Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[Jojo71]

Hi,

my son started his apprenticeship at the end of May. His learning mentor has only been to see him once (they are supposed to come every month). He has been thrown in at the deep end is often left without support. Friday was one such day, he was sent off to pick up a vehicle and there were numerous issues with it when he got there. His manager was on leave and the other people he could contact were unavailable. He was worried about making a mistake and it all became very stressful but he dealt with it correctly. When he got back the senior person in charge told him to take his lunch break even though it was after lunch. He went on his lunch and came back, as it wasn't busy the senior person in charge said he could go home early (it was approx an hour early).

Today he went in as normal and he asked his manager if he'd heard about Friday and it instigated a chat. During this chat his manager said 'I don't think this is working, I don't feel like you're going to improve and I don't think this position is right for you.' To which my son replied 'I do want this position and I will improve given more time.' To which his manager repeated what he had said before, several times until he eventually said 'go home'. My son was a bit bewildered by this as it appears to have come out of nowhere. My son asked if he could have a meeting with his mentor and his manager and his manager refused and said 'I just don't think it's working'. So my son asked 'what happens now' to which he said 'I'll take you back to your car and you go home.' My son then contacted personnel who were unaware of what was happening but said 'as he was in his probationary period the manger could do that'.

He has come home and I asked to look at his apprenticeship agreement, he hasn't got one. I looked at his contract and they have given him a fixed term contract in which his job title has been given as Apprentice Sales Consultant (Business).

My understanding was that all apprentices should have an Apprenticeship Agreement. I feel as though they have given him the fixed term contract to circumvent the protection apprenticeships afford.

I just wondered where he stood legally as he's been left in limbo.

Many thanks
Jo

[des8]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

I don't know much about the new apprenticeships but I recall that to be governed by Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 there has to be a written and signed agreement.
If there is such an agreement normal employment rules apply and yes your son could be dismissed.
However if the apprenticeship does not comply with ASCALA 2009, the agreement will probably/possibly be governed by common law principles.
Under common law an apprentice has much more protection, his contract is probably for a fixed term and can only be terminated early for extreme misconduct.
There is therefor a possibility of claiming compensation.

A word of warning: I'm writing from memory from a case a few years ago, and I'm in Wales, where education is devolved and rules are different from England.
Hopefully others will be along with words of wisdom.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Thanks for the reply.

He applied for a modern apprenticeship but when he got sent his contract they said that they were putting him on their own apprenticeship. Not realising the significance of it my son signed the contract which is a fixed term contract for a year with a six month probationary period in (which gives them the freedom to dismiss him with a weeks notice).

The apprenticeship that he applied for gave him the job security and training for a year. The contract they gave him doesn't actually appear to be for an apprenticeship, it appears to be a fixed term contract with the job title apprentice.

The contract that he signed also states if his contract is terminated he is not to work for a competitor within a 15 mile radius for 6 months, making it impossible for him to complete the training he started.

It appears (to me) that the company have advertised a government backed apprenticeship through a training provider and once the job has been offered and accepted changed it to an apprenticeship in name only and that just doesn't seem right.

[charitynjw]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

The contract that he signed also states if his contract is terminated he is not to work for a competitor within a 15 mile radius for 6 months, making it impossible for him to complete the training he started.

Restrictive covenant clauses such as this are quite common but are usually not worth the paper they are printed on. Unless the (ex) employer can prove that it is there to protect legitimate business interests & goes no further than is reasonably necessary, it will be void on the grounds of restraint of trade & contrary to public policy.

[matt3942]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

[MENTION=66751]Jojo71[/MENTION]

Without seeing the contract/agreement I couldn't say for certain but it seems as though the employer has entered into an apprenticeship contract, which affords an apprentice additional employment rights - an apprentice (on an apprenticeship contract) cannot be dismissed except in cases of extreme misconduct.

I would certainly consider taking this further. Your son may be able to make a claim for breach of contract, and damages to the value of the what he would have received if the contract had run its full term.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

http://www.cipd.co.uk/pm/peoplemanag...-straight.aspx

[des8]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

I think sight of the "Contract" wold be helpful to peeps on here.
Any chance of posting it up. suitably redacted of course?

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Hi, will post it up once I've got it scanned on. Having looked at it myself I do not believe it is an apprenticeship contract, it states it is a fixed term contract and with the job title of apprentice, which is different to the job advertised as he wouldn't get the apprenticeship qualification at the end and he has none of the protection or guarantees of the apprenticeship. This is what I believe is wrong, they advertised one thing but in reality it was something else. It was advertised by a training provider who said there would be on the job training every 4-6 weeks, this failed to materialise too. The training provider shows the government apprenticeship logo on their website and appears to be a endorsed by various training agencies.

It appears that they have gotten government funding to provide apprenticeships but have tried to go apprenticeship-lite and the real job provided is an apprenticeship in name alone.

Will see if I can unearth the advert too.

Many thanks for taking the time to read.

[matt3942]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Thanks [MENTION=66751]Jojo71[/MENTION]

An apprenticeship agreement has to satisfy specific criteria to be classed as an agreement under s32 of the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 - simply stating its a fixed-term contract and changing the job title to 'Apprentice' is not sufficient.

When you are able to post the document we can advise you better.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Hi,

sorry about the attachments, hope there's still enough detail, I could only load the first 5 pages, will load the last 5 on another message. The advert for the apprenticeship is splashed with the company's details and cannot be uploaded without revealing the details

Personnel called my son this morning and confirmed his contract had been terminated. They also confirmed it was a fixed term contract with a probationary period, not an apprenticeship. As he came from a learning provider they put him on a fixed term contract as an apprentice so he didn't have an apprenticeship agreement.

The apprenticeship that was advertised was different to the job he ended up with. The advertised one was for 2 years with an NVQ. This one is only for a year but he had still done the work towards his NVQ. HIs contract has no mention of training provided, aside from them being able to reclaim fees for it.

Thanks
Jo

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

The last 5 pages

thanks
Jo

[des8]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Busy at moment icing wedding cake for son!
Will have a read later

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Many thanks, much appreciated

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

To me it looks as though they're well within their rights to terminate, my issue is with them telling my son he is on an apprenticeship but he isn't.

It just feels wrong to entice someone in with the promise of an apprenticeship for it to be something entirely different.

I've spoken to my son further and once he'd attended the apprenticeship day and been offered the post, he was then contacted by personnel who then asked him to complete another application form, this must be where they changed the job. I've checked the email and it is a blank application form and his manager helped him complete it. Unfortunately he didn't keep a copy himself.

If nothing else it will be a harsh lesson for my son in keeping all documentation and making sure he has everything in writing.

Many thanks
Jo

[matt3942]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

I can't see the attachments at the moment because I'm on my phone; however, if they've simply taken their standard employment contract and changed the title to include 'Apprentice(ship)', they will have created an apprenticeship contract.

This means the employer cannot terminate the contract unless the apprentice becomes 'unteachable'.

This is a pitfall many employers find themselves in.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice regarding apprenticeships needed please

Thanks [MENTION=67649]matt3942[/MENTION], any advice is much appreciated