Creditor admits no agreement

[Spellkaster]

I need some advice please.

I originally had debt with Shop Direct which was a Littlewoods catalogue opened up in 19999.

They sold the debt onto TDX Group back in December 2012.

I have been in contact with TDX Group recently asking for information on the debt.

All they have provided is some basic statement of account.

They have said that Shop Direct cannot locate an original agreement.

Plus, TDX Group have said the debt has now been sold back to Shop Direct back in September, yet I've heard nothing from Shop Direct.

So my question is, there is no signed valid credit agreement agreement and only a basic statement of account.

Is the debt valid!?

[charitynjw]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

I need some advice please.

I originally had debt with Shop Direct which was a Littlewoods catalogue opened up in 19999.

They sold the debt onto TDX Group back in December 2012.

I have been in contact with TDX Group recently asking for information on the debt.

All they have provided is some basic statement of account.

They have said that Shop Direct cannot locate an original agreement.

Plus, TDX Group have said the debt has now been sold back to Shop Direct back in September, yet I've heard nothing from Shop Direct.

So my question is, there is no signed valid credit agreement agreement and only a basic statement of account.

Is the debt valid!?

AfaIk, an assignment, particularly a simple chose which has been sold for value, cannot be 're-assigned' to the assignor; once sold & the obligor has been informed in writing (a necessity for legal assignment), it is irrevocable.

[Brainmelt]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Hi Charity

This is an interesting point that you have made, and makes me wonder what has happened in my case.

my debt with a bank was sold to a dca whilst the bank was aware of my mental health issues. when i complained to the bank (once the dca made contact with me) the bank advised me that they brought the debt back.

just wondering then if they really brought the debt back or just paid the dca the cost that they had paid for it?

[charitynjw]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Hi Brainmelt

The 'rules' governing assignment, novation etc are very complicated, having been established via common law & legislation over a very long period of time.

This is made more complicated by the fact that some legislation impinges on others (ie the LoPA 1925 is affected by the Consumer Credit Act 1974), & to some degree by the terms/conditions of the contract.

Therefore there isn't a 'one size fits all' answer; each case will turn on it's own unique facts.

[nemesis45]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Hi Charity

This is an interesting point that you have made, and makes me wonder what has happened in my case.

my debt with a bank was sold to a dca whilst the bank was aware of my mental health issues. when i complained to the bank (once the dca made contact with me) the bank advised me that they brought the debt back.

just wondering then if they really brought the debt back or just paid the dca the cost that they had paid for it?

That information would be seen as commercially sensitive.

I do know however that some creditors have/had agreements with debt purchasers to " take back" some problem debts if a dispute arose after the sale of a debt.

nem

[Spellkaster]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Without a signed agreement is the debt enforceable please!?

[charitynjw]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Without a signed agreement is the debt enforceable please!?

Imho, trying to use this as a technicality will be blown out of the water via Carey v HSBC (2009).
(Although that was concerning s78 requests, the same or similar argument applies.)

What makes you think a signed copy doesn't exist?
Have you SAR'd the original creditor?

[nemesis45]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Without a signed agreement is the debt enforceable please!?

The possibility exists that a " reconstituted" agreement could be produced, but there is an even greater possibility that a recon may not be compliant.

Charity makes a good point re a SAR.

[Spellkaster]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

I have sent letters to TDX Group asking for various documentation to prove the debt exists.

They failed to provide terms and conditions, said quite clearly Shop Direct notified them there is no agreement and only produced a basic statement of account.

[nemesis45]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

I have sent letters to TDX Group asking for various documentation to prove the debt exists.

They failed to provide terms and conditions, said quite clearly Shop Direct notified them there is no agreement and only produced a basic statement of account.

It looks to me that this is going nowhere Spellkaster!

nem

[Spellkaster]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

AfaIk, an assignment, particularly a simple chose which has been sold for value, cannot be 're-assigned' to the assignor; once sold & the obligor has been informed in writing (a necessity for legal assignment), it is irrevocable.

What does that mean then!?

[nemesis45]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

What does that mean then!?

It mean once the debt has been sold the seller cannot buy it back.

nem

[Spellkaster]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

It mean once the debt has been sold the seller cannot buy it back.

nem

That's what the letter says from TDX that they have sold the debt back to the OC.

[nemesis45]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

That's what the letter says from TDX that they have sold the debt back to the OC.

Ok,

Given that there is no agreement now ( one would have existed for the account to be opened) the debt is unenforceable via the courts.

A creditor can attempt to produce a " reconstituted " agree that satisfies a CCA request.

However the underlying debt remains viable and collectable by any means other than litigation.

nem

[Spellkaster]

Re: Creditor admits no agreement

Ok,

Given that there is no agreement now ( one would have existed for the account to be opened) the debt is unenforceable via the courts.

A creditor can attempt to produce a " reconstituted " agree that satisfies a CCA request.

However the underlying debt remains viable and collectable by any means other than litigation.

nem

Thanks.

Is it worth asking if they can write the debt off as they admit there is no agreement!?

Its for £280.