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Thread: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

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  1. #1
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    Default Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Hi,

    My local council has issued my mother with a Fix penalty notice for fly tipping. They said that she had dumped a fridge behind her house and they have evidence (this is all it says on the FPN). I have called them and they advised that there is no appeals, you pay it or they take you to court and are refusing to tell me (or her) what this evidence is. I have had to call them 7 times today as they put the phone down when I get into an argument about it as I feel that they are bullies. They wonít let her know what they have as evidence until they take her to a formal interview. They have now passed my calls to corporate complaints because they say that I am harassing them. Which is daft, I only called them that many times because they put the phone down and also promise phone calls back and 2 hours later itís still not happened.

    This stems from the neighbour who seems to think that he owns the street and picks fights with a number of the neighbours. They know my motherís address, but I am unsure how they would know this from a fridge, which makes me think that itís all coming from the neighbour.

    I am wondering if I can force them to supply me/her with the evidence, my mum says she has not done it, but without the evidence I donít know what to tell her. They have only given her 14 days to deal with and fined her £400 for one fridge. I told them that the fine is supposed to reflect the cost of removal etc., but they said it doesnít.


    My mum has been in tears with this neighbour because he keeps doing this and it seems he is at it again, but using the council.

    Any help would be appreciated

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Was it her fridge?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Unusual fo a council not to have an appeals system (altho' it is not mandatory.... which council is this?)

    If she is going to be formally interviewed, take a solicitor

    Was this her 'fridge, and if so does she know how it came to be outside her house?

    Don't keep calling them... write (email or snail mail and get free certificate of posting)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    How old is your Mum (no details needed )

    Most Local Authorities have a policy of collecting unwanted 'white goods' without charge for 'Senior Citizens'.

    Obviously this wouldn't be relevant if the fridge didn't belong to your Mum but I thought I'd mention it anyway for the benefit of other people reading this forum.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Thats for the replies, with regards to the fridge we are not sure as she did get rid of a fridge and it was taken by a scrap man. The fridge was found next to a skip (another house is being done up by a builder so all of the content ends up in the skip). She does not think that the fridge is hers as she says that its not the same size as the one that she got rid of some weeks earlier.

    My mum is 60 BTW,

    My point that I raised with them is, if it was her fridge why would she not have simply dumped it in the skip as the fridge was right alongside the skip.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    She must know if it was her fridge she must have had it for a few years? Giving it to a scrap man does not stop her being liable if it is fly tipped .
    Think as its a large penalty worth talking to a local Solicitor for advice

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie G View Post
    My point that I raised with them is, if it was her fridge why would she not have simply dumped it in the skip as the fridge was right alongside the skip.
    Perhaps this rogue fridge was dumped in the skip, but the builder took it out because he's paying for the skip for his own use? Maybe the builder was the person who reported this to the Council not the neighbour.

    I expect the Council won't tell you who reported it to them in order to protect their anonymity.

    If a scrap man took away your Mum's fridge some weeks earlier can she provide the Council with evidence if she paid him or has proof of the date he took it away?

    Or on the assumption she got rid of her old fridge because she got a new fridge, does she have a receipt or delivery note for the replacement one which could help to established that the switch was done long before the Council was made aware of the alleged fly tipping?

    At the same time as demanding to see their evidence she could provide her evidence in order to prove her innocence.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie G View Post
    They have only given her 14 days to deal with and fined her £400 for one fridge. I told them that the fine is supposed to reflect the cost of removal etc., but they said it doesn’t.
    It seems the draconian £400 fixed penalty notice was only introduced by the Government in May this year as an alternative to prosecuting fly tippers through the courts.

    I expect some Councils will see it as a money-spinner

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...on-fly-tipping

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Before employing the scrap dealer did your mother checkthat they were registered to deal with waste.

    Householders have a resposibility to take reasonable measures to ensure theirdomestic waste is handled by an authorisedwaste carrier.
    It will be for the courts to decidewhat these ‘reasonable measures’ will comprise.

    The better defence is to establish the dumped fridge was not hers.
    As her son, do you not remember what refrigerator she owned?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    This may sound silly but look through her photos. Unlikely there will be a picture of the fridge per se, but it might appear in the background.

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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post

    At the same time as demanding to see their evidence she could provide her evidence in order to prove her innocence.

    Di
    To be fair, we dont think that it is her fridge, however she is not sure. I dont remember to be fair.

    Now I am not by any means saying that she did this, but if it was put in the skip and he then took it out, he would be the one fly tipping because I hired a skip a few years back and someone put something in mine and I told the council that I was going to take it out as I paid for the skip. They told me that if I did this, I would be guilty of the offence of fly tipping not them.

    With regards to evidence, we are not sure what we are defending as we are saying its not ours. We can not send them anything to prove that, that fridge is not hers. If we knew what evidence they had we could deal with it.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Regarding liability for goods tipped illegally the householder must take reasonable steps to ensure the waste carrier is properly licensed.
    She should have got a waste transfer note from him
    If she cannot show that, she can be held liable for their actions if fly tipped waste can be traced back to her (see post 9 above)
    \the hazardous waste (England and Wales)regulations 2005 apply
    Max fine £5000

    IMO you must pull out all the stops to show this was not her fridge.
    Would friends or neighbours be able to identify it, if you and your mother are uncertain?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie G View Post
    They won’t let her know what they have as evidence until they take her to a formal interview.

    . . . . . I am wondering if I can force them to supply me/her with the evidence, my mum says she has not done it, but without the evidence I don’t know what to tell her. They have only given her 14 days to deal with it
    I'm not familiar with the "formal interview" procedure in these circumstances but why don't you find out what that involves and what are the consequences of attending (and who may go with her).

    If it's not her fridge then she may be able to make a formal (sworn) statement to that effect and the penalty ticket will be cancelled.

    Why not post up the penalty ticket with all personal details removed in case there's something written on it about appealing (or not) despite the Council's view that could only be achieved through court proceedings.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    It seems the draconian £400 fixed penalty notice was only introduced by the Government in May this year as an alternative to prosecuting fly tippers through the courts.

    I expect some Councils will see it as a money-spinner



    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...on-fly-tipping

    Di
    Yer not wrong especially as There are no restrictions on how councils can use income from fly-tippingFPNs.



    ​​​​

    https://www.carersuk.org/

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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Well we have heard nothing so far from them. I called to ask what was happening and they said that some officer was dealing with it. I asked if the reporting officer (the one that issued the FPN) had been back. They said that he had and now was on holiday. So it seems that they never made an attempt to call me to discuss the "evidence. I am assuming that they are going to take this further. Any advise would be helpful about what I can do next, my mum simply can not afford a solicitor, so I need to try to help as much as I can.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie G View Post
    Well we have heard nothing so far from them . . .
    Maybe your seven ranty phone calls had the desired effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Markie G View Post
    I have had to call them 7 times today as they put the phone down when I get into an argument about it . . . . They have now passed my calls to corporate complaints because they say that I am harassing them. Which is daft, I only called them that many times because they put the phone down
    Di
    Last edited by Diana M; 6th November 2016 at 23:36:PM.
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    I doubt there is much to be done until you hear further, other than continue trying to find proof it was not your mother's fridge.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    So, they have invited my mother for an interview, again the information is very vague as they have not given dates only saying on or before. The thing that’s daft about this is that we cannot even use the fact that she was not there (assuming she wasn’t on the day that the fridge was actually dumped) as it could be between now and 1967 the information is that vague. I am wanting to go in with her, but unsure about how I can force them to accept me going. My mum lives on her own and has been bullied by this neighbour a lot and it’s getting daft. Its very difficult to build a defence when you do not have a clue what they are using as evidence. How can you prove that she does not own something?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Can I suggest seeing a Solicitor they should be able to offer some advice especially a local one who may have dealt with this type of case

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

    Is this for a formal interview under caution?

    if it is note that your mother can leave the interview at any stage, and that it should be recorded and your mother is entitled to a copy.
    The council's next course of action will depend on the outcome of the interview.

    It might be worth requesting a copy of the council's prosecution policy and checking all angles, especially that the interviewer is properly authorised to conduct the interview.
    Similarly , if your mother has legal expenses insurance with her contents policy, she may be able to get advice and even a solicitor to accompany her

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