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  1. #1
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    Default Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi all,

    Can I ask what the out come of this was did you hear back from wright hassal? (http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...of-Claim/page2 ) I have just received a formal letter of claim for a PCN that was issued by Civil Enforcement Limited. The letter states 'unless the debt of £236 is paid within 14 days we will review this matter and may be left with no alternative but to issue county court proceedings'. I am unsure of what to do next so any help would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Edit to suit.

    Dear BW Legal,






    I write in response to your letter before action dated xxxth July 2016, the contents of which are noted.
















    As the pre action protocols expect us to exchange sufficient information to understand each others position please forward to myself the original parking charge notice and a picture of the signs at the location as well as the operators contract which allows them to operate at the site (or indeed confirmation they own the land in question).
















    As well as the information already requested please answer the following questions :-
















    What type of car park is it ?
















    What contravention gives a cause of action ?
















    Who contravened your rules ?
















    Who you are pursuing ?
















    Have you followed the rules laid down in the Protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 ?
















    How is the £254 made up ?
















    Not only will this information help comply with the pre action protocols it will also help achieve the over riding objective.
















    Having done some research on your claims i request that if you ignore my requests for information that your claim complies with
















    CPR 16
















    Contents of the claim form
    16.2
    (1) The claim form must –
    (a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim
















    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include –
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;
















    Practice direction 16
















    Other matters to be included in particulars of claim












    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.
















    Practice direction 22
















    Who may sign the statement of truth
    3.1 In a statement of case, a response or an application notice, the statement of truth must be signed by
















    (2) the legal representative of the party or litigation friend.
















    3.7 Where a party is legally represented, the legal representative may sign the statement of truth on his behalf. The statement signed by the legal representative will refer to the client’s belief, not his own. In signing he must state the capacity in which he signs and the name of his firm where appropriate.
















    3.9 The individual who signs a statement of truth must print his full name clearly beneath his signature.
















    3.10 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.
































    Practice direction 7E
















    Signature
    10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.














    I await your response.
















    Yours sincerely








    M1
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    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi, for the past 10 years if my wife was working late, I'd collect her by waiting on a side road across the road from the station. I'd rarely get out of the car but wait with the engine running. Just before Xmas 2015 I did the same thing but about a month letter I got a Parking Charge from Civil Enforcement saying they had a picture of my car parking in an area where parking was prohibited. The letter actually says the Parking Event is "Authorised vehicles only" Surprised, I went back to the location and true enough there are now signs up saying you can't park and will be fined if you do. I didn't see them at the time and probably so used to wait (literally at least the past 10 years) there for so long I also never thought to look. I've ignored all the letters and now have received a formal letter of claim letter from Wright Hassall saying I have 14 days from the date of the letter to pay the debt. If not, they will review the matter and may be left with no alternative but to issue CCJ...which will remain on the Register of Judgments, Order's and Fines for 6 years. Any advice on what to do? They're looking for £256 which I'm loathe to pay as it's not like I went into a car park and overstayed but literally just waited in my car and caused no obstruction or inconvenience to anyone. Definitely seems excessive. Not sure if it's relevant but my car is a personal lease so they got my details from the lease company via the DLVA. I'm not the registered owner. Thanks,

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Quote Originally Posted by london boy View Post
    Hi, for the past 10 years if my wife was working late, I'd collect her by waiting on a side road across the road from the station. I'd rarely get out of the car but wait with the engine running. Just before Xmas 2015 I did the same thing but about a month letter I got a Parking Charge from Civil Enforcement saying they had a picture of my car parking in an area where parking was prohibited. The letter actually says the Parking Event is "Authorised vehicles only" Surprised, I went back to the location and true enough there are now signs up saying you can't park and will be fined if you do. I didn't see them at the time and probably so used to wait (literally at least the past 10 years) there for so long I also never thought to look. I've ignored all the letters and now have received a formal letter of claim letter from Wright Hassall saying I have 14 days from the date of the letter to pay the debt. If not, they will review the matter and may be left with no alternative but to issue CCJ...which will remain on the Register of Judgments, Order's and Fines for 6 years. Any advice on what to do? They're looking for £256 which I'm loathe to pay as it's not like I went into a car park and overstayed but literally just waited in my car and caused no obstruction or inconvenience to anyone. Definitely seems excessive. Not sure if it's relevant but my car is a personal lease so they got my details from the lease company via the DLVA. I'm not the registered owner. Thanks,
    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    Edit to suit.

    Dear BW Legal,






    I write in response to your letter before action dated xxxth July 2016, the contents of which are noted.
















    As the pre action protocols expect us to exchange sufficient information to understand each others position please forward to myself the original parking charge notice and a picture of the signs at the location as well as the operators contract which allows them to operate at the site (or indeed confirmation they own the land in question).
















    As well as the information already requested please answer the following questions :-
















    What type of car park is it ?
















    What contravention gives a cause of action ?
















    Who contravened your rules ?
















    Who you are pursuing ?
















    Have you followed the rules laid down in the Protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 ?
















    How is the £254 made up ?
















    Not only will this information help comply with the pre action protocols it will also help achieve the over riding objective.
















    Having done some research on your claims i request that if you ignore my requests for information that your claim complies with
















    CPR 16
















    Contents of the claim form
    16.2
    (1) The claim form must –
    (a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim
















    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include –
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;
















    Practice direction 16
















    Other matters to be included in particulars of claim












    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.
















    Practice direction 22
















    Who may sign the statement of truth
    3.1 In a statement of case, a response or an application notice, the statement of truth must be signed by
















    (2) the legal representative of the party or litigation friend.
















    3.7 Where a party is legally represented, the legal representative may sign the statement of truth on his behalf. The statement signed by the legal representative will refer to the client’s belief, not his own. In signing he must state the capacity in which he signs and the name of his firm where appropriate.
















    3.9 The individual who signs a statement of truth must print his full name clearly beneath his signature.
















    3.10 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.
































    Practice direction 7E
















    Signature
    10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.














    I await your response.
















    Yours sincerely








    M1
    That's what i'd do.

    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    thanks for the reply M1. I really appreciate it. May as ask why do you think this is a better approach than continuing to ignore? I read somewhere that as soon as you acknowledge one of their letters then they are more likely to follow through as opposed to potentially dropping it.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Ignoring all bar a letter before claim or claim form is fine but a letter before action is more serious. WH have also been following up with a claim. A proper response can marks you as "difficult" and not worth it as they'll have easier fish to fry. If they proceed to a claim you have set up a claim that they are unreasonable which can help with costs whether you win or lose.

    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi M1,

    This is what they came back with -

    Dear XXX

    Our Reference: XXX
    Client Reference: XXX
    Car Parking Operator: CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD
    Instructed by: ZZPS Limited
    Balance outstanding: £ 236.00

    With reference to your recent correspondence, the contents of which have been duly noted.

    When you received the initial notification of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) it will have stated the date of the PCN, which will usually be called the contravention date, you had 28 days from this date in which you could have appealed the PCN. Upon receipt of a response to the appeal you will have been provided with a Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) reference.

    POPLA is independent of all parties to appeals, including the operator and the British Parking Association, as are the Assessors who make the determinations. An appeal to POPLA must have been made within 28 days. As you have not appealed within this timeframe your account has been passed to ourselves to recover.

    Please note if you can provide proof that you have an appeal which was either upheld or is being dealt with by POPLA we will be happy to action your case accordingly.

    This matter is now at recovery stage, and our client has confirmed copies of any previous correspondence or photographic evidence will only be provided before the court should this matter progress.

    We can confirm the car park XXX is a private car park for permit holders only, the contravention was “Authorised vehicles only”. And therefore you parked in a designated area which was not for general parking for the public and breached the terms and conditions for parking as detailed within the signage on the site. Therefore a valid Parking Charge notice was issued.

    The Parking Charges issued for and on behalf of the landowner are levied on the basis of a contract with the motorist, set out via the signage at the site.

    Paragraphs 8 and 9 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, state for parking events in England & Wales that the notice must inform the registered keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full.
    It also states that the notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges; or if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver.
    Further Paragraphs 8 and 9 state that the notice must warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days the amount of the unpaid parking charges has not been paid in full, and the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

    As this balance has been passed to us for recovery it appears that the details of the driver were not provided within the necessary timeframes or the driver has denied responsibility. The balance has now surpassed the 28 day period and therefore we have the right to recover the outstanding sum from you as the registered keeper. We are happy however for you to authorise the ‘driver’ to the account allowing them to call and pay but we must advise that if the amount remains outstanding

    The original Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from Civil Enforcement was £140.00, due to the progression of the matter, further recovery costs have been added of £96.00, which falls within the British Parking Association’s recommended guidelines for car park enforcement.

    We are required to comply specifically with Annex B of the Pre Action Protocol and we do so fully. In proceedings we comply with the spirit of Annex A and we conduct litigation in accordance with the overriding objective.

    Our clients have confirmed they have followed the correct process and due to not payment or an appeal within the timeframe specified, this matter progressed to recovery stage and further charges have been incurred.

    We can, therefore, confirm this PCN stands and in order to close the matter in settlement of your liability, the outstanding balance of £236.00 needs to be paid in full. We will place a 14-day hold on this matter to allow you time to make payment in full.

    We look forward to hearing from you in regards to this matter.

    Yours sincerely

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi M1, any thoughts on how best to respond?

    Thanks,

    London Boy

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Instructed by: ZZPS Limited
    There is no way you had a letter of claim from them. ZZps cannot sue. Are you sure it was a letter of claim and not just a debt collection piece of bogroll ?

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi M1,

    This is the letter which I received from Wright Hassall. I then responded by email as per your suggestion below to which they replied via email. Prior to receiving this letter from Wright Hassall I got a fairly dodgy looking PCN with Civil Enforcement hidden down at the bottom in Feb, an outstanding debt notice from Civil Enforcement in April and a letter from ZZPS in May saying the unpaid PCN had been passed to them. Then the letter from Wright Hassall.

    Thanks,

    London Boy
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi M1,

    Actually, the attached is the latest letter from WH which does say it's a 'Formal Letter of Claim'. This is the one I replied to via email and WH then also responded via email as per the above chain.

    Thanks,
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Dear BW Legal,

    Thank you for your reply of xxxxxxx the contents of which are noted.

    I am sure as a firm of solicitors you are more than aware that the civil procedure rules, including the over riding objective, are to enable matters to be boiled down to the nitty gritty to save courts time and expense. This clearly cannot be achieved when 1 party is obstructive. When it comes down to litigation, it really is not acceptable to say i'm not going to show you a document that will be relied on in court because you must have had it long ago. I remind you of the words of LJ Rix in Expandable v Rubin [2008] EWCA Civ 59

    "The general ethos of the CPR is for a more cards on the table approach to litigation. If a party thinks it worthwhile to mention a document in his pleadings, witness statements or affidavits, I do not see why, subject as I say to the question of privilege, the court should put difficulties in the way of inspection. I look upon the mention of a document in pleadings etc as a form of disclosure. The document in question has not been disclosed by list, or at any rate not yet, but it has been disclosed by mention in what, for the purposes of litigation, is another important and formal category of documents. If so, then the party deploying that document by its mention should in principle be prepared to be required to permit its inspection, and the other party should be entitled to its inspection. What in such circumstances is the virtue of coyness?"

    It is therefore very disappointing that you state "This matter is now at recovery stage, and our client has confirmed copies of any previous correspondence or photographic evidence will only be provided before the court should this matter progress.". I cannot see how anyone can think this is anywhere close to compliance with the over riding objective or the pre action protocols.

    I further note that you state that only authorised vehicles with a valid permit were allowed to park. A sign that say you can't park here is not making an offer to contract.

    Your 28 day time limit for POFA is also incorrect. Pofa requires 2 working days for service, a mistake that Civil Enforcement limited always make. Non compliance means no keeper liability.


    The BPA code of practice states the maximum charge is £10 yet you state this PCN was £140.

    I invite you to drop any claim for the above reasons or comply properly with CPR as i have alluded too.

    Yours Sincerely

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

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    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Many thanks M1!

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi M1, they came back to say the following - wonder is that the end of it?

    "Thank you for your recent correspondence. Please be advised the above account has now been returned to our client ZZPS Limited.

    Any future correspondence must be made directly to them going forward.

    We have enclosed their contact details below for your convenience"

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Doubt it. Just that they saw any chance of an easy win sail away in to the sunset and thought "feck this".

    Someone else will be sending love letters soon, i'm sure.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Do these people not give up? !

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Well they have 6 years for the statute of limitations. Many appeared to give up until the supreme court ruling in Beavis rekindled their greed and gave them hope.

    M1
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    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Hi M1,

    Happy New Year! You were right. I've got another love letter from these beautiful people. Well this time it's from the Country Court. They're claiming £330.86 now after adding on the court fee and legal representative's costs. The 'Particular of Claim' details the amount, interest , etc and goes on to say that 'I will provide the defendant with separate detailed particulars withing 14 days after service of the claim form'. Thoughts for next step? I've 14 days to respond.

    Thanks,
    London Boy

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Wait until you get the particulars of claim turn up or the 14 days runs out.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    thanks M1. I thought it was critical to respond to the Claim within 14 days?

    Londdon Boy

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    The 14 days to acknowledge the claim starts from when you receive the particulars. However the courts might put through a default in error if the claimant asks for it after the 14 days (as they do not read the claims before issue) so maybe give the court a call and ask them to note on the file that you are awaiting particulars. If you don't get the particulars before 14 days you can inform the court of that.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    At this stage I am tempted to pay as it's time and hassle. I know this is exactly what they want me to do though...

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    It is, and it is understandable, see what M1 thinks of your case, but I'd give it at least the 14 days to see if any Particulars show up before making a decision.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    ****If you upload documents to your thread, please ensure you have redacted any personal data FIRST***

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors and Legal Services Providers offering fixed fees on our sister site - LBcompare.co.uk

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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...l/rules/part09



    (2) Where the defendant receives a claim form which states that particulars of claim are to follow, he need not respond to the claim until the particulars of claim have been served on him.



    If you want to pay, pay. I would negotiate a much smaller sum first though. It will cost them quite a bit to proceed to a full hearing so even £40/50 now is more profitable.

    The instances of people losing and paying more are rare (usually those that don't turn up at court). Losing and paying less not as rare and quite a few are winning too. It's your call though.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Default Re: Wright Hassall : Formal Letter of Claim

    Thanks M1. Do you think I'd have much of a chance of winning based on the details I've provided? Of course, I'd rather not pay anything to these people. My only real concern is if something was to go wrong and I got a CCJ. That would be terrible for me in my position.

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