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  1. #51
    captain sam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Having said early on in your defence that the CCA 1974 does not apply, you can't then go on to refer to it in later points.

    I removed what was point 7. How is it looking now? Any help appreciated.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by cptsam View Post
    I removed what was point 7. How is it looking now? Any help appreciated.
    Point 8 also refers to the CCA.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Having said early on in your defence that the CCA 1974 does not apply, you can't then go on to refer to it in later points.
    Thanks, amended. What about point 3&4?

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by cptsam View Post
    Thanks, amended. What about point 3&4?
    Not sure about that. As I understand it you are not contesting that an agreement was entered into, but that there were subsequent, unevidenced attempts to make charges for services that remain unclear?

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Having said early on in your defence that the CCA 1974 does not apply, you can't then go on to refer to it in later points.
    Thanks @Arcadian

    Anyone can help please? I need to submit defense today by 4pm....

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    For information of thread, this is what was submitted. I hope I haven't done anything fundementally wrong...

    Code:
    1: I received the claim xxx from the Northampton County Court on 15 February 2017.
    
    
    2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is 
    denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
    
    
    
    
    3: This claim appears to be for] a mobile agreement not regulated 
    under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
    
    
    
    
    4: It is denied that the Defendant has previously entered into an 
    agreement with T-Mobile. 
    
    
    
    
    4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate 
    information to enable me to properly assess my position with 
    regards the claim. 
    
    
    
    
    5. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was 
    assigned from T-Mobile to Lowell Portfolio on 12/08/2016. The 
    Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
    
    
    6: On 4 March 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents 
    mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure 
    Rule 31.14 to Claimant's Solicitor. I requested the Claimant 
    provide copies of the Agreement and Notice of Assignment.
    
    
    7. Claimant's Solicitor has not sent the Agreement to me.
    
    
    8. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a 
    money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any 
    allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved 
    unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is 
    expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation 
    that the money is owed as claimed.
    
    
    
    
    9. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the 
    necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case 
    else the Claim should stand struck out.
    
    
    
    
    10. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the 
    Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and 
    would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
    
    
    
    
    11. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as 
    claimed or at all.

  7. #57
    Arcadian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Not sure about that. As I understand it you are not contesting that an agreement was entered into, but that there were subsequent, unevidenced attempts to make charges for services that remain unclear?
    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    For information of thread, this is what was submitted. I hope I haven't done anything fundementally wrong...

    Code:
    1: I received the claim xxx from the Northampton County Court on 15 February 2017.
    
    
    2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is 
    denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
    
    
    
    
    3: This claim appears to be for] a mobile agreement not regulated 
    under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
    
    
    
    
    4: It is denied that the Defendant has previously entered into an 
    agreement with T-Mobile. 
    
    
    
    
    4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate 
    information to enable me to properly assess my position with 
    regards the claim. 
    
    
    
    
    5. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was 
    assigned from T-Mobile to Lowell Portfolio on 12/08/2016. The 
    Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
    
    
    6: On 4 March 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents 
    mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure 
    Rule 31.14 to Claimant's Solicitor. I requested the Claimant 
    provide copies of the Agreement and Notice of Assignment.
    
    
    7. Claimant's Solicitor has not sent the Agreement to me.
    
    
    8. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a 
    money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any 
    allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved 
    unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is 
    expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation 
    that the money is owed as claimed.
    
    
    
    
    9. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the 
    necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case 
    else the Claim should stand struck out.
    
    
    
    
    10. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the 
    Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and 
    would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
    
    
    
    
    11. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as 
    claimed or at all.
    Apologies, I've been out this afternoon.

    Eveything looks fine apart from the fundamental point 4. As I previously stated, if you know that an agreement was entered into, it seems like a mistake to deny it.

    You are only contesting the extra charges and the fact that you don't know where they originate from, as I understand. So why specifically deny that the defendant has entered into any agreement?

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    As I previously stated, if you know that an agreement was entered into, it seems like a mistake to deny it.

    You are only contesting the extra charges and the fact that you don't know where they originate from, as I understand. So why specifically deny that the defendant has entered into any agreement?
    I do hope I've misunderstood the advice you're giving the OP on what they should include/exclude in their Defence.

    You appear to say that the Defendant should not question (put the Claimant on strict proof) the existence of any agreement between them (Defendant) and the original creditor simply because the agreement wouldn't have been regulated by the Consumer Credit Act?

    Plenty of agreements/contracts are unregulated by the CCA and their validity can still be challenged in court.

    Only questioning the extra charges could be considered as an admission of the claim, and the Defendant only asking the court to rule on quantum (how much exactly do they owe).

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    I do hope I've misunderstood the advice you're giving the OP on what they should include/exclude in their Defence.

    You appear to say that the Defendant should not question (put the Claimant on strict proof) the existence of any agreement between them (Defendant) and the original creditor simply because the agreement wouldn't have been regulated by the Consumer Credit Act?

    Plenty of agreements/contracts are unregulated by the CCA and their validity can still be challenged in court.

    Only questioning the extra charges could be considered as an admission of the claim, and the Defendant only asking the court to rule on quantum (how much exactly do they owe).

    Di
    That's correct, you've misunderstood.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    That's correct, you've misunderstood.
    I think you are the one who has misunderstood the OP's legal situation when advising them to only contest the quantum of the claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    You are only contesting the extra charges and the fact that you don't know where they originate from, as I understand. So why specifically deny that the defendant has entered into any agreement?
    Diana M
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Perhaps it was phrased poorly, in that I should have told them to take out the first point 4, as it was covered by the second point 4, which more honestly reflects the situation that they are in?

    In actual fact the point is completely academic as neither your nor anyone else has been willing or able to advise them over the last couple of days, and so their defence was already enetered, correct or otherwise, as they had already written it by the time they made post #55.

    Therefore continued discussion on this point is not terribly useful, for the OP at least...

  12. #62
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    As I previously stated, if you know that an agreement was entered into, it seems like a mistake to deny it.
    The burden of proof is on the Claimant to prove their case.

    The Defendant has every right to deny they entered into a valid agreement with the original creditor. It's then up to the Claimant to prove them wrong.

    Diana M
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  13. #63
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Perhaps it was phrased poorly, in that I should have told them to take out the first point 4, as it was covered by the second point 4, which more honestly reflects the situation that they are in?

    In actual fact the point is completely academic as neither your nor anyone else has been willing or able to advise them over the last couple of days, and so their defence was already enetered, correct or otherwise
    Are you honestly saying that giving incorrect legal advice is better than no advice?

    You can always tag someone if you feel a thread has been overlooked since some of us have full time day jobs so a nudge can be useful.

    That's got to be better than giving incorrect advice which is read by others who may believe what they read and adopt it for their own legal situation.

    Diana M
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    Are you honestly saying that giving incorrect legal advice is better than no advice?

    You can always tag someone if you feel a thread has been overlooked since some of us have full time day jobs so a nudge can be useful.

    That's got to be better than giving incorrect advice which is read by others who may believe what they read and adopt it for their own legal situation.

    Diana M
    Noooooooooooooo......

    My advice:

    You are only contesting the extra charges and the fact that you don't know where they originate from, as I understand. So why specifically deny that the defendant has entered into any agreement?

    Does not tell them to admit that they entered into an agreement. They already covered the lack of information in their SECOND point 4! There was no merit in including the first point 4.

    Have you you even read their prospective defence that they posted above?

    And please don't patronise me, I'd already worked a 40 plus hour week by 6pm yesterday, hence why I've had a day off today.

  15. #65
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    @Diana M have I done something wrong or does everything appear OK?

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    @Diana M have I done something wrong or does everything appear OK?
    Hello captain sam

    I can't answer that question without knowing what you eventually filed as your Defence.

    Most things are fixable so no need to worry right now.

    In post # 57 Arcadian advised your Defence was fine with the exception of one issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Apologies, I've been out this afternoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post

    Eveything looks fine apart from the fundamental point 4. As I previously stated, if you know that an agreement was entered into, it seems like a mistake to deny it.

    You are only contesting the extra charges and the fact that you don't know where they originate from, as I understand. So why specifically deny that the defendant has entered into any agreement?
    I can see that before you filed your Defence you were given the following advice but it's not possible for me to comment on whether that was the correct advice without having the full facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    Any help please? Defense is due tomorrow....
    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post

    Thanks in advance
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Having said early on in your defence that the CCA 1974 does not apply, you can't then go on to refer to it in later points.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    I removed what was point 7. How is it looking now? Any help appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian View Post
    Not sure about that. As I understand it you are not contesting that an agreement was entered into, but that there were subsequent, unevidenced attempts to make charges for services that remain unclear?


    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Hi @Diana M In short, what happened was - My mother had a contract with T-Mobile. We believe they overcharged my mother on two occasions. The first time for a 1xx bill which we paid but the second time we refused it as they wouldn't give us an itemised bill. They have a massive overcharging scandal and have actually recently been fined by ofcom, relevantly irrelevant!

    Anyhow, we refused to pay the bill until such time that T-Mobile provided this bill. After maybe two years and various companies trying to collect the "debt" they sold it to Lowell. I've given them a without prejudice offer of £98 awaiting reply. However, in the meantime needed to submit a defense in case they rejected the offer.

    I acknowledge that we should pay something, particularly that the contract was ended early. However, I do not think we should be paying what they demanded for the bill which was approximately £200 odd pounds. My mother calls no one to run up the bill so high. She would only call myself or siblings and it would never run into even 200minutes...

  18. #68
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    I was simply echoing Jo's post at the beginning of your thread which suggested you dispute all of the claim (at the AOS stage) to leave your options open and then if it feels right you could make a WP offer to settle.

    You've done that (made an offer) but you didn't get a response from Lowells prior to your Defence deadline. Did you put a deadline in your offer letter?

    I can't comment on the contents of any Defence which doesn't originate from my firm (I have to consider their insurance). I was making the point that since you'd sent a CPR 31.14 Request Request asking for the agreement (didn't you?) then putting the Claimant in a position where they have to prove there was one is no bad thing. That way you're neither admitting nor denying there was one.

    You've filed a Defence so the next thing that will happen is a letter from the court letting you know that they have sent it (your Defence) to the Claimant who has 28 days to inform them (the court) if they intend to carry on with these proceedings.

    If they do that then you'll be sent a Directions Questionnaire where you can tick the YES box for free telephone Mediation which may be an opportunity to settle if Lowells haven't accepted your offer by then. A Mediation settlement is not a CCJ unless you breach the terms of the settlement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joanna C View Post
    As the claim form is dated 13 February 2017 the acknowledgment of service is due to be filed before 4pm on 4 March 2017 and the defence befoe 4pm on 18 March 2017.

    I would suggest filing g the acknowledgment of service within the next few days to get it out of the way. If you indicate that you are disputing the full amount then that leaves your options open.

    On the other hand if you admit the amount you think you owe then the claimant may well accept that and ask for Judgment (CCJ) to be entered for that amount. However be aware that if you pay a CCJ more than a month after the judgment date, it stays on your credit history for six years


    Send a CPR 31.14 request to Llowells solicitors requesting a copy of any documents mentioned in the particulars of claim ie. agreement, assignment, termination notice - LB has a template you can use.

    I would think that they will probably accept a settlement offer because it costs them to proceed with the claim In which case a Tomlin order may be able to be agreed whereby the agreed sum is paid in monthly installments with no county court Judgment being entered against your Mum.
    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    I figured it'd be relevant to mention - my mother acknowledges she owes some money ie the 15£ monthly line rental. However, not the amount being claimed.
    Have you quantified the amount you believe your Mum owed for line rental? Is that the basis of your £98 offer to Lowells?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  20. #70
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    File regardless.
    Treat the WP as a separate issue which runs concurrently with the claim up to judgment. (If it goes that far).
    I've now had a chance to read through your whole thread and this post by Charity sets the scene.

    This is a Good Cop Bad Cop situation.

    You make a WP offer (Good Cop) and you also file a robust ("Hell will freeze over before I pay you a brass farthing until you prove I owe it") Defence (Bad Cop).

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    Have you quantified the amount you believe your Mum owed for line rental? Is that the basis of your £98 offer to Lowells?

    Di
    Hello


    Sorry for the delay in replying. The 98£ would probably reflect approximately how much would have been left outstanding on the contract line rental.




    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    I've now had a chance to read through your whole thread and this post by Charity sets the scene.


    This is a Good Cop Bad Cop situation.


    You make a WP offer (Good Cop) and you also file a robust ("Hell will freeze over before I pay you a brass farthing until you prove I owe it") Defence (Bad Cop).


    Di

    That's what I've done. I haven't heard anything from Lowell's though. They've gone quiet. I have checked the tracking numbers on the royal mail and they were both delivered to solicitor and client.


    I have submitted the defence above and since recieved a letter from Court instructing mediation. Is this normal?

  22. #72
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    I have submitted the defence above and since recieved a letter from Court instructing mediation. Is this normal?
    Yes it is.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    Yes it is.

    Di
    Thank you for replying.


    Do I need to do anything or wait for them (Lowells) to contact me?

  24. #74
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain sam View Post
    Do I need to do anything or wait for them (Lowells) to contact me?
    Have you received a Directions Questionnaire from the court with a deadline to file your response?

    From what you say that may be the case.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Claim form - Lowell Portfolio / Lowell solicitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    Have you received a Directions Questionnaire from the court with a deadline to file your response?

    From what you say that may be the case.

    Di
    Hello


    I have not. The letter simply states that 28 days for mediation after which the claimaint can escalate? I'll re-read the letter to be sure.

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