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Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

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  • Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

    Hi, I will keep this as brief as poss to begin with and not mention the name of the organisation I filed against in the forum for reasons of privacy. I filed a MCOL summons against a well known online bookmaker who ran, and continue to run as is still advertised on their site, a promotion which is fraud. Despite numerous pre-action emails and phone calls they refused to honour the advertised promotion and instead emailed me a completely different set of T&C's after the events had completed which made the advertised promotion physically impossible to operate, and thereby fraud. I placed bets that I would not have done had I known they were to be settled by a different set of T&C's to those advertised. I reported the matter to the Gambling Commission and SFO. The sum I issued the summons for took into account the vast amount of time required in order to establish the depth of the fraud, there are a minimum of 8 counts of deception plus 1 of false accounting. My evidence consists of emails, photos, video, etc.

    My main concerns are as follows:

    Firstly MCOL (N'ton CCBC) wrongly (?) permitted the defendant to submit an Acknowldegment Of Service on 19th April by email at 14.42 hours, yet the 16th was the stated deadline, though it being a Saturday I believe they had until 16.30 on the 18th? I filed for judgement at 00.38 on the 19th which I believe I was entitled to. It was rejected even though it clearly preceded defendants email. I emailed the court concerning this, still no reply. Was I correct in that this should not have been rejected?

    Now to the major concern. In the Acknow' the defendant has sought to tweak the name of the company considerably, and the location, to Gibraltar, from the London address issued on the summons. I find it hard to believe they can offer a meaningful defense to this claim and they may not even try, even though the sum is quite considerable, BUT am I correct in assuming that if they are permitted to change the address to Gibraltar that means should I be awarded judgement and they fail to pay, it would present a major problem enforcing it? For peace of mind I obviously want to retain the London address.

    Hopefully there will be someone on here who can help. Note I did not process this matter through IBAS because the only occasion I have used them (eventually successfully) the experience was disgraceful, they are bookmaker biased, and I doubt I would have been able to claim for my time which far outweighs the total sum involved in the deceptions.

    Many thanks
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

    Courts will normally accept acknowledgements that are filed a few days late.

    If the registered address of the defendent is Gibralter then they'd be right to state it as such.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

      The corollary to EXC's statement is that while It is possible to sue a foreign national through UK courts, a County Court Judgement can only be obtained against a UK resident and cannot legally be obtained against a debtor that is living outside of the UK.

      Any action against a Gibraltarian company will be expensive, and even if you win you then have the problem of enforcing the judgement!

      PS nearly all (if not all) online betting organisations are registered overseas, gibraltar being a favourite location.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

        Originally posted by des8 View Post
        While It is possible to sue a foreign national through UK courts, a County Court Judgement can only be obtained against a UK resident and cannot legally be obtained against a debtor that is living outside of the UK.
        Any action against a Gibraltarian company will be expensive, and even if you win you then have the problem of enforcing the judgement! PS nearly all (if not all) online betting organisations are registered overseas, Gibraltar being a favourite location.
        Hi Des8, thanks for reply. That's pretty much what I'd expected. I issued the summons against the bookmaker using their London address as it appears in one of the two licenses they hold with the Gambling Commission, which clearly state it includes "Remote" gambling, that is the term that is used for Internet betting.

        The other license they hold uses their Gibraltar address, this is the one they are hoping to use for further dealings with this case. It also includes "Remote" gambling but as I understand it from you would not permit a CCJ to be obtained based on that address?

        I have sent you the links and more info in a PM which hopefully you can look over. I want to refuse their change of company name and the Gibraltar address, can I do this? Should I email the court and tell them the reasons as above and state why I believe they wish to change the address in order to prevent the CCJ?

        Relevant info on its way to you in PM, thanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

          Originally posted by RandomUsername View Post
          I want to refuse their change of company name and the Gibraltar address, can I do this? Should I email the court and tell them the reasons as above and state why I believe they wish to change the address in order to prevent the CCJ?
          I wouldn't do that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

            Originally posted by RandomUsername View Post
            Hi, I will keep this as brief as poss to begin with and not mention the name of the organisation I filed against in the forum for reasons of privacy. I filed a MCOL summons against a well known online bookmaker who ran, and continue to run as is still advertised on their site, a promotion which is fraud. Despite numerous pre-action emails and phone calls they refused to honour the advertised promotion and instead emailed me a completely different set of T&C's after the events had completed which made the advertised promotion physically impossible to operate, and thereby fraud. I placed bets that I would not have done had I known they were to be settled by a different set of T&C's to those advertised. I reported the matter to the Gambling Commission and SFO. The sum I issued the summons for took into account the vast amount of time required in order to establish the depth of the fraud, there are a minimum of 8 counts of deception plus 1 of false accounting. My evidence consists of emails, photos, video, etc.

            My main concerns are as follows:

            Firstly MCOL (N'ton CCBC) wrongly (?) permitted the defendant to submit an Acknowldegment Of Service on 19th April by email at 14.42 hours, yet the 16th was the stated deadline, though it being a Saturday I believe they had until 16.30 on the 18th? I filed for judgement at 00.38 on the 19th which I believe I was entitled to. It was rejected even though it clearly preceded defendants email. I emailed the court concerning this, still no reply. Was I correct in that this should not have been rejected?

            Now to the major concern. In the Acknow' the defendant has sought to tweak the name of the company considerably, and the location, to Gibraltar, from the London address issued on the summons. I find it hard to believe they can offer a meaningful defense to this claim and they may not even try, even though the sum is quite considerable, BUT am I correct in assuming that if they are permitted to change the address to Gibraltar that means should I be awarded judgement and they fail to pay, it would present a major problem enforcing it? For peace of mind I obviously want to retain the London address.

            Hopefully there will be someone on here who can help. Note I did not process this matter through IBAS because the only occasion I have used them (eventually successfully) the experience was disgraceful, they are bookmaker biased, and I doubt I would have been able to claim for my time which far outweighs the total sum involved in the deceptions.

            Many thanks
            The court would normally expect you to exhaust all available alternatives to litigation.
            CAVEAT LECTOR

            This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
            Cohen, Herb


            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
            gets his brain a-going.
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            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

              Originally posted by RandomUsername View Post
              Hi Des8, thanks for reply. That's pretty much what I'd expected. I issued the summons against the bookmaker using their London address as it appears in one of the two licenses they hold with the Gambling Commission, which clearly state it includes "Remote" gambling, that is the term that is used for Internet betting.

              The other license they hold uses their Gibraltar address, this is the one they are hoping to use for further dealings with this case. It also includes "Remote" gambling but as I understand it from you would not permit a CCJ to be obtained based on that address?

              I have sent you the links and more info in a PM which hopefully you can look over. I want to refuse their change of company name and the Gibraltar address, can I do this? Should I email the court and tell them the reasons as above and state why I believe they wish to change the address in order to prevent the CCJ?

              Relevant info on its way to you in PM, thanks.
              I'm replying here to the PM for the sake of others following this thread.

              The links you gave me clearly state at the bottom of their webpage that the bookmakers are operated by a company registered in Gibraltar.
              The Gambling Commission site shows that the Gibraltar based company is trading as "XYZ online"

              Whilst this is not what you want to read.I do not see you having grounds for challenging the address,

              IMO your only way forward is via IBAS.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                Originally posted by des8 View Post
                I'm replying here to the PM for the sake of others following this thread.

                The links you gave me clearly state at the bottom of their webpage that the bookmakers are operated by a company registered in Gibraltar. The Gambling Commission site shows that the Gibraltar based company is trading as "XYZ online." Whilst this is not what you want to read.I do not see you having grounds for challenging the address.
                Thanks for the reply but if you look on the Gambling Commission website there is clearly a license issued to the company which has a principal UK address that is in London. Did you see this? It also shows a domain name which is the exact same name that I have entered on the summons. The Gambling Commission advised me to use this back in March, and not the Gibraltar address.

                I ask the question, why shouldn't I use the London address?

                Licensees granted a licence to accept gambling from customers in England, are required to conform to various matters in the LCCP (License code and conditions of practice), of which adherence to the relevant areas of the Consumer Protection Act are included. If an address in Gibraltar was used, could those conditions still be applied?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                  There have been a few similar threads on here to my knowledge no one has succeded I getting a payment through a ccj from these companies IMO they operate overseas to stop actions a London address may well be an agency where calls and mail are received and passed on if you obtain a judgement will you get any money from this UK company must be the question

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                    A "principal UK address" is only a branch or place of business of the establishing overseas company.
                    You cannot sue an overseas company in county court.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                      Waste of an application then obvious why they all operate from overseas

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                        Originally posted by des8 View Post
                        A "principal UK address" is only a branch or place of business of the establishing overseas company.
                        You cannot sue an overseas company in county court.
                        Both of their licenses have the only address shown as "Principal Address," one for London, one for Gibraltar

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                          Have you got a Judgement against them? or what is the position of the claim

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                            Originally posted by wales01man View Post
                            Have you got a Judgement against them? or what is the position of the claim
                            They filed an acknowledgement of service dated 19 April on which they entered a different name to that which I filed on the claim form, and in the address to which docs about this claim should be sent box, they entered the Gibraltar address. They have ticked the box to defend all of the claim but I cannot see how it would be possible to do so. It's been signed by someone claiming to be a Trainee Solicitor. The date of service of the claim form is 2nd April. I applied for judgement on the 19th before they filed the AOS, but it was rejected the following day. Thanks

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bookmaker Sued : Var Q's Inc Change Of Location

                              Rejected on what grounds?

                              Comment

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