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Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

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  • Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

    Hello and thanks for reading.

    I bought a secondhand Ford KA on 11th March 2016 from an independent dealer for £800 cash with a 12 month MoT. At the time of purchase, nothing was mentioned about any faults and I was given a one month warranty by the dealer which, according to the invoice I was given (which I didn't read or sign my name to, I was just handed it), excludes batteries, exhausts, clutches, bulbs, tyres, brake shoes, pads and discs, burst pipes, damaged keys, radiators, timing belt and fan belt.

    A couple of days of driving the car and I noticed that the remote locking doesn't work via the key, the central locking doesn't work as the passenger door just doesn't respond to it and won't unlock via either the central locking or by actually putting the key in the lock itself - it's effectively only openable from inside the vehicle, the rear demister doesn't work and the passenger side window can't be closed using the driver's side control.

    My husband notified the dealer of these faults by telephone within the one month warranty period. He was told they wouldn't be fixing 'anything to do with the key' but to bring the car in and they'd 'have a look at it'.

    We duly did this on 18th April - he couldn't fit it in before then - and picked it up again on 19th April. At this point, the rear demister had been fixed and I was told the other problems were rectified. This was not the case.

    I telephoned again to say as much and was told to bring the car in again for them to 'have a look at it'. I did this on 25th April and picked it up again on 26th April. I was told the central locking was fixed and there 'was a problem with the window'. I knew this, that's one of the reasons why the car was in the garage. As it turned out, nothing had been done.

    I telephoned yet again and was told to bring the car in yet again - after much shouting on the telephone from the proprietor - which I did on 9th May. The car's still with them now. I told them on 10th May, when it was originally due to be back with me, that I needed it for this weekend as I was going away. Proprietor said it would be ready by the end of the week.

    After four telephone calls yesterday, I find out that the car may or may not be ready by 3pm today. 'If I want', I can go and pick it up, use it for the weekend and then drop it back to them for repair (yeah, right).

    I am so sick and tired of being dicked around by this guy. I'm being pinged financially for taxis every time I go to pick the car up, I'm losing out on work because of the time I'm having to waste chasing this issue (I'm self employed and work from home) and he's had the car for nearly 2 weeks of the 8 I've had it and only the rear demister has been fixed.

    My questions are:
    1. Is the remote locking fault covered under the Consumer Rights Act, even though it's excluded under his warranty? It wasn't mentioned to me at the time of purchase;
    2. Have I been patient enough in giving him now three opportunities to fix the issues and can I move on to other courses of action?;
    3. I think I am but would like it confirmed - am I now out of time to reject the car and ask for a refund? I don't think I'd get it - this guy's a complete pig - but the threat may just be enough for him to at least get his finger out and do the actual repairs;
    4. While I realise the faults aren't the most major of problems, do they still make the vehicle unfit for purpose because of safety and security issues? (i.e. not being able to open/close/lock doors and windows properly);
    5. I'm due to pick the car up again this afternoon. If it's not been repaired, can I issue him a 'Letter before action' type of thing (the substance of which I've posted below), to gee things up?

    Proposed letter:

    Dear Sir,

    Complaint about Ford KA
    Registration no. XXXXXX

    I bought a Ford KA from you on 11 March 2016, for which I paid £800 in cash. During the one month warranty period provided by you, I found that the vehicle had the following faults:

    The key you handed me after I paid you is broken;
    The remote and central locking doesn't work;
    The passenger door doesn’t unlock either via the central locking or via the key being inserted in the lock and therefore the door cannot be opened from the outside of the vehicle;
    The driver’s side control to close the passenger window doesn’t work.

    You failed to mention all these faults at the time of purchase. When my husband telephoned you within the warranty period to ask that these faults be rectified, you told him that you ‘would not be fixing anything to do with the key’. This is not according to the law; under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, goods must be free of faults, or a seller must inform a buyer of any faults at the time of purchase. You did not inform me that the key was not in working order at the time of purchase.
    I therefore demand this these faults are all fixed without any further prevarication on your part, as you have had the vehicle for a total of nine working days since the date of purchase and have failed to rectify any of the faults pointed out to you (in writing, twice) except for the rear-demister (which also wasn’t working at the time of purchase and which wasn’t pointed out to me).

    If you do not repair the faults as described above by Friday 13th May, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 I am entitled to a full refund, given that the faults were not notified to me at the time of purchase, were notified to you within the warranty period and you have not fixed them. I would also seek to reclaim £200 in costs from you, due to having to pay for taxi fares for picking the car up from you time and again after it had been ‘repaired’ (when it hadn’t been), and to cover the costs of cancelling the vehicle insurance, plus my wasted time in dropping off and collecting the car when, in fact, you had done nothing to it.

    I have enclosed a copy of the receipt in support of my claim.

    I await hearing from you in writing within 14 days of receiving this letter (I will not accept harassing telephone calls from you, as previously), otherwise legal proceedings will be started against Triple Crown Garage without further reference to yourself.

    Yours sincerely

    Me

    Now, I don't think I have any right to claim £200 under the CRA 2015, that would have to be included in a small claims case, but can I at least tell him that that's what I would be seeking in this letter? And if he hasn't done the repairs this afternoon, can I hand him this letter when I pick the car up, or is that too short notice?

    Many thanks for reading and for any replies.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

    Hi and welcome.

    Realise this response is a bit later than you were hoping, but to post at 11.00 am and hope for an immediate response..........................

    However you have obviously done your home work.
    The only parts I would not have mentioned are the references to the warranty, which is supposed to give you extra rights beyond your statutory rights.
    I note their website says "3 months warranty on all cars"!

    I note the garage was formerly a limited company, but was dissolved in June 2015 (compulsorily struck off) so be careful if you initiate court action that you name the correct person(s).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

      Sorry to sound negative about this but having met many 'independent' car dealers, their worst fear is that cheap cars sold cheaply will cause them grief that will set them back financially up and above their profit margin. These guys seldom set up a contingency fund and work on the basis that people do not have problems on delivery.

      I would never expect a car sold cheaply at £800 to be defect free but I would expect it to be fit for purpose and to give me some service before it became unfit, so to speak. If an £800 gave me a years service, I would expect no more.

      From what you describe, I would push for one option only and that is you return the car and have a full refund. It sounds like this guy's mechanical facilities are minimal ( possibly another guy under an archway of dubious skills ) and you will probably never get full satisfaction on these minor issues, extremely annoying though they may be. If I were you, I would simply push for the return of the car and a full refund and I would not expect anything for my time and trouble, it's simply not that type of establishment.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

        Thanks to both for your responses.

        Des8, I didn't post and expect an immediate response, I wouldn't be so presumptuous; I was just interested to see if anyone could help me who happened to be around, and it was just before 10am my time that I posted - a few minutes after I discovered this forum - so not that late really.

        The dealer specifically said one month warranty on this car because of its age, hence why it doesn't come under their 'All cars with 3 month warranty' claim. He has a fair few cars on his lot but, yeah, I've had a look at the Companies House entries for him (I was trying to find his surname when all I had was the garage name), and noticed that he dissolved a company of pretty much the same name last year.

        And Snoopy1948, I'm absolutely sure he's one of those dealer you talk about, but then I'm his worst nightmare - the customer who won't go away because she knows (thinks, hopes!) what she's entitled to under her consumer rights.

        I certainly didn't expect it to be a perfect car, but I thought at least the basics of something like door locks would work.

        There's a bit of an update to the whole saga in that I finally got the car back last thing Friday evening with, apparently, the central locking fixed. I tried it once, it worked. It didn't work again after that and still doesn't. The window control hadn't been fixed at all.

        For anyone out there today, I would be really grateful if you could confirm whether the faults make the vehicle unfit for purpose because of safety and security issues (i.e. not being able to open/close/lock doors and windows properly) as I think I'm out of time under the CRA 2015.

        Thanks for your time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

          CRA 2015 gives the 30 days for a right to reject and a full refund. It also "stops the clock" while the item is out of your possession being repaired. (To stop purposely delaying that take you out of time). Even then up to 6 months they have to prove it wasn't faulty. Also after 30 days allows for 1 attempt to repair and then gives right to reject for refund. (That's my interpretation)
          http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ntents/enacted

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

            As Snoopy says; reject.

            Under CRA you have the right to reject up to 6 months after delivery.
            In the first thirty days you can reject outright if the vehicle is not satisfactory.
            After that time the dealer has the right to attempt one repair. If that repair is not satisfactory your right to reject is reinstated.

            You have written, rejecting the vehicle as not satisfactory, and threatened court.
            In essence a letter before action.
            If you didn't hand him the letter detailed in your first post, send it (suitably amended) recorded now, giving him 14 days in which to respond.
            If you did send it, initiate court action.

            I would not be happy with an unlockable car (it might void certain parts of your car insurance.. theft) and IMO is not fit for purpose.


            Note that the dealer has a right to deduct for the wear & tear whilst car was with you (but he might not know this!)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

              Thanks for the responses. I'll send the amended 'Letter before Action' by recorded delivery today and see what happens. I'm going to need people's help as/when it comes to the whole Small Claims Court thing, though, as I haven't done it before and am nervous of cocking it all up. In fact, I'm incredibly nervous of this whole situation as the dealer's a bully and, while I'm not an unconfident person, I am seriously worried when I see this guy. He's big, he's taller than I am, he shouts over me all the time and never lets me finish a sentence - I think that's what half the problem has been, that he simply hasn't listened to what I've said. But besides that, he still hasn't fixed what he says he has so it's time to put my big girl pants on and let him know what he's dealing with (*tremble*).

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                Small claims court is not terrifying. The judge is usually helpful to you if you are against a trader. But you do need to keep to the schedule dictated by the courts.
                Sit down and write up a "diary" of events. This will become your witness statement. Have you got a receipt from him? If he is a private individual (and it's looking that way) you will be claiming against his name trading as rubbish cars. You do need to get this right.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                  Thanks for the advice Ostell. I'll certainly keep a note of everything that has happened, when it happened etc. I've got a sales invoice from him and, yes, he's a private individual so I'm guessing it would be Mr X trading as XXX Garages when the time comes to issue documents. Would that be right?

                  I sent the amended Letter before Action by recorded delivery yesterday, so that should plop on his doorstep this morning and hopefully make him choke on his coffee. My guess is, though, that he'll either ignore it completely or I'll get harrassed in some way, because he's done that on the phone before and he's that type. I've explained in my letter that I will only accept correspondence in writing, but it does bother me a bit that he has my address details etc. Oh well, what will be will be, i'll just have to see what happens in the next two weeks.

                  If I don't hear anything from him, do I just go ahead and issue Small Claims Court proceedings on the 15th day?

                  Thanks again for the reply.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                    Yes go ahead when you haven't heard anything. In the meantime, if you haven't done so, start the registration process for MCOL. Pick the "register as an individual" from this web page.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                      Ok, will do - and when I have to fill his details in, do I choose that he's an organisation, trading as XX Garages? I know I don't have to submit this yet, but I also know this part is important and can scupper a claim if it's wrong. Plus I'm a worrier and like to have things organised well ahead of time!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                        He is an Individual trading as XXXXXXXXXX garages

                        Read the guide here:http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...tart-guide.pdf

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                          Thanks des8, I've bookmarked that.

                          Have just had a visit from one of his lackeys, who just turned up at our front door to 'fix the window switch'. No arrangements had been made with me to do this today (or any other day, for that matter), and I specifically said I would only accept written correspondence in my letter before action (which was delivered & signed for yesterday). The guy was fine and went away after I explained the situation, but should I be making a note of this kind of thing?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                            Make a note of EVERYTHING. It may go into yotu witness statement.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Yet another faulty secondhand car thread :\

                              Hello again

                              As I thought, the 14 days have passed and I've had no response from the trader. I'm filling in my MCOL form and wanted to check with folks if they think this is ok for my particulars of claim. Space is so limited and it's difficult to know what I can leave out without doing myself any harm - such as the unannounced visit from the employee on 18th May. Anyway, here's what I've put so far and I'd be really grateful for any advice:

                              Ford Ka vehicle reg no. CE55 UDY purchased on 11/3/2016 for £800 cash from the defendant. I am rejecting this vehicle under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, as I was not told at the
                              point of purchase of its many faults i.e. the remote and central locking don't work, the passenger door doesn’t unlock via the key or the central locking, the key for remote locking is broken and the driver’s side control to close the passenger window doesn’t work. The defendant has failed on 3 occasions over the course of 5 weeks, namely 18th-19th April 2016, 25th-26th April 2016 and 9th May-13th May 2016, to rectify these issues. Letter before action sent to defendant by recorded delivery, signed for on 17th May 2016. No response received.
                              Cost of cancellation of motor insurance £ (TBC)
                              Cost of taxi fares to pick up car on two
                              occasions £20
                              Costs relating to loss of earnings £45 (3
                              hours @ £15 p/h).

                              Any feedback would be appreciated. Many thanks for reading.

                              Comment

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