswered) calls were to do this.....even if as we all know they are more a part of the DC industry's strong arm practices devised to extract unaffordable amounts by their "pursuasive telephone techniques".

    Your summary of reasons does alarm me however, in respect of your point 3. .....securing a debt against property.

    Given my rather chaotic fall into debt detailed in the first post I was left no time to grieve, let alone to think and NO spare funds leaving even major problems settling the funeral debt at the time. Accordingly the application for probate was not made for nearly 2 years as I could not afford the £90 fee and being an only child and sole beneficiary of my father's estate this was very much academic in the circumstances.

    Probate was granted to me alone, the only asset being my father's property (my home) and given the lack of funds no changes were considered necessary or ever made and thus the property effectively remains in the name Pers Reps to my father (deceased) and thus title never vested in my name. Perhaps in view of these debt paracites that has been useful thus far?... but I would not wish to see them add to my pain any further by securing this doubtful debt against my home as any disclosure to the court might bring

    Thank you also for your expertise in respect of the Unfair Relationship Provisions mentioned elsewhere on another forum....might this form a valid option for defence were the documents requested under CCA/CPR/SAR correspondence last month to be forthcoming?

    Sorry for the repeated questioning, this is constantly playing on my mind.....as a result I can't sleep properly (not that has ever been good with my Muscular Dystrophy ).....and feel that all of this is just dragging me further down and wish to see this either returned to the £1 per month....or better yet dismissed.

    Best regards

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna C View Post
    I have have read the thread you have linked to.

    I would confirm that contrary to what is being stated on that thread assignees of debt (i. e PRA, Hoist Portfolio, Cabot, Lowells) etc are treated as creditors under the Unfair Relationship provisions in the Consumer Credit Act.
    Just to confirm this see section 189 of the CCA 1974 'Definitions'

    “creditor ” means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit agreement, includes the prospective creditor;
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/189
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    ****If you upload documents to your thread, please ensure you have redacted any personal data FIRST***

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Quote Originally Posted by PC Pilot View Post
    I was pondering that one too......If it helps Experto Credite appear to have gone into liquidation late last year.......

    PC Pilot

    - - - Updated - - -

    The plot thickens!!😬
    Lets hope that this is true, one more evil removed!

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Amethyst.....and thanks for the provision of such an informative and truly helpful site.....your foresight in establishing this valuable resource is most commendable!

    Your clarification above of the obligations required of debt assignee's vis a vis Section 189 illustrates why those of us who find ourselves in this regrettable position find this forum essential when attempting to navigate the legal complexities which suddenly come our way as a County Court Claim drops through the letterbox....so thanks again on behalf of everyone!

    No doubt over simplistically I look at what has happened to me and regard several factors in particular as being most unfair and (unguided) would have formed the 'uneducated' basis of defence these are as follows.......no doubt I am missing the obvious and the legal beagle gurus like yourself will suggest a far more robust and legally representative defence in due course. None the less would appreciate any observations/comments on these to aid my "education".

    1. Identifiable intent on my part to meet the negotiated Payment Plan never having missed a payment since it was established in 2012.

    2. No attempt to inform me in writing of the collapse of Experto Credite in 2016 and its implications for me.

    3. Payments simply returned to my bank thus providing 'excuse' for a 'technical' payment plan default.

    4. No provision of revised Standing Order mandate with updated Bank Details to ensure continuity of payments. In my experience with other debts this was generally the case.

    5. Highly confusing ping pong of assignee's/agents each indicating just a change of name and thus not requiring any change of payment bank details. On reflection these tactics could appear a quite deliberate means of creating a reason to call them?

    6. Incomplete or improper documentation in respect of assignments - covered of course in the CPR request immediately identified by Charitynjw after my initial post.

    Best regards,

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2534 View Post
    Lets hope that this is true, one more evil removed!
    I have checked :
    Experto Credite Limited – in Creditors’ Voluntary Liquidation
    Registered number: 6022748 / FCA Registration number 717712
    Registered office at the date of liquidation: Inspired, Easthampstead Road, Bracknell, RG12 1NS
    Future/current registered office: c/o Smith & Williamson LLP, 4th Floor Cumberland House, 15-17 Cumberland Place, Southampton, SO15 2BG
    (the registered office is being relocated to the liquidators’ offices and this will be effective in early December)
    On 24 November 2016 David Blenkarn and Greg Palfrey of Smith & Williamson LLP were appointed joint liquidators of Experto Credite Limited.
    Experto Credite Limited has ceased to trade.
    Any trading, operating, financial or employee creditors may contact the liquidators using the details set out below.
    To persons making payments to Experto Credite Limited in respect of loan and other balances (“customers” or “borrowers”):
    The Company’s policy and practice was that borrowers’ payments should be kept separately from the Company’s own funds in bank accounts held for that specific purpose.
    The Company’s debt collection accounts are being or have, in some cases, already been closed. Payments to these accounts made after the relevant account closures will be returned by the banks to the remitters (customers).
    It is intended that any payments made prior to the final account closures will be transmitted to the relevant lender to reduce the borrower’s account balance with them.
    The liquidators do not presently have live access to customer records and therefore have limited ability to respond to enquiries about individual borrowers’ circumstances.
    Any enquiries should now be directed to the joint liquidators using the details below:
    By post to: Smith & Williamson LLP, 4th Floor Cumberland House, 15-17 Cumberland Place, Southampton, SO15 2BG
    All post should be marked “Experto Credite Limited – for the attention of Sam Tovey”
    By telephone: 023 8082 7646
    By e-mail: sam.tovey@smithandwilliamson.com
    Please ensure that your e-mail has the subject line “Experto Credite Limited”



    Experto Credite Limited
    frequently asked questions

    We have set out below some frequently asked questions for consumers making debt repayments to Experto Credite Limited, please also note the following three points regarding future payments:

    1. Please do not send any further payments to Experto Credite Limited by post, bank transfer or otherwise.
    2. Please cancel any standing orders or direct debit instructions in favour of Experto Credite Limited with your bank.
    3. Your loan or debt has been passed back to the lender (or a new agent) to administer only they can deal with ongoing enquiries.

    Goodbye to bad rubbish, one less leech about!

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    I can't imagine anyone on these forums will mourn their passing......perhaps those who pushed the buttons at the top will now feel the pain of those they hounded.

    Unfortunately, I somehow doubt it.......these guys are generally coated in Teflon and before too long those who drifted the Experto Credite ship onto the rocks will probably be rewarded with a similar high profile role with a major lender or elsewhere in the UK's already blighted finance industry.

    I hope I am wrong in this rather rash assumption......only time will tell!!

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Quote Originally Posted by jack89 View Post
    Hi I wish I know where I was with this , my debt is over 9 years old , and I was paying it under an agreed process, I wish I knew why everyone is saying why experto are an important link as I was paying them for years and have some paperwork.

    Good luck PC Pilot you are not alone.
    Same letter same court same default I've been paying £1 a month for about 6 years now this recent default from PRA don't k now what they trying on but its like they pulled people in on mass with same letters of default I hope we can get these suckers nailed mate stay strong this cannot be right perry1.

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Perry1 I also noticed cases similar to mine concerning PRA even in amount paid back on one they said idefaulted 2006 later on they said they got last payment 2016 what's going on.

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Perry,

    Thanks for that, it's driving me to distraction.....I do really agree and that's why I suspect it's something to do with (or else at the very least providing a 'useful' excuse for) the Experto Credite collapse....trawling this forum just before came across yet another very similar case to both of ours....http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...ty-Court-Claim

    .....just how many of us are out there??

    In respect of the default anomaly......the date corresponds to the date of issue of MBNA's original notice of default perhaps?? ....and not the 'technically' defaulted debt payment plan of 2016/17....

    Regards,

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi to Di, Jo and all...

    Just a brief heads up with latest update:

    1. I have today received a 4 line (standard?) acknowledgement of receipt to the SAR request dated 9th March 2017 from MBNA. It confirms that they are processing the request and that it may take up to 40 days but that they will send it "as soon as we can".......is this likely to be problem??

    2. Still no letter from Bank.....chased again today......advised it is in post and that payments since inception are confirmed. Call referred to a 'manager' who 'suggested' that a court would attach more weight to the account statements in any case rather than to any letter confirming payments made (I have all 22 Statements relating to this account from which these £1 payments were/are made).....not sure if this is the case?

    3. Still NO response from the request for documents in respect of the CPR from PRA's legal rep......how much time do they have to respond? Do I need to do anything else with 10 days to run to defence deadline?

    Thanks in advance,

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi again to all,

    Update on yesterday's post:

    Still no response to CPR request......is time now running short on this?

    I have today received the letter from my Bank (which was requested in case the argument surrounding the 'technical' default created by the liquidation of Experto Credite were required as part of any defence in so far as proof of 'intent' to pay).

    Quite simply, I requested written confirmation of the following factual information:

    1. The date of inception of the Standing Order
    2. ALL payments having successfully left the account from inception to date
    3. That NO payments were ever missed throughout this entire period
    4. That I did not cancel the Standing Order
    5. That no instructions to amend the recipient (Experto Credite) Bank details were ever received from the recipient or its agents
    6. That payments for Jan, Feb & Mar 2017 were all returned as bank details "not valid or they are unable to accept payments"

    In spite of clarifying this with a senior employee unbelievably what I have received is a letter stating that 'the Standing Order is now cancelled'.............is it just me or does anyone else feel that dealing with these institutions is like pulling teeth......Aghhh!!

    The matter has been referred to management and is ongoing......I can only hope that you guys feel it is unnecessary for any defence?? Just trying to stay focused and prepared....

    Best regards,

    PC Pilot

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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    The £1 negotiated arrangement - how was that set up - was it a written agreement - with a consequence for breach on either side ? These arrangements are usually informal and for limited periods and when a debt is sold on the new owner can chose to call in the entire debt or continue accepting the £1. I don't believe the court claim has arisen from your payments of £1 stopping going through - more that PRA now own the debt, got it for a bargain ( like 9% of the value) and want to fill their coffers up a bit quicker. I really wouldn't get too sidetracked/concentrated on that issue. The main issue I have with the £1 is that you were paying it for 7 years, and had you not, the debt could well have been statute barred by now, and it has made no difference to the amount you owe, just kept it alive in the background.

    Defence wise - the agreement still hasn't surfaced despite your CCA formal request. It sounds as though it is unlikely to. They haven't sent default notice/notice of assignment after your CPr request. They haven't evidenced they have a valid claim.

    Have you had a read through the example defence ?- you have a week or so to get your defence filed ( due around 24th March ?) so it is worth making a start and ensuring you have it as strong as you can at this stage. http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-Court-Claims

    You sound like there may be some PPI issues in there so you can make mention of the misselling, very briefly, so that the issue can be expanded upon should the agreement turn up and be completely valid.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  18. #43
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Amethyst,

    Thanks for the timely response.....I guess I was looking at the seemingly natural injustice here rather than the 'real' basis of a legal defence upon which I confess to being lost! As suggested, I will review the example defence link you have helpfully provided and post my adapted version here for your subsequent advice/approval.

    As suggested I will look to incorporate a brief reference to the PPI misselling.......should this revolve around the issue of the unsuitability owing to my pre-existing disability or just on the lack of supporting documentation?

    You are spot on in respect of the £1 arrangement. It was set up in writing between my disabled advocate/debt counsellor and Experto Credite who's letter agreeing to the prospective £1 offer at the time contained the following paragraph "If your payments stop at any time without us agreeing to your non-payment, the full balance will become payable immediately". ....hence my (perhaps incorrect) connection between the collapse of Experto Credite and the CCJ!

    I agree also with your observations regarding the time period of 7 years with negligible impact on the debt but remaining active throughout and thus is not becoming statute barred

    My worry about the CCA/SAR/CPR documents was raised previously in post 26......do you suspect that it is not likely that copies of these documents (provided elsewhere in 2009) would not surface again now via the PRA Group as I fear?

    Thanks again, your guidance is much appreciated.

    PC Pilot

  19. #44
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi to all,

    Would very much appreciate your expert input in respect of the adapted text below representing an initial draft of my proposed defence. In particular whether there any crucial omissions/errors, the basis of the defence is reasonable or not and any suggested revisions to improve/clarify as necessary.

    Many thanks,

    PROPOSED DEFENCE
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1: I received the claim [Claim Number XXX] from the County Court Business Centre on 23rd February 2017

    2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

    3: This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    4: It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with MBNA Europe Bank for provision of credit.

    5. Said agreement included an unsolicited provision of Payment Protection Insurance, eligibility for which was contrary to my long term health status.

    6: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

    7. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from MBNA to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio AS, Oslo, Zug Branch on 29th February 2012 and subsequently to PRA Group (UK) Ltd on 31st December 2014. The Defendant does not:
    a) recall receiving notice of this assignment.
    b) recognise the name of the assignee having correspondence indicating otherwise

    8. It is denied that MBNA served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

    9: On the 27th February 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Surjit Gida (Claimant's Legal Representative). I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice, Deeds of Assignment, Notices of Assignment and Formal Demand.

    10. The Claimant's Legal Representative has not sent any of these documents to me.

    11. On the 27th February 2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to PRA Group (UK) Ltd pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

    12. The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s 78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

    13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

    14. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

    15. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

    16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

    Statement of Truth

    The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.



    Signed…………………………………………

    Dated .................................................. ....


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  20. #45
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    If it were me (as you are admitting having an agreement with the original creditor) I'd think about a brief mention of that £1 payment which was erroneously cancelled.
    That seems to be the reason why this court claim started?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  21. #46
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Charity,

    Thanks for your response....

    Wasn't sure on the admission bit to be frank.....perhaps (wrongly?) obvious to me given that £1 payments were being made?

    There is some debate from other posters (see post 42 above) as to whether that was indeed precipitative in bringing the claim and indeed (as I had thought - see posts 40 & 41 above) forming part of the defence....as ever I will defer to wiser heads!

    What form would you suggest most relevant?

    Thanks,

    PC Pilot

  22. #47
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Yep, I concur; leave as is.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  23. #48
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    OK & thanks....will see if any other suggestions/comments etc. are forthcoming in case I've missed anything.....I have till deadline of 24th Mar

    PC Pilot

  24. #49
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi Di, Jo and all

    I am sure you are all very busy with your various case loads so appreciate all input as and when you are available...

    In particular in respect of the proposed defence above (post 44) I am keen to:

    a) Assure that the content and presentation is an appropriate defence given my particular claim?
    b) Confirm that the admission at point 4 is an appropriate interpretation on my part of the nominal payments as previously agreed?
    c) Confirm whether at point 7 b) I need to be more specific in respect of Varde International or is this a case (as quoted elsewhere) of
    at the early stage of litigation less is more
    ?
    d) Identify if I have overlooked any other vital information for a robust defence?

    Needless to say I have still not received ANY response from PRA's Legal Representative in respect of the 7 day CPR Request (now 16 days since they received the letter!) for the documents listed in the POC........do I need to chase these?.....or is that not sensible at this point?

    At what date would you recommend that I lodge the defence?.......can I do this entirely online (as a pdf or word document) or will a letter be required? ......if you recall I do not currently have a working printer .....so trying to plan ahead.......I have calculated the defence deadline as 24th March (hopefully correctly!!)

    Sorry to keep asking questions........just wanting to be properly prepared

    Thanks again and best regards

    PC Pilot

    Ps. Though probably not relevant (as previously suggested) I have now received a suitable letter from the bank confirming the main points identified in post 41!

  25. #50
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    Default Re: PRA Group for Ex MBNA Debt - CCJ Claim Form - Received Today 23.02.17 - Issue Dat

    Hi again Jo, Di, all...

    Feel quite rude in chasing this when you're all so busy both on here in your free time (v grateful ) so apologies for that....

    Planning ahead just in case I need to draft/send letters and if so, will need to organise a printer ......unless I can post online or attach as a pdf to an email in case of court defence submission??....

    Btw...Just had today's post.......still no response from PRA's Legal bod to CPR request for docs in POC.......now 11 days past 7 day deadline since they signed for it on 1st March.....

    Thanks,

    PC Pilot

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