• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

    A good friend of my family has been visited on a number of occasions recently by Dukes to collect council tax debts on a previous property.

    She has been giving the bailiff cash just to get him to leave yet he gave her no recipts when he took this cash.

    Her other half is a bit of a waster and is hardly at home and they struggle to make ends meet. She also has 2 young kids and is very scared by these visits (hence giving him whatever cash she has on her at the time). However one good thing is that she has not let them in to the house. But she has no information on what she owes and the state of the accounts as she left it to her partner, I can only assume her fella has that information from Dukes.

    I've suggested that she contact Dukes by letter to request a full break down of the account. Is Letter number 1 or Letter 3 full SAR in this thread here the correct ones to use:

    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

    And in the meantime I've said not give him any more money or let them in.

    I've also suggested that she contact the council and get them to send the amounts owed, the properties they relate to and when the liability orders were issued.

    They live in a fully furnished rented house too. So how does she stand if the bailiff got entry to the house to levy or try to take goods?

    Also is there anything else she can do? I notice in the useful letters and documents section that theres a sworn declaration that the property is not hers and belongs to someone else, which in this case it does as its rented. Is that applicable in this case and is it something she should send?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Andy77; 9th September 2016, 09:12:AM.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

    Andy,

    Unfortunately, without knowing a bit more about the background, it is hard to properly advice. The risk that she faces at present is with a motor vehicle. If she has a car, it can be taken (subject of course to whether it is on finance etc).

    The sworn declaration letters are of no use whatsoever. Unfortunately, there are a number of companies charging debtors up to £150 for these declarations and enforcement companies merely note the letters on their system a continue with enforcement.

    If it is the case that a your friend genuinely owns nothing in the property, then she can outline this in an ordinary letter to the bailiff company. She will need to provide evidence of some sort (a copy of the inventory from the rental firm or landlord should suffice).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

      Having worked as a local authority bailiff for many years, here are my observations :

      Certificated bailiffs must give a receipt, not to do so is totally unprofessional and can give every impression that there is no accountability here. In fact that would be my first point of complaint to the local authority concerned.

      You can always refuse the bailiff legal entry and they have no right to enter if you do so. If they do enter against your wishes, it is an offence. But you must never leave a door open as they can walk through that. If a car is owned, make sure it is parked away from the property.

      As as for the house contents being part of the rental agreement, cute landlords normally attach a list of this in the lease although admittedly not all landlords are that cute. However, when you take the tenancy up, there should be an inventory of everything listed as present in the property. But bailiffs don't look for routine stuff, the look for higher value goods such as TVs, expensive electronics and jewellery. I can confirm that bailiffs have very little interest in removing goods, it is a labour of love and rarely represents/covers the debt concerned. Bailiffs have one main advantage and that is simply the threat of the unknown which is why their regulation needs to be continually tightened.

      From what hat you say, the debtors concerned are not on the ball with their debts ( not intended as a criticism ) and full details of the debt should be sourced from the council
      concerned as the appointed bailiffs are certainly not doing their job by taking cash without receipt. Unfortunately I have seen this happen before that led to criminal proceedings.

      Your friend end could even ask for advice at her local Citizens Advice Bureau and ask for their representation in the matter. Remember if bailiffs return papers, either makes no legal entry or no goods to remove, the case goes back to the issuing council.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

        They don't have a car and unfortunately no she isn't on the ball with the debt, having left it to her fella whos more interested in going on the p*ss with his mates. Shes sent off a letter for a full breakdown of the account from Dukes and also rang the council to get the figures sent from them too.

        Paying money with no receipt I thought was concerning.

        I'll mention the tenancy agreement too to see if an inventory was included in the agreement. I'm assuming it must have been but its worth a go.

        Thanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

          i have just recived a letter from dukes and they are atteding my property on mondey i have offerd a payment plan and they have refused and every thing i own is very little and will not cover the debt yet will incur more fees
          could any one help me with what i should say do to privent them taking what little i have
          i have a child that lives with me and i am petrifide they take things like washer and fridge and so on
          i am also on PIP (disability) would that help at all i really and worried and scared

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

            Originally posted by wayneofhull View Post
            i have just recived a letter from dukes and they are atteding my property on mondey i have offerd a payment plan and they have refused and every thing i own is very little and will not cover the debt yet will incur more fees
            could any one help me with what i should say do to privent them taking what little i have
            i have a child that lives with me and i am petrifide they take things like washer and fridge and so on
            i am also on PIP (disability) would that help at all i really and worried and scared
            Due to the urgency, I would contact the council tomorrow, either by telephone or in person. You need to speak with the recovery department. Don't be fobbed off by anyone else. Explain the situation, explain the offer you have made to Dukes and that it has been refused. State that by visiting, they appear to be manufacturing an excuse to add further fees to the account and you now ask the council to intervene in order for you to be allowed to settle this debt at an affordable rate.

            If you decide to go in person, take as much evidence of your income/benefits as possible.

            Any problems, post back.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

              i am calling them right now thank you

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                there teling me there i nothing they can do as its been passed to an external company and colectors agent
                so there not willing to intervine
                and spoken to dukes again and explained to them that the belongings will not cover the debt but there tellig me they will have to come back to my house see what i have and take belongings including my sons things and i will incure a 110 pond fee for some thing then a removal fee then storage then auction house fees
                meaning my 500 pound debt will turn in to a 1500 debt essentally and the goods they sell will eaqual say 300 still leaving the debt at more then it started wouldnt mind the initial debt was maybe 200 and 300ish is fees
                i feel lost and have no idea what to do

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                  [MENTION=90984]Indebt[/MENTION] :noidea:
                  Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                  It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                  recte agens confido

                  ~~~~~

                  Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                  I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                  But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                  Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                    Originally posted by wayneofhull View Post
                    there teling me there i nothing they can do as its been passed to an external company and colectors agent
                    so there not willing to intervine
                    and spoken to dukes again and explained to them that the belongings will not cover the debt but there tellig me they will have to come back to my house see what i have and take belongings including my sons things and i will incure a 110 pond fee for some thing then a removal fee then storage then auction house fees
                    meaning my 500 pound debt will turn in to a 1500 debt essentally and the goods they sell will eaqual say 300 still leaving the debt at more then it started wouldnt mind the initial debt was maybe 200 and 300ish is fees
                    i feel lost and have no idea what to do
                    You now need to write a letter to the CEO of your council. Head the letter "Formal Complaint Stage 1" Put your council tax reference number at the top of the letter and date it todays date.

                    Explain how your financial troubles and the benefits that you are receiving. Explain how you made an offer to Dukes to pay the debt back at (put in what your offer was). Explain that Dukes refused your offer and have threatened to come round and take your goods on Monday. Explain that you then contacted the council for help in ensuring an affordable arrangement was set up. However the council have stated that they refuse to get involved. You have then contacted Dukes again who have threatened to take both yours and your sons belongings, turning a £500 debt into £1500. You wish to complain about the following issues:

                    1. Dukes have refused to accept a reasonable repayment plan. They appear to be doing so in order to manufacture an additional fee of £235 for visiting. The Taking Control of Goods: National Standards (National Standards), published by the Ministry of Justice states at paragraph 24 that debtors must not be pressed into making unrealistic offers. At paragraph 25, it states that realistic offers should be relayed to creditors. Whilst my offer may be over the allocated time that the council have agreed with Dukes, my exceptional circumstances justify consideration from the council. A key part of debt recovery is the need for arrangements to be both sustainable and affordable. Dukes have ignored the National Standards by at least not discussing my situation with the council.

                    2. The council have refused to intervene in what is clearly a genuine case of hardship and probably involves a degree of vulnerability. The National Standards state at paragraph 7 that creditors should remember that enforcement agents are acting on their behalf and that ultimately, they are responsible and accountable for their agents. At paragraph 8 it states that creditors should act proportionately when seeking to recover a debt, taking into account the debtors circumstances. Furthermore, the Guidance to local councils on good practice in the collection of council tax arrears, published by the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG guidance) states at section 4.5 that councils should be prepared to deal with individuals at any point. By refusing to help in setting up an affordable, the council have ignored guidance from both the Ministry of Justice and the DCLG. It is little short on nonsense to suggest that the council can do nothing because the debt has been passed to an outside agency. It is also worth pointing out that Section 25 of the Local Government Act 1974 defines the authorities to Local Government Ombudsman investigations and that it states clearly that if an act is carried out by someone acting on behalf of an authority, then it is the authority that is liable for that act. Clearly if an authority are liable for an act then they are able to intervene at any given time.

                    3. Dukes have now stated that they are going to take both my sons and mine goods and that charges of around £1,000 will be added to my account. Firstly, Dukes do not know if there are any goods of value to control, let alone whether they will be allowed access to them (which they won't be). Paragraph 20 of the National Standards states that enforcement agents must not be deceitful and in particular, not to misrepresent their powers or to falsely imply or state that an action may be taken before it is known whether that action may legally be taken. They have told me that I will incur a £110 fee plus a removal fee. However, there is no such thing as a removal fee in prescribed legislation. Dukes do not even know if I have any goods of value so therefore should not be falsely implying that I Will incur fees.

                    As a resolution to this complaint, I ask the council to intervene and consider the affordable, sustainable and realistic repayment plan that I have put forward. I also ask that enforcement is placed on hold until this complaint has reached a conclusion.

                    You really need to get this off by email ASAP. You will have to find the CEO's email from your councils website. You should also send a copy of the letter to this handsome chap:
                    cnaylor@dukeslimited.co.uk Just ask him to consider the contents of the email and that the compliance stage is not restricted to 7 clear days whilst negotiations are ongoing and that you ask him to place enforcement on hold until the matter is resolved. You should also advise him that you consider yourself vulnerable and that you are gathering evidence to forward onto the council. His secretary usually responds but he will have read your email so don't worry if the response is not as positive as you would hope for

                    Finally, for the avoidance of doubt, Dukes have no lawful right to force entry into your home and you are under no obligation to let them in. You are not even obliged to talk to them and I'd recommend that you don't do so. You should keep all your doors locked and only answer after checking who is knocking. I assume that you have no car outside?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                      thank you sooo much for that i have also been chatting to another member on here that has advised me to go to the citizans advice burue witch i intend to do so in the morning
                      and yes i have a car but parking it away from home and as for the letter dukes left it says and i quote
                      "we do not need you to be presant for us to seize and remove your goods"i am guessing that is them saying they can come in to my house when i am not here but i have a dog that will bite them if i am not presant could my dog be put down for an act of aggression (hes a rotty so a big dog and will make hes presance known)
                      also with the points you have put would i be ok to copy and paste them as i am terrible at english and talking via email and words with out rambling on and on
                      and would it be also worth calling the agent and/or the council to tell them i have sent the emails ?
                      and again thank you so much

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                        If you are able to get an appointment tomorrow with the CAB then you should go. There is nothing to lose.

                        The letter that you have received stating that you do not need to be present for a bailiff to remove goods is a very common one indeed. For the avoidance of doubt, it does NOT mean that the bailiff can come into your home while you are out (unless of course you were silly enough to leave the door unlocked).

                        Goods can be removed in your absence and these goods would be goods OUTSIDE of your property (typically a motor vehicle, motorbike, expensive garden machinery etc).

                        Please do not worry yourself about your dog.

                        Going back slightly, you state that Dukes refused to accept your payment proposal. Was this proposal made on receipt of the Notice of Enforcement (this would be the initial letter that you would have received in the post)?

                        What proposal did you put forward?

                        Have you provided any evidence to Dukes that you are in receipt of PiP?

                        Are you a single parent?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                          No what it is saying is that we do not need you to be present to seize your goods if we can get access to them.

                          ​In reality, this means that if you leave your doors unlocked or have goods of value outside, they are lawfully entitled to seize goods. For council tax, bailiffs are generally not allowed to take goods away until it has been OK'd by the council.

                          Yes copy & paste and yes, call both the council & agent. Explain that the emails are formal complaints and that you expect enforcement to be placed on hold until the complaint is resolved.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                            ok thank you so much i shall get the email typed up asap and sent to them both and follow up with calls
                            i shall pop i to CAB in the morning (its a drop in so should get seen)
                            as for the pip they have not asked for prove how ever i have offerd them it
                            as for the agreement put forward i spoke with the agent today and said i can pay weekly and clear it off asap he declined so i spoke with my brother who said he would pay it off weekly until the end of december when he gets hes studant finance and then any monies owed on the account will be paid off in full again they refused
                            i didnt know there was a notice of enforcement until todays actions this is due to fault of my own as i tend to dis regard post due to my issues

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Dukes bailiffs collecting council tax debt advice needed please

                              Originally posted by wayneofhull View Post

                              and spoken to dukes again and explained to them that the belongings will not cover the debt but there tellig me they will have to come back to my house see what i have and take belongings including my sons things and i will incure a 110 pond fee for some thing then a removal fee then storage then auction house fees meaning my 500 pound debt will turn in to a 1500 debt essentally and the goods they sell will eaqual say 300 still leaving the debt at more then it started wouldnt mind the initial debt was maybe 200 and 300ish is fees
                              From reading your posts, it would seem that the debt to the council is approx £500.

                              You also mention in a recent post that a letter has been left advising that goods can be removed even if you are not present. From this comment it is CLEAR that an enforcement agent has already visited your property. If so, an enforcement fee of £235 has already been applied to your account.

                              A 'removal' fee may only be charged if goods were to be taken (most usually, a motor vehicle). When it comes to council tax debts, it is actually very uncommon for a vehicle to be taken.

                              Comment

                              View our Terms and Conditions

                              LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                              If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                              If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.
                              Working...
                              X