Landmark (ex NRAM)

[Arcadian]

My sister's distressed NRAM (Northern Rock/Bradford&Bingley) mortgage was recently transferred to a new company called Landmark.

They have already far surpassed NRAM (who were actually pretty good overall) in their incompetence and administrative muddle, sending duplicate letters, letters that contradict each other or don't reflect the latest situation, obsession with arrangements even when they know there are no funds, backpeddling on assisted sale scheme, patronising call centre staff, etc.

We will soon have separated off the asset of the house via a sale to clear the secured debt, leaving only the unsecured personal loan element of the mortgage outstanding: the mortgage is from the bad old days when they gave out 100% mortgages to anyone with a pulse...

It remains to be seen how easy they become to deal with once there is no asset for them to repossess. We already know that the interest rate will increase considerably so it remains to be seen as to what the best way forward will be, to help her clear the remainder of this debt, as well as another large sum to another provider which they have now assigned for management by the dreaded Robinson Way...

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Thought I'd posted this in a different forum... mods please feel free to move as appropriate.

just to add that it's odd because although the new company seems to just be NRAM or a part thereof under a different name, they seem to be suddenly and completely incompetent!

Has anyone else had dealings with them and have you experienced similar issues?

[Arcadian]

Prioritisation of payments to unsecured creditors, including family?

A family member has some debts to a couple of institutions, and to family members.

They did have a mortgaged house but that is being sold (completion on Monday all being well) which will clear the secured debt with Landmark (NRAM, Northern Rock).

They will still have an unsecured loan with Landmark, this is because their mortgage was set up as a "Together" type of mortgage/loan combination.

They still have a large outstanding balance with a credit card provider which has defaulted. They were assured that payments would be possible when the property was sold, but in the meantime they have placed the debt in the hands of Robinson Way (for management, not sold off).

In addition there is an amount lent by relatives which is equal to or greater than the debt to the combined institutions above. The relatives are not wealthy and need to have the money back.

The family member with the debts is sporadically earning a decent wage but their work is sporadic and not guaranteed. When pro-rata is calculated, it's fairly modest.

So although we're keen to start arranging to pay back the institutions in advance of any court action, we're also keen that the relatives that have lent the money can get a decent chunk of any repayment agreement.

I'm very well versed in helping them to work out income and expenditure and in writing letters to the creditors, so that's fine. But I need to know what proportion of any net income after essential expenditure can be allocated to relatives before the rest is offered as an arrangement to the institutions?
What view would courts be likely to take?

[Hunter2016]

Re: Prioritisation of payments to unsecured creditors, including family?

Hi Arcadian!

In my experience, I have always found that the creditors and the family debts should be treated similarly. If you offer too much to the family, the creditors will be less likely to accept the offer of payment.

Try to offer a pro rata amount towards each. The best calculation for this is:
Monthly surplus x individual debt amount divided by total debt level (including family debts). This figure will be the best amount to offer monthly.

Courts will take the same stance.

Thanks

[Arcadian]

Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

Landmark (NRAM) have issued notice of court proceedings to claim possession of relative's house.

House sale was already agreed at the price of the redemption value of the secured part of the loan. This was recently sent to us by Landmark. The conveyancer had also taken into account the daily interest.

Yesterday we received claim forms. They seem to have added on about £1000 to the redemption price. Some of this is fees but they also appear to have added about £550 without explanation - as the hearing is set for January is it possible that they have added the next mortgage payment into it?

The contracts have been exchanged, and completion is due to take place on Monday. We now fear that the court fees will have been added onto the land charge, and that the sale will fail to complete as the funds that are already in place will be insufficient! Fortunately there is no chain.

Assuming that the sale can take place on Monday, what happens with the claim? What is the correct response? In theory the debt will have ceased to exist and the property will no longer be in her possession, which is presumably an absolute defence?

If only they'd believed us when they were told that a sale was definitely happening, all of the extra cost and effort could have been avoided. What a horrible company.

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

Without seeing the paperwork it's difficult to comment but common sense says the court can't grant a Possession Order on a property no longer owned by the person named as the Defendant on the summons

Talk to the conveyancing solicitor about tomorrow's completion of the sale. I would think it's wise to do whatever may be necessary to complete before the repossession hearing next month.

Is the property in negative equity or will there be sufficient funds to pay Landmark (NRAM)?

You've referred to the "secured" part of the loan. Is/was this a Northern Rock Together mortgage, and if so are there insufficient funds to pay off the unsecured element when the sale completes?

If not and it's an unsecured loan then in theory that shouldn't hold up the sale.

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I have no authority to speak to relative's conveyancer, and they will be at work in the morning so it's difficult to pre-warn, although I could possibly get them to send an email today. Their view is that until it becomes an issue, they would rather not draw attention to it in case the conveyancer decides to make it an issue!

The sale price agreed is sufficient to pay off just the secured element of the "Together" loan. At this point we are just concerned with that, and intend to deal with the remaining unsecured personal loan element when the house is definitely sold.

NRAM were quite pleasant to deal with, but since the loan was sold to Landmark they have been a total pain, although the staff in the Hardship team are the same people and seem helpful.

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

I see no reason to tell the conveyancer of impending possession proceedings since those shouldn't have any negative effect on the sale due to complete tomorrow.

However they may seek your relative's approval to hand over more money than agreed if Landmark have increased the redemption figure. Is your relative contactable if necessary?

Even if things do get seriously delayed, a DJ is likely to only grant a Suspended Possession Order to allow the sale to go through since contracts have already been exchanged.

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

They're not contactable during the day, and there is no more money. They are having to borrow the money to pay their conveyancing fees!

We're hoping Landmark do not intend at this point to cut off their noses to spite their faces. We've worked very hard to get this sale arranged, and they were told some time ago that the only alternative to them waiting was an immediate application for bankruptcy.

Good to hear that the court would be unlikely to get in the way of the sale, which does make sense. However we all hope that it won't get to the point of court action. It certainly didn't need to!

[Arcadian]

Re: Prioritisation of payments to unsecured creditors, including family?

I imagined that would be the case, thank you for the confirmation.

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

The sale price agreed is sufficient to pay off just the secured element of the "Together" loan. At this point we are just concerned with that, and intend to deal with the remaining unsecured personal loan element when the house is definitely sold..

I think you're right. Get shot of the mortgage element and then tackle the unsecured loan which may have separate issues.

When was the Together mortgage taken out and how much was the unsecured element at the time?

Annoyingly once the mortgage is redeemed the interest rate on the "de-linked" unsecured loan will rocket.

I do hope your family member has somewhere nice to move to in time for Christmas.

Maybe the thought of going BR would have been a bit hasty before all the legal avenues have been explored.

Is this a reluctant sale of their home?

Has NRAM (and now Landmark) shown enough forbearance to prevent repossession? Was your relative not entitled to DWP mortgage interest support etc.? Do they really want to sell the property or are they feeling under pressure (i.e. bullied) by the lender?

I can only assume the arrears have reached a point where things are spiralling out of control, but has the situation been exacerbated by the lender adding obscene charges on top of everything?

DI

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Hello

I see you've got three separate threads on this NRAM/Landmark mortgage and the Together unsecured loan plus your sister's other debts. I'll make some suggestions on the way forward when you've had time to answer my questions on your other Landmark thread about the possession proceedings.

It may make sense for your sister to send a CCA Request to that credit card provider so she knows where she stands while things start to fall into place.

It might also makes sense to ask @Kati if she would kindly merge your three threads since they all revolve around the same topic.

Di

[Kati]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

It might also makes sense to ask @Kati if she would kindly merge your three threads since they all revolve around the same topic.

Di

done :yo: xx

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

I think you're right. Get shot of the mortgage element and then tackle the unsecured loan which may have separate issues.

When was the Together mortgage taken out and how much was the unsecured element at the time?

Annoyingly once the mortgage is redeemed the interest rate on the "de-linked" unsecured loan will rocket.

I do hope your family member has somewhere nice to move to in time for Christmas.

Maybe the thought of going BR would have been a bit hasty before all the legal avenues have been explored.

Is this a reluctant sale of their home?

Has NRAM (and now Landmark) shown enough forbearance to prevent repossession? Was your relative not entitled to DWP mortgage interest support etc.? Do they really want to sell the property or are they feeling under pressure (i.e. bullied) by the lender?

I can only assume the arrears have reached a point where things are spiralling out of control, but has the situation been exacerbated by the lender adding obscene charges on top of everything?

DI

The loans were taken out in March 2007, according to the paperwork. The unsecured element was less than 25K but I don't know offhand.

I was already aware that the interest rate would increase, and to be fair they did inform us of that on an occasion when I spoke to them.

Sister is already rehoused with relatives, we moved her out in the summer when the house had sold the first time (they subsequently backed out, hence the issues now).
The sale was not reluctant, it was just very poorly planned. They do not have any understanding of money or finance and thought that they could just give up their job, sell their house, clear their debts and move away.... if that had actually happened then all would be more or less fine!
2 years later and the local selling market is strangely stale. Parents paid the mortgage for approximately 6 months but could afford no more.

NRAM were very helpful and understanding for a start, but eventually they ran out of patience; things really went downhill when they became landmark. They have been adding about £40 per month which hasn't helped, but can't be said to have in itself made the situation unmanageable.
They were originally happy to go with an Assisted Voluntary Sale, but then the house sold so that was aborted. They then said that AVS could not be reinstated despite previously telling us otherwise. From then on it was a spiral of them requesting income and expenditure, finding out that she had no money to spare, then rejecting any offers of lower payment and saying that an arrangement had to be for the full amount of the monthly mortgage plus extra to clear arrears. As this was not possible no arrangement could be made!

Once the house sale is all over and done with I will be helping to do new income and expenditure forms and negotiating with creditors, including requesting CCA information where appropriate.

Others debts are 10k on a Co Op bank credit card. They were happy to freeze action while the mortgage was not able to be paid, but eventually they became difficult to deal with despite being reassured that once the house was sold a proper arrangement could be made to repay. I think this credit agreement would be from well before 2007. Fortunately I made sure that a new current account was set up with a different bank, otherwise they would presumably be seizing every penny that went into her Cooperative current account on the basis of off-setting!

Sadly work situation for her is sporadic. When working the pay is very good but there can, and have, been long void periods. This makes calculating the wages to put on forms very difficult. Can we average back over 6 months or a year to give a more representative average of earnings when filling in paperwork? Otherwise the figures will be excessively skewed in favour of the creditors at the this moment in time!

[Diana M]

Re: Prioritisation of payments to unsecured creditors, including family?

A family member has some debts to a couple of institutions, and to family members.

. . . They were assured that payments would be possible when the property was sold

. . . . in addition there is an amount lent by relatives which is equal to or greater than the debt to the combined institutions above. The relatives are not wealthy and need to have the money back.

So although we're keen to start arranging to pay back the institutions in advance of any court action, we're also keen that the relatives that have lent the money can get a decent chunk of any repayment agreement.

My sister's distressed NRAM (Northern Rock/Bradford&Bingley) mortgage was recently transferred to a new company called Landmark.

We will soon have separated off the asset of the house via a sale to clear the secured debt, leaving only the unsecured personal loan element. . . . .

Having read your three amalgamated threads I'm sensing a conflict of interest which makes it difficult (if not impossible) for me to give advice.

From what you say your sister's house is reluctantly being sold to repay family 'loans' (and possibly other debts). Were you (as well as your parents) one of the family members who lent her money or helped her out in some way?

She is facing a summons for possession from her lender but you've not said (presumably because you're neither privy to the information nor formally involved) whether she may still have the option to resist the possession proceedings. In my experience there's a possibility that she may have that option but I need more information before I can advise.

She urgently needs independant legal advice. I hope you'll tell her that.

Di