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  1. #1
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Exclamation Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi All,

    I am in need of the help of the experts on here please. My car was parked in Gallions Reach (Docklands) in 2015. There was a valid visitor's permit but the car was parked outside of a bay. There was a NTK each time (attached one copy because both are basically the same) and then some letters but reading around the advice seemed to be to ignore these - so I did. The other thing was that the letters were addressed to me at my address but contained errors in my name.

    I received an LBC from Gladstones acting on behalf of Parking Control Management UK Ltd that I felt was inadequate and after reading through the forums replied with the attached letter.

    I received court claim papers (attached) last week relating to two parking charges in 2015. I have been reading through these forums but every case seems to be slightly different so I'm not sure if I should be contesting this or giving a without prejudice offer etc.

    Would be grateful for help.

    Many thanks
    F
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    Last edited by Fruitbat; 16th January 2017 at 15:24:PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Did you ever ask for or receive any further information ? Have you any pictures of the signs ?

    Have you filed acknowledgement of service ?

    M1
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi M1,

    Many thanks for responding.

    The letter to Gladstones attached to my previous post was intended to request additional information following their LBC i.e. they gave me paring charge notice numbers but no time of each event, they didn't mention an alternative appeals process etc. All of these seem to be requirements of the Practice Direction so I just referred to that but in retrospect perhaps I should have spelled these out specifically. In any case Gladstones didn't reply and I simply received a Court Claim form a few days later.

    I have attached a photo of one of the PCM signs taken by one of their operatives.

    Many thanks
    F

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also had not filed AOS yet because I was waiting to see the thoughts on here on whether I should go ahead with this or give a without prejudice offer etc.

    BW
    F
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    So you had a permit and were parked outside the marked bays ?

    M1
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    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

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  5. #5
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    In a word yes. The marked bays were all full...

    F

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Send a request for further information to Gladstones.



    Dear BW Legal,


    I, as defendant, am in receipt of your court claim number xxxxxxxx in which the claimant is PCM UK.


    I would like to bring to your attention CPR 16.4 which centres around the contents of the claim form and practice direction 16 particularly 7.5 This case should be repleaded as it is neither concise nor has any information which must be specified.

    There is no mention of the capacity of myself driver/keeper/registered keeper. There is no mention of how any offer was communicated or the terms (including the term breached). The claim lacks a cause of action.


    CPR 16




    Contents of the claim form
    16.2
    (1) The claim form must –
    (a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim




    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include –
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;




    Practice direction 16




    Other matters to be included in particulars of claim




    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.




    In order to ascertain your response and see if i need to take further action i would ask for an extension to the time for filing a defence pursuant to CPR 15.5 and seek the full 28 days extra and look forward to your cooperation on this. Failure to sort out you case or the issues identified will lead me to consider a summary judgement application particularly if time starts to get short.

    I would like the following information to help reduce the issues in dispute,

    1. Are you claiming i was the driver or registered keeper ?
    2. Is the claim a contractual penalty or trespass ?
    3. Where was this ?
    4. How was any offer communicated ?


    Please reply before 25/01/17


    Yours etc


    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  7. #7
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi M1,

    Many thanks for all of your help.

    Should I be filing an AOS now then?

    Also should I send a copy of this letter from the court as well as Gladstones?

    Many thanks
    F

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Should I be filing an AOS now then?
    Nothing to be gained by waiting.

    Also should I send a copy of this letter from the court as well as Gladstones?
    Not at the moment but the court might need to see it at a later date to show the claimant as unreasonable and/or not complying with the CPR over riding objective.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  9. #9
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Many thanks for all of this - just filed AOS and will wait for Gladstones' reply.

    BW
    F

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Or non reply. Deadlines don't stop if they fanny about.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  11. #11
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi M1,

    It's a week and no reply from Gladstones, perhaps unsurprisingly?

    However, on doing some additional Googling the Practice Direction says that if made by letter a request for further information has to specifically state that it is being made under part 18 of the CPR and be headed with the name of the court etc. I did not realise this and actually just sent a normal letter in the post with the text that you outlined. Will this be a problem?

    What would be the next steps here?

    Many thanks
    F

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruitbat View Post
    Hi M1,

    It's a week and no reply from Gladstones, perhaps unsurprisingly?

    However, on doing some additional Googling the Practice Direction says that if made by letter a request for further information has to specifically state that it is being made under part 18 of the CPR and be headed with the name of the court etc. I did not realise this and actually just sent a normal letter in the post with the text that you outlined. Will this be a problem?

    What would be the next steps here?

    Many thanks
    F
    Part 18 doesn't apply to small claims track and although tecnically this isn't a small claim yet it's nothing to worry about.

    What i would do is phone them up and ask if they got your email, and if so are they going to reply with the information. Get an email address and send an email with a brief overview of the call as it'll be handy evidence later.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  13. #13
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Wow thanks.

    Honestly your help is hugely appreciated.

    Many thanks - will call them tomorrow.

    F

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi M1,

    I phoned Gladstones yesterday - they received my my letter but the person I spoke to wasn't sure whether they would respond and couldn't give me any more information. She's going to email the 'response team'. I emailed in order to document the conversation as per your advice.

    Assuming they don't reply I suppose this is the point at which I should start drafting a defence? I believe I have 28 days after the initial claim on 11/1/17, which means 8/2/17.

    Many thanks
    F

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by Fruitbat View Post
    Hi M1,

    I phoned Gladstones yesterday - they received my my letter but the person I spoke to wasn't sure whether they would respond and couldn't give me any more information. She's going to email the 'response team'. I emailed in order to document the conversation as per your advice.

    Assuming they don't reply I suppose this is the point at which I should start drafting a defence? I believe I have 28 days after the initial claim on 11/1/17, which means 8/2/17.

    Many thanks
    F
    Plus 5 days for service of the claim form.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  16. #16
    Fruitbat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi M1,

    The deadline as you say is 13/2/17 so will need to draft my defence this week.

    Looking online and especially at some of your posts on this forum, it seems given Gladstones' inadequate particulars of claim that an embarrassed defence is the way to go - would you agree?

    Many thanks
    F

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Hi again M1,

    Sorry to hassle you. I have very little idea about these things other than what I have read from your posts.

    Is there any sort of special procedure for an embarrassed defence? Is this even the sort of defence I should submit?!

    Would summary judgement under these circumstances for £255 be considered a disproportionate cost given the claim for £390 and/or is it likely to be successful?

    Many thanks for all of your help so far
    F

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    An application is by far the best way to go if you are either fee exempt or willing to take the risk of not getting the costs returned.

    It should be successful but nothing is ever guaranteed.

    An embarrassed defence is never a great idea but if they won't furnish details what else can you do ? It's either that or file a defence on every conceivable point. Sadly, at least 2 courts have let them pull this stunt and blamed the defendant for filing a bare defence. Ridiculous but there you go.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    So just to clarify:

    Worst case scenario - I would pay the fee and then the court would decide against me and I would be paying in the region of £550.

    Best case scenario- the court would decide in my favour and would award me costs for my application?

    I'm a little confused on what the difference is between summary judgement and having a case heard "on the papers"?

    Many thanks
    F

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Worst case scenario - I would pay the fee and then the court would decide against me and I would be paying in the region of £550.
    Pretty much.

    Best case scenario- the court would decide in my favour and would award me costs for my application?
    Yup.

    I'm a little confused on what the difference is between summary judgement and having a case heard "on the papers"?
    Summary judgement is really just a way of deciding a case is worthless without going through the whole process of exchanging directions questionnaires, witness statements, evidence etc. (It's way more cost effective in larger cases).

    On the papers, is just the same as a hearing except nobody turns up and the judge reads what everyone has submitted and decides.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Many thanks M1.

    Actually I miscalculated... It's circa £650. I'm not in a position to be fee exempt but equally neither am I in a financially viable position to risk £650...

    I've drafted a defence based on a combination of your defences on other threads and some reading around the subject and was wondering if you would take a look? Hopefully you aren't too shocked by my relative misunderstanding legal drafting!

    Also just another point - is it worth including in the defence a paragraph on Gladstones' failure to fully follow pre-action protocol?

    Many thanks
    F
    Attached Files Attached Files

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    In my opinion the defence should be fine but at least 2 courts have said otherwise. Probably safer to just bung everything in.

    http://content.tfl.gov.uk/railway-byelaws.pdf

    This being a byelaw site would feature high on the list.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Sorry I should clarify - the actual location was just near Galleon's Reach station but not in the immediate vicinity of the station per se. It was at a large residential complex with a pub and a small shop so I'm not sure the byelaws would necessarily apply

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    So what do you know ?

    Signs, pofa etc ?

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Parking Control Management UK Gladstones Court Claim

    Not sure exactly what you mean?

    The signs were as the one I posted in my original post. They weren't ideally placed to be seen from the car and one of them was damaged, looking back at the online evidence.

    There was a NTK on the windscreen for each event (example photo as per my original post). I haven't had a chance in detail to go through and see if they have or haven't complied with everything in the POFA...

    I mentioned the failure to comply with the PD on pre action conduct.

    Are there any other points of defence I can use without giving too much away that might give them an unfair advantage?

    BW
    F

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