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    Rev2016's Avatar

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    Default Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    We recently returned from a holiday in Devon, just outside Braunton. One evening my wife and I went out for a meal and on the way back we stopped off at a bar and parked in the car park above.

    A week or so after returning I received a penalty notice showing my car entering the car park at 21:48 and leaving at 22:21. I challenged the company and they have rejected my appeal. I have the option now of paying the £60 penalty or taking my appeal to POPLA and if unsuccessful paying £100.

    Would anyone have any advice on my appeal to POPLA and what are my chances of getting an overturn?

    My main point is, that the car park was not adequately lit and does not make it clear that charges apply (I'm guessing 24 hours as I did not see any signage). We have stayed at the same place for the last 3 years and parked there last year without penalty so I am guessing that this is a new thing. Unfortunately, we don't live near the town, so I am unable to get any photographic evidence.

    Any advice would be welcome,

    Thanks,

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    Can you scan the PCn and post up ? (sanitised)

    What have the pub management said ?

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    The George Hotel which is where we had a drink have said that they cannot help, the land is owned by Enterprise Inns and they employ PP to administer the parking. At the time I appealed, I was not aware that the land was owned by the pub, otherwise this would have also been part of it.

    I have attached the PCN as requested, thanks.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    Have you identified the driver to them ? (used their name or "i" etc)

    M1
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    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    Here is my original appeal, I have not directly said who was driving.

    My family and I were on holiday week commencing 18thJune, we have stayed outside Braunton for the past 3 years. My wife and I wentout for a meal and afterwards stopped for a drink. There was in myopinion not enough information to suggest that this car park was not a Pay andDisplay car park like all the others where charges stopped after 5pm. The largeP that isn't so different to the council owned car parks outside the entrancein the almost darkness to me was enough to make me believe that this was acouncil owned car park, as well as we have used this car park for the pastcouple of years without any penalty. I am not happy about receiving a penaltynotice and believe that the car park was not adequately lit to show thatcharges applied after 5pm and that an ANPR system was in place. Had this beenclear then I would have adhered to the instructions or taken my car to a carpark where charges were not applied. Please could I ask you to consider myappeal and let me know your final response in order for me if necessary to takemy appeal to the ombudsman.

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    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    Hmm.... i'll sort something soon.

    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

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    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Rev2016's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    Wow...! Thank you, I will let you know the outcome....

  9. #9
    Rev2016's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton

    Good Morning,

    Received POPLA decision, appeal accepted..:goodjob:

    Acceptance on the fact that my main complaint point was lighting in car park not being sufficient to suggest 24 hours.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for your help M1...

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    Mrswoods's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    I have just received a ticket for the same car park! Can I use the same letter but amended? I didn't leave the car park just fed and changed my baby. Thanks

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    I appealed to the POPLA on exactly the same grounds and got rejected????

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    Quote Originally Posted by EBrooks3006 View Post
    I appealed to the POPLA on exactly the same grounds and got rejected????
    Post up the rejection. Probably won't help but might find out why.

    Also they don't do court very often so ignoring is still a viable option. http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Premier_Park.html


    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    Assessor summary of operator case
    The operator’s case is that the appellant did not purchase any parking time.


    Assessor summary of your case
    The appellant’s case is that she did not see any signs due to no lighting at the site.


    Assessor supporting rational for decision
    The terms and conditions of the site state “Please pay for your stay, parking tariffs apply at all times. If you enter or park on this land contravening the terms and conditions displayed, you are agreeing to pay Parking Charge Notice (PCN) £100”. The operator has issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the motorist as their parking session expired or unpaid. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the appellants vehicle XXXXX, entering Exeter Road Car Park on 15 October 2016, at 19:27 exiting at 20:52, for a stay totalling one hour 24 minutes. The operator has provided a system generated print out, showing a search for the appellant’s vehicle registration number. This confirms that the vehicle was not been registered on the system for a ticket on the date of the event. The appellant’s grounds for appeal are that site is not adequately lit at night, the appellant states she did not see any signage when she entered the site. In relation to signage, Section 18.3 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice states: “You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand”. Within its response, the operator has provided a couple of photographs documenting the signage at the location. On review of this information, I am satisfied that the signage is conspicuous and legible, especially due to the site being the size it is. I consider that there is enough lighting at the site to bring the terms and conditions to motorists attention. When looking at appeals, POPLA merely considers whether a parking contract was formed and, if so, whether the motorist kept to the conditions of the contract, POPLA cannot allow an appeal if a contract was formed and the motorist did not keep to the parking conditions. On this occasion the appellant did not purchase a parking ticket to cover the entire duration of stay and therefore failed to comply with the terms and conditions of the site. As such, I can confirm that the parking charge has been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal.



    - - - Updated - - -

    I even sent photos which shows how bad the lighting was but this was not considered as I sent it separately to my original appeal evidence (I have claimed this was a procedural error and had the photos been taken into account it would have been successful). The photos from the operator clearly had a flash on which I also brought to the POPLA's attention.

  14. #14
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    Well that is certainly contrary to the reported winning decision. You could complain

    Sometimes the outcome of your appeal is not what you want to hear. Your appeal has independently been reviewed by a professional assessor taking into consideration the relevant law, regulatory rules, guidance and standards and the British Parking Association Code of Practice. You cannot challenge the outcome of your appeal with POPLA. Regardless, you should be satisfied with the level of service you have received free of charge from us. If you disagree with the outcome of your appeal, you will need to follow alternative routes.
    We can only investigate complaints that involve allegations of poor service or performance, for example where we have:

    • treated you rudely;
    • failed to keep you updated on progress;
    • caused unnecessary delays;
    • failed to explain things properly; or
    • any other shortfall in service

    If you have a complaint about the standard of service that we have provided, please send an email to complaints@popla.co.uk. If you have any queries regarding the status of your appeal, or if you feel we have not considered the evidence you have provided, please email info@popla.co.uk and we will be in touch soon.






    Did you only appeal on this 1 point ?

    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    Emails after appeal rejected below. This was sent to who dealt with my appeal and not the complaints department which I wasn't aware of as I knew they said it "could not be challenged"

    Dear Jamie Macrae,










    Thank you for your email. I am aware that my appeal was rejected however I note that my additional evidence sent by email in response to the operator's evidence was not taken into account before a decision was made.


    I accept that I ticked a box to confirm that I understood and accepted your terms and conditions, which stated as follows: "You will not be able to edit your appeal once you have submitted it."


    I believed this to mean that I cannot edit what I have already written but even in my evidence I stated that I will be taking photographs and asked not to rule against me without having seen them. This was not brought to my attention then, only when I emailed over the photographs and video as I was unable to attach them to the further comments I made following the operator's evidence on your website.


    In my view this is a procedural error and would be grateful if this could be reconsidered based on the fact that my photographs are vital evidence. They show that the signs in the car park were not easily visible and as such I do not understand how I can be said to have knowingly formed a contract with Premier Park. At no time did I consent to their terms and conditions.


    Furthermore it is so clear that the photographs taken by the operator has a flash on, which is why you were led to believe that the signs were adequately lit up. They are such a misrepresentation of how the car park actually looks, not least when the car park is full (which it was at the time of parking).

    I would be extremely grateful to hear from you at your earliest convenience as I really feel that I have been disadvantaged throughout this process. I still uphold that the ticket was issued unfairly and do not intend to pay the charge.






    Good Afternoon,








    Thank you for your email.

    Please be advised that both the appellant and the operator are given only one opportunity to submit evidence. As previously advised, after the appeal has been submitted we are unable to accept any further evidence.

    As such, the outcome of the appeal will not be changed.

    Kind regards,

    Alexandra Roby
    POPLA Team




  16. #16
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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    It's the claimants case to prove. Were the pictures submitted by them at night time ?

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    EBrooks3006's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    There was a mixture of day time and evening photos. Ones in the dark were taken with an obvious camera flash in order to see what the signs said.

    I have written a letter to Premier Park direct enclosing copies of my photos saying the there was a procedural error in the appeal and had the photos been taken into account, its would have been successful. I will see if they issue proceedings to recover as the deadline to pay was today.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    I had a very similar incident at the Exeter Road car park. I raised a POPLA challenge on the basis of inadequate lighting and signage. Premier Parking presented a 50 page document to POPLA in their defense with photographic evidence of reported night-time conditions. I too challenged the fact that the 'night-time' photographs were taken using flash and therefore did not represent actual night-time conditions and also that Premier Parking admitted in their letter that there is no direct lighting in the car park. POPLA still rejected my case.

    I don't live in the area, but it doesn't seem that the car park lighting nor signage has been improved since the original in July 2016 - so I'm still left wondering how POPLA how found in favour for the original case, but has subsequently rejected what appear to be very 'similar' cases. Perhaps Premier had improved their defense and provided additional 'night time' evidence...?

    Anyway, would seem that the honest folks are at the losing end of what I still believe to be inadequate lighting and signage, and 'sharp' practices employed by Premier Parking at this site - the number of email here would suggest there is a problem at this site! Beware to all those who park at Exeter Road Car Park at night and think twice about whether to challenge the case based on 'inadequate lighting'.

  19. #19
    Mrswoods's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    I have now received a solicitors letter regarding my ticket. I have tried contacting premier parking and they don't reply unless you want to pay! The fact a solicitor has written to me do you think likely it is to go to court?

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    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    Hard to say without sight of it.

    They are increasing their court presence but it's still a very low percentage of tickets issued and well under 100 out of 60000

    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  21. #21
    Mrswoods's Avatar

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    Default Re: Premier Park - Exeter Road, Braunton - won

    I'm not sure how to add the picture of the letter?[/QUOTE]

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