Resigning under investigation

[Openlaw15]

Re: Resigning under investigation

Lol!........pedant! :taunt:

Ha ha am not being. it's a technical interpretation of the law :P Ok, may be I was a tad *says 4 hail marys and 2 our fathers :P.

[JulieM]

Re: Resigning under investigation

Hi
Have you had the investigation meeting yet?

Technically I believe an investigation meeting does not carry an automatic right to be accompanied but many companies, particularly bigger ones will allow it.

If you are signed off sick from work they can not force you to attend although they might get occupational health involved, again depends on the size of the company.

I know now it can be difficult sticking to the rules sometimes , many years ago I was told off for phoning on authorisation on a debit card even though the system had authorised it. The guy was buying 200 fags and £50 cash back and the name on the card would have been unusual for his appearance. The card was stolen but I was accused of wrongdoing because it wasn't in the rule book.

[gthampgt]

Re: Resigning under investigation

that is one of the issues as I was dealing with an issue and customer wantEd a large refund I said pay him and then I will do the refund later when had time

[Openlaw15]

Re: Resigning under investigation

Hi
Have you had the investigation meeting yet?

Technically I believe an investigation meeting does not carry an automatic right to be accompanied but many companies, particularly bigger ones will allow it.

If you are signed off sick from work they can not force you to attend although they might get occupational health involved, again depends on the size of the company.

I know now it can be difficult sticking to the rules sometimes , many years ago I was told off for phoning on authorisation on a debit card even though the system had authorised it. The guy was buying 200 fags and £50 cash back and the name on the card would have been unusual for his appearance. The card was stolen but I was accused of wrongdoing because it wasn't in the rule book.

By law, if the employer makes a reasonable request for representation at a grievance hearing and or a disciplinary hearing, and no legal rep. or union official is available, under the law the employer must grant this request for a companion. The employee is entitled to a worker companion who may address said hearings' staff, but they cannot answer the questions directed to the employee. Said person can also confer (discuss privately) strategies etc with the companion/ worker.

[JulieM]

Re: Resigning under investigation

By law, if the employer makes a reasonable request for representation at a grievance hearing and or a disciplinary hearing, and no legal rep. or union official is available, under the law the employer must grant this request for a companion. The employee is entitled to a worker companion who may address said hearings' staff, but they cannot answer the questions directed to the employee. Said person can also confer (discuss privately) strategies etc with the companion/ worker.

That's why I said technically. If it is just an investigation and fact finding meeting it is neither a disciplinary or grievance meeting. Many companies will allow someone to accompany but it is not automatic.

[JulieM]

Re: Resigning under investigation

I believe you are also wrong about who can represent you. It is a union official or employee of the union or a co worker. You can ask for a 3rd party but employers do not have to agree. Clearly if other legislation or terms of employment came into play such as the equality act (2010) the situation might change.

https://www.gov.uk/disciplinary-proc...inary-hearings

[Openlaw15]

Re: Resigning under investigation

I believe you are also wrong about who can represent you. It is a union official or employee of the union or a co worker. You can ask for a 3rd party but employers do not have to agree. Clearly if other legislation or terms of employment came into play such as the equality act (2010) the situation might change.

https://www.gov.uk/disciplinary-proc...inary-hearings

Hi Julie

Section 10 (3 (c)), Employment Relations Act 1999 clearly states that the employee, in a disciplinary/ grievance hearing, may take another employee/ colleague (ie 'Worker') in with him. A union official likely means a shop steward who works for the company where both employer and said official are union members. The Equality Acts do not need to apply. If the Equality Acts were to apply there would have been amendments to said 1999 Act to that effect.

Thank you, Charity

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigning under investigation

That's why I said technically. If it is just an investigation and fact finding meeting it is neither a disciplinary or grievance meeting. Many companies will allow someone to accompany but it is not automatic.

There are exceptions, though I suspect only in exceptional circumstances.

University professor is allowed non-specified companion at investigatory meeting
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2015/2300.html

[JulieM]

Re: Resigning under investigation

Openlaw
Although you did clarify it later, your initial statement was that an employer must allow a reasonable request for the employee to be accompanied. You also said a legal rep was one of the people allowed to accompany. I was just detailing exactly who could accompany
A Union rep
An employee of the Union
A co worker

A request for a family member, lawyer A.N. Other can be refused.

My pointt about the equality act was that if the person being disciplined was covered by the equality act , that might come into play. For example a deaf employee might need a signer etc.

The link provided by charity explains why I said technically for an investigation meeting. The meeting in that link was more than an investigation IMO because a statement was going to be asked for that would be put in front of the disciplinary meeting.

Again , with an investigation meeting, the equality act may come in . Let's say the person being investigated had developed some mental health problems that made them excessively anxious, it would be an appropriate adjustment to allow a companion who could call time out and help the person remain calm.

[charitynjw]

Re: Resigning under investigation

@JulieM

I do agree generally with you.
The SC, on appeal in R (on the application of G) (Respondent) v The Governors of X School (Appellant) [2011] UKSC 30, overturned a CA decision which involved an Article 6 argument.
It was decided (I believe by majority) that in that particular case the employer was within their rights not to allow legal representation in a disciplinary.

I would also add that sometimes the line between investigation & disciplinary can become 'blurred'.

[JulieM]

Re: Resigning under investigation

I would agree that the lines between investigation and disciplinary can be blurred and to be safe an employer should probably allow someone to attend.