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Thread: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

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  1. #26
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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    What were the goods that you were paying in instalments? Was it a car or furniture / appliances or something else?

    And sending a SAR does not reset the clock.

    Edit: And have the goods been returned back to Blackhorse or are you still in possession of them?
    It was finance for a car, for 3 years. Cannot remember how long I paid for. Less than a year perhaps?
    The car was written off in a crash that wasnt my fault. But i have seen this car on the road in my area on multiple occasions so not sure what happened there.

  2. #27
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    Default Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    I sent off my CPR request (template from this site) and I've had the following reply. Where go I go from here? My defence is due tomorrow?!?! Ahhh.. So out of my depth here. Any help would be appreciated!


    ' We acknowledge your request for documentation pursuant to CPR 31.14
    We confirm our client is willing to agree to the extension of 28 days, for you to file your defence. Pursuant to CPR 15.5 (2) please notify the court in writing of the agreement.
    CPR 31.14 relates to a right to inspect a document and can be distinguished from a standard disclosure of evidence during the court proceedings.
    We believe that you may have already ''inspected'' the documents to which you make reference because on various dates in the past they would have been sent to you by another party such as the original creditor.
    We would be grateful if you could confirm what documents you have in your possession or control relating to this matter to avoid duplication over document inspection. We will then take our clients instructions. '

    I've also attached the relevant information below. It was also mentioned to me that its strange that the default notice wasnt mentioned in the POC? Any advise on what to do next would be great. Do I need to write to the court for an extra 28 days extension? Im sure my defence is due tomorrow.
    Received a claim? CCJ
    Issue Date: 12/12/16 - I have already acknowledged it and extended it until 28days
    Amount approx: 3000
    Claimant: ME III limited
    Solicitor: Mortimer clark solicitors
    Original Creditor: Black horse finance (lloyds)
    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement"). The agreement was assigned to the claimant. Particulars : 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97. The claimant therefore claims 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97
    Is the debt Statute Barred? *** This is where Im stuck. This debt is no longer on my credit file, and Im pretty sure its statute barred but no way of finding out?***
    List any letters you have sent: None so far due to completely forgetting over Xmas. Im sure most of these offices are going to be closed over Xmas too.
    Any Other Info: This CCJ was sent to my mums address. They dont have my current address, Its lucky she still lives there or this would have gone unnoticed! I didnt pay this bill for very long due to change in curcumstances and could no longer afford, buried my head in the sand and didnt hear anything for years until this. Im pretty sure its statute barred but need help with how to find out? I need to also act very quickly as time was wasted over Xmas. But again, I doubt most offices will even be open until new year so now im worried I wont get the reply I need in time.
    Any help would be appreciated
    Thanks in advance

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Hi CCJ

    IMO, i would not give them any info on any doc's in my possession. They are bringing the claim so let them show their hand and what doc's they have. (or more likely don't have). complain as your CPR is still outstanding - insist they provide all.

    No mention of DN as part of the POC? - this makes me very suspicious that they do not know themselves. Someone else will be along shortly (hopefully) to advise more on this point.

    General advice on SB debts as i understand it, is dependant on when you last made payment/admitted the debt, and/or anniversary of OD review and/or date of DN/termination. Min 6 years + 1 month, better 6 years + 6 months.

    It maybe an idea to do a SARs to the original creditor if you do not have any bank statements for the time you think you stopped paying or to get a copy of the DN. However a SARs can take up to 40 days. Once SARs doc's received you maybe able to do an amended defence - but state in your current defence that you want the option to amend due to the failure on the part of the claimant to provided info requested in time. Di/Nem are brilliant at this stuff hopefully they will be along shortly to assist with advice.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Thanks for the reply.
    Yes I have also sent of SAR to Black horse but not expecting a reply anytime soon.
    Really dont know what to do for my next step as my defence is due tomorrow but they have said they will allow me an extra 28 days but I need to write to the court and say so? But obviously only received that letter today so where do I go from here? And what do I reply to this letter? I feel I should say I have no documents relating to this but Im not very good with words.
    Would really like some help regarding the reply, or even help with what i should do about my defence due tomorrow?!
    Thanks in advance

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Hi

    Email the court with a scanned copy of the Claimant's letter accepting the 28 day extension.
    In the email subject box, ME III Ltd v CCJhelp; Court Claim No XXXXXXXX
    "Please find attached Claimant's acceptance of a 28 day extension" or words to that effect
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    Hi

    Email the court with a scanned copy of the Claimant's letter accepting the 28 day extension.
    In the email subject box, ME III Ltd v CCJhelp; Court Claim No XXXXXXXX
    "Please find attached Claimant's acceptance of a 28 day extension" or words to that effect
    I rung the court this morning to tell them. The women on the phone was next to useless. It appears my defence deadline is the 14th Jan not the 12th Jan as I originally thought so at least I have another couple of days yet. She seemed to be under the impression that my letter from ME III was just acknowledgement of the 28 days extension I already applied for, not a FURTHER extension. She told me to ring ME III to double check but I would rather have it all in letters. Do you think this letter was a further extension, giving me until some time in Feb to submit? Im so stuck with what to do from now after the letter they sent. What do I reply? By the time I send them another letter it will be my deadline date? This is the letter I recieved..... Please can someone help me with a reply? Do I just reply saying ' I have no documents relating to this, please send me all documents that you have relating to this? ' I just dont know what to say

    ' We acknowledge your request for documentation pursuant to CPR 31.14
    We confirm our client is willing to agree to the extension of 28 days, for you to file your defence. Pursuant to CPR 15.5 (2) please notify the court in writing of the agreement.
    CPR 31.14 relates to a right to inspect a document and can be distinguished from a standard disclosure of evidence during the court proceedings.
    We believe that you may have already ''inspected'' the documents to which you make reference because on various dates in the past they would have been sent to you by another party such as the original creditor.
    We would be grateful if you could confirm what documents you have in your possession or control relating to this matter to avoid duplication over document inspection. We will then take our clients instructions. '

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Hi
    you have typed

    'We confirm our client is willing to agree to the extension of 28 days, for you to file your defence. Pursuant to CPR 15.5 (2) please notify the court in writing of the agreement.'

    Follow the good advice provided to you by Charity on what to do next. Also re send CPR request to the debt chaser. I would ignore them fishing for docs you may have and they
    don't. Admit nothing. Remind them of CPR rules - it is you right to see what they have. It is not their business what you may have had before - They have to prove the debt, that you are the person that owes the debt, and and that they have a right to chase and be paid the debt.

    By reminding them the CPR is outstanding you are laying a paper trail which can be used as part of your defence (when you come to submit it) i.e. on the xxx you sent CPR, docs not provided. Further on the xxxa second CPR request made. doc's not provided etc. Keep all proof of postage.

    This is all my personal opinion, and you may decide to do otherwise

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    CPR 15.5 is specifically for a further 28 day extension (to the usual 28 days + 5 for post = 33 days).
    http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...l/rules/part15
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Further to @Brainmelt's suggestion to a follow-up/response.

    "I requested early disclosure per CPR Rules in order to assess my position in a timely manner. I consider your refusal tp comply as unreasonable & an abuse of process, especially with reference to the Overriding Objective"

    That should give them pause for thought!
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    I rung the court this morning to tell them. The women on the phone was next to useless. It appears my defence deadline is the 14th Jan not the 12th Jan as I originally thought so at least I have another couple of days yet. She seemed to be under the impression that my letter from ME III was just acknowledgement of the 28 days extension I already applied for, not a FURTHER extension.
    Maybe that woman on the phone wasn't useless. Maybe she has been helpful

    Firstly, if your Defence deadline is 14th January (which is a Saturday) you have until 4 pm on Monday to file it.

    Secondly, I almost agree with her that the solicitor's letter may be ambiguous. Did you specifically ask for a further 28 day extension? It's clear they want/need more time, but do you?

    They should have had the paperwork before they issued the claim.

    It's difficult for me to comment because people like to litigate in different ways. And it's done differently according to not only the individual case circumstances but also whether it's likely to be allocated to the Small Claims Court or Fast Track (always mindful of costs with the latter). And it's definitely done differently when you're a LIP or when you have legal representation.

    If the Claimant admits that they haven't got the documents then it can be a good to get on with things. Filing a Defence puts them under pressure. That way you take control of the situation not let the situation control you.

    It's a matter of personal choice, but I know what I'd do

    You now have three different threads on this claim so maybe you should ask @Kati to merge them because that would make it easier to follow what's going on now and what's gone on previously.

    Other threads > http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...021#post698021

    and http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...828#post698828

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    "I requested early disclosure per CPR Rules in order to assess my position in a timely manner. I consider your refusal tp comply as unreasonable & an abuse of process, especially with reference to the Overriding Objective"

    That should give them pause for thought!
    Well, if the OP sent the LB forum CPR 31.14 Request letter it says that they may have an extension of time if they need it. They imply that they do.

    If they then agree to an extension it's difficult to accuse them of "an abuse of process" when they've only done what you told them to do (agree to any extension in writing)

    Forum CPR 31.14 letter:

    "If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and confirm your agreement to an extension of the time allowed for me to file my defence as allowed under CPR 15.5 so I may notify the court."


    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    Well, if the OP sent the LB forum CPR 31.14 Request letter it says that they may have an extension of time if they need it. They imply that they do.

    If they then agree to an extension it's difficult to accuse them of "an abuse of process" when they've only done what you told them to do (agree to any extension in writing)

    Forum CPR 31.14 letter:

    "If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and confirm your agreement to an extension of the time allowed for me to file my defence as allowed under CPR 15.5 so I may notify the court."


    Di
    Lol!

    I meant refusal to comply with disclosure, not refusing the extension!

    :taunt:

    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    You now have three different threads on this claim so maybe you should ask @Kati to merge them because that would make it easier to follow what's going on now and what's gone on previously.

    Other threads > http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...021#post698021

    and http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...828#post698828

    Di
    sorted:yox
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is kati@legalbeagles.info
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  14. #39
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kati View Post
    sorted:yox
    Thank you so much

    It makes life so much easier for anyone who wants to 'review the file'.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    I meant refusal to comply with disclosure, not refusing the extension!
    Well (again ), they didn't actually say they refused to comply with CPR 31.14. They said "if you show me yours, I'll show you mine" or words to that effect. They then went on to say the process will take 28 days.

    What I found disturbing in that letter was the attempt to disguise a 'fishing expedition' as something which would be of mutual benefit (to avoid duplication).

    They might have got away with that in the Fast Track where the parties exchange a List of Documents which the other side selects sight of like picking off a Chinese restaurant take-away menu.

    Anyway, I think we are in agreement that the Claimant's solicitors are not entering into the spirit of transparency in court proceedings.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Strange reply regarding CPR 31.14, HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    Well (again ), they didn't actually say they refused to comply with CPR 31.14. They said "if you show me yours, I'll show you mine" or words to that effect.
    As Brucie might have said, "Good game!"

    They then went on to say the process will take 28 days.

    What I found disturbing in that letter was the attempt to disguise a 'fishing expedition' as something which would be of mutual benefit (to avoid duplication).

    They might have got away with that in the Fast Track where the parties exchange a List of Documents which the other side selects sight of like picking off a Chinese restaurant take-away menu.

    Anyway, I think we are in agreement that the Claimant's solicitors are not entering into the spirit of transparency in court proceedings.
    Agreed!
    Shark infested waters.......& they are the sharks.

    Di
    ####
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  17. #42
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Hi,
    Just checked my calendar and my defence is due today!!!!!!! So far, I have received 1 reply in regards to the CPR 31.14, which is posted in previous post, but i have had NO reply to my CCA request?! Does this work in my favour or did they manage to cover themselves for it by the means of what was said in the letter they sent?
    Is there a template I can use for my defence? I've been dreading this part as I really feel out of my depth. I don't understand the first thing about defencing myself and so far, if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't have got this far. (cca request/crp request)
    Any help would be very much appreciated,

  18. #43
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    when is yourDefence Example defence due, no CCA is a problem for them

    submit day before due gives them no time to produce at that point and make your defence useless

  19. #44
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE770 View Post
    when is yourDefence Example defence due, no CCA is a problem for them

    submit day before due gives them no time to produce at that point and make your defence useless
    Its due today so Im assuming by midnight.
    No CCA isnt my only defence, I also think its SB but not 100%. Ill use the template now thank you

  20. #45
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    hope you filed thru MCOL site?

  21. #46
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Yes I did it online, Whats the next step? Do I just wait for something through the post?

  22. #47
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    the court will send copy to claimant -

    PART 15 - DEFENCE AND REPLY


    Service of copy of defence


    15.6 A copy of the defence must be served on every other party.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    As 28 days from the date the defence is received the court will stay (suspend) the claim a stay is open ended and the claimant may pay a fee at any time to restart the claim

    they have the above time limit before staying a case to respond

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