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  1. #1
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Hi,

    I have attached a letter that I have received from BW Legal. I have had numerous letters previous to this one but they are now threatening county court proceedings and a CCJ.

    Any advice would be welcomed.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails final notice bw legal.jpg  
    Last edited by todd89; 16th June 2016 at 12:44:PM.

  2. #2
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Contact poundland and see if they'll help.


    I would reply something like

    Dear BW Legal,

    I write in response to your final notice which i take to be a letter before action dated 10th June 2016, the contents of which are noted.

    As the pre action protocols expect us to exchange sufficient information to understand each others position please forward to myself the original parking charge notice and a picture of the signs at the location as well as the operators contract which allows them to operate at the site (or indeed confirmation they own the land in question).

    As well as the information already requested please answer the following questions :-

    What type of car park is it ?

    What contravention gives a cause of action ?

    Who contravened your rules ?

    Who you are pursuing ?

    Have you followed the rules laid down in the Protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 ?

    How is the £154 made up ?

    Not only will this information help comply with the pre action protocols it will also help achieve the over riding objective.

    Having done some research on your claims i request that if you ignore my requests for information that your claim complies with

    CPR 16

    Contents of the claim form
    16.2
    (1) The claim form must –
    (a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim

    Contents of the particulars of claim
    16.4
    (1) Particulars of claim must include –
    (a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;

    Practice direction 16

    Other matters to be included in particulars of claim




    7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.


    Practice direction 22

    Who may sign the statement of truth
    3.1 In a statement of case, a response or an application notice, the statement of truth must be signed by

    (2) the legal representative of the party or litigation friend.

    3.7 Where a party is legally represented, the legal representative may sign the statement of truth on his behalf. The statement signed by the legal representative will refer to the client’s belief, not his own. In signing he must state the capacity in which he signs and the name of his firm where appropriate.

    3.9 The individual who signs a statement of truth must print his full name clearly beneath his signature.

    3.10 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.


    Practice direction 7E

    Signature
    10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.



    I await your response.

    Yours sincerely



    Send via email if possible.

    M1
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    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

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  3. #3
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Thank you very much. So I can contact poundland as well sending this letter?

  4. #4
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Absolutely.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  5. #5
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Thank you.

    Any words of advice as to what to say to Poundland?

    Thanks

  6. #6
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Speak to the manager. Be polite and point out that one of their customers is being threatened with court action and ask if there is any chance they could help.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  7. #7
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Thank you. Just found out that the land is owned by a company in Norwich. I've been on the phone to them and they will see if they can help. I've also emailed BW Legal with your template. I'll let you know when I hear something. Thank you so much for the assistance thus far!

  8. #8
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Hi M1,

    Still no response but just to make you aware that I am not prepared to go to court over this so if you think it is wise for me to just pay the charge and be done with it then I would rather do just that. I have no specialist experience or knowledge in this field and would not know how to defend myself.

  9. #9
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    That is, of course, up to you. If you do, at least try to negotiate, you might get less than £100 if you are good at it.

    What i would say, is that the chance of losing more than is claimed is very small indeed. BW Legal, in terms of parking, are a bit unknown in how they deal with court claims. Some other companies go through the motions but fail to turn up at court or discontinue beforehand. Only Parking Eye are pretty much guaranteed to reach a judges decision.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  10. #10
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Seriously though, what defence do I actually have. I have surely broken the law by parking illegally.

  11. #11
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    I have no idea what defence you have, yet, as i don't know enough details like what type of car park, what offer the signs make, whether there is ample sufficient signage etc. The charges have been inflated artificially to, by the look of it.

    I know one thing for sure, it's not illegal as any claim would be in contract or trespass and a civil claim and you haven't broken the law.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  12. #12
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Please explain the second paragraph. This is where I fall down as I lack knowledge. This is why I feel that in court I would be beaten.

  13. #13
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    If you do something illegal, the polis do you, not some random cowboy.

    This process is the same (or similar) as if you fell out with your neighbour about a hedge, or sued a hotel because they lost your jacket, divorces that kind of thing. Nothing criminal, no jail or anything. It's all about the money and who owes who what.

    You buy a high end kitchen and they supply cheap crap. In court you show your receipt and give evidence about the conversation with the salesman and the quality goods agreed. The judge believes you and you win some dosh. He doesn't you go home and kick the cat. Same thing, different jacket.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  14. #14
    marmitex1234's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Todd89
    Have you had any other letters as it is now the 24th, they gave you till the 20th
    I have the exact same letter from these cowboys -- my advice dont pay
    Marmite

  15. #15
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Quote Originally Posted by marmitex1234 View Post
    Todd89
    Have you had any other letters as it is now the 24th, they gave you till the 20th
    I have the exact same letter from these cowboys -- my advice dont pay
    Marmite
    Yes I have just received a letter dated July 4.

    They have placed the matter on hold, and our client (VCS) will provide a reply in due course. Any thoughts?

  16. #16
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    That's what happens when the pressure doesn't get to you and you don't pay. Sure they may crank the pressure up with a claim but sometimes if you don't look like a soft touch they just decide that there are easier prey for them and you get left alone.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  17. #17
    marmitex1234's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    todd89
    Lets hope VCS drop it, I wrote a 2 page letter telling them (BW Legal) they were lower than a badgers badger.
    Keep us informed
    ta
    Marmite

  18. #18
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Thank you both of you.

    I shall indeed keep you informed and ask what the next step is should they continue to "crank" the pressure up.

    Todd

  19. #19
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Hi guys,

    It has been a long time since my last post, however, they are back on me again!

    I now have a letter to contact them within 7 working days to discuss the matter as well an attachment of all the correspondence and some photo evidence of my contravention.

    Please advise as I am working abroad which probably complicates matters further as I will have trouble contacting them.

    Please see attachments.

    Hope you guys can help!
    Attachments Pending Approval Attachments Pending Approval

  20. #20
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Dear Bw Legal,

    Thank you for your letter of 14th November 2016 the contents of which are noted.

    As you will no doubt be aware, parking companies and their solicitors, including yourselves, have recently lost a number of court cases in similar scenarios.

    1. PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], residents were parking on access roads. The signage forbade parking and so no contract was in place.

    2. UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016] it was also found the signage was forbidding and so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.

    3. Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] it was also found the signage was forbidding and so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.

    4. Excel Parking v Mr TS C8DP67P5 Elliott v Loake is irrelevant in a civil case with no proof and no "assumption" is permitted.

    5. Excel v Mr L. 17/11/2016 Skipton "The judge dismissed the claim, summing it up as follows, saying it boiled down to two things.1. Either the claimant could PROVE the defendant was the driver... which they obviously couldn't.
    Or
    2. They could comply with PoFA to pursue the defendant as the keeper... which it was proved they did not."

    6. Excel v Mr C C8DP37F1 Stockport 31/10/2016 Elliott v Loake is not persuasive and can be distinguished, the claim was dismissed.


    Amongst others.

    In this case you claim that the area is "permit only" and thus there can be no contract. You also want to utilise Elliott v Loake which has been debunked several times already.

    Your "case" is hopeless.

    Yours Sincerely



    Some of these cases are available http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html the rest are mentioned on his blog http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

    You could appeal to IAS if it lets you. It's strange that it's on offer so late in the day. If you do use the above info but appeal as the REGISTERED KEEPER and don't expect to win. If you do, bonus.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  21. #21
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Sorry I am confused about the offer being so late in the day comment and the appeal information.

    Who will let me appeal to IAS? Should it don't expect to win if I appeal as the registered keeper?

    I will send this letter and see what their response is.

  22. #22
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Sorry I am confused about the offer being so late in the day comment and the appeal information.
    Page 3 #2 says you can appeal to IAS. That option is usually only offered upon failure of an initial appeal (which must be within 28 days of the ticket).

    Who will let me appeal to IAS?
    VCS.

    The IAS is not known for a fair appeals process. I believe the stated aims are 20% success rate only. How can a fair appeals system have a limit ?

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  23. #23
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Hi Guys,

    Got another letter from these people again... it is the exact same 'final notice' letter that I received in June! What should I do?

    They did not reply to the email I sent using the template letter you provided me M1.


    Please advise.
    Attachments Pending Approval Attachments Pending Approval

  24. #24
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Dear BW Legal,

    Thanks for your letter of xxxxx the contents of which are noted. The contents are identical to your letter of xxxxx to which i replied on xxxx and still await a reply. For conieniance i repeat my requests for information.

    ....... (copy and paste the previous reply here)




    Yours Sincerely

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  25. #25
    todd89's Avatar

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    Default Re: BW Legal Final Notice letter advice

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    Dear BW Legal,

    Thanks for your letter of xxxxx the contents of which are noted. The contents are identical to your letter of xxxxx to which i replied on xxxx and still await a reply. For conieniance i repeat my requests for information.

    ....... (copy and paste the previous reply here)




    Yours Sincerely

    M1
    Copy and paste the email response I sent?

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