DWP debt

[sar2004]

Hi all

i currently owe overpaid carers allowance - not my fault at all and as a result no legal action was taken against me. I agreed to enter into an arrangement to pay 15 per month off which I have done for the last couple of years. All fine so far.
i was made redundant in January but thanks to family help I am keeping up with the 15 a month. I am not claiming benefits (never again if I can help it!).
The DWP wrote to me in Jan just before I was made redundant asking for an increase in the monthly amount. I returned a breakdown of finances showing 15 was the maximum but explained I would increase if possible in the future. Obviously that has not been possible so far.

i have received a letter today saying they have written for an attachment of earnings from my employer - funny as I left 2 months ago so my ex employer will write and inform them of that so they are wasting their time.
I am not sure what to do as I've been faithfully paying the 15 each month and it isn't enough. Really worried what they will do next 😞

Does anyone one have any advice as to what I could do and what is likely to happen!

[charitynjw]

Re: DWP debt

Hi all

i currently owe overpaid carers allowance - not my fault at all and as a result no legal action was taken against me. I agreed to enter into an arrangement to pay 15 per month off which I have done for the last couple of years. All fine so far.
i was made redundant in January but thanks to family help I am keeping up with the 15 a month. I am not claiming benefits (never again if I can help it!).
The DWP wrote to me in Jan just before I was made redundant asking for an increase in the monthly amount. I returned a breakdown of finances showing 15 was the maximum but explained I would increase if possible in the future. Obviously that has not been possible so far.

i have received a letter today saying they have written for an attachment of earnings from my employer - funny as I left 2 months ago so my ex employer will write and inform them of that so they are wasting their time.
I am not sure what to do as I've been faithfully paying the 15 each month and it isn't enough. Really worried what they will do next 

Does anyone one have any advice as to what I could do and what is likely to happen!

Hi sar2004

As it says on the can, an AoE can only be used if you're working.

It would be best to contact them so as to show you aren't 'hiding' anything.

Better still if you can do it via CAB.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: DWP debt

I have this impression that all public services are currently relying on less and less funding and more and more inexperienced personnel as a result. In your case this has resulted in writing to a non existent employer for payments out of a non existent income.

I would be interested to know the level of the debt and how the debt arose ( as you say not your fault ). My immediate view is to continue to maintain the £15 monthly payments without fail and that binds your side of the deal at all times. I worked in local authority recovery work for many years and in cases like this, the creditor simply has to be realistic. I cannot see the DWP taking this to a higher level as frankly what would that achieve.

But is this is causing you continued concern, I suggest that you make an appointment to see a general advisor at your local Citizens Advice Bureau and see if they can mediate the matter for you. They should at least prepare a fresh income and expenditure statement for you ( which will be qualified by them as a third party on this occasion ) and this must surely show your payment should be acceptable. But if you can indicate the level of debt outstanding and how it actually arose, I could comment further. :colbert:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

[enaid]

Re: DWP debt

I was going to ask the amount of debt.
I too had this happen to me but instead of working my overpayment on a weekly basis they just decided I was overpaid for 18 month. My fault but it was handled very badly by them and I paid £5 a month off my CA for 8.5 years to pay it off.
As said above I would go to CAB if only to get your I&E form properly done, they can't take blood from a stone, they just think they can.
Good Luck Enaid x

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt

Hi all

i currently owe overpaid carers allowance - not my fault at all and as a result no legal action was taken against me. I agreed to enter into an arrangement to pay 15 per month off which I have done for the last couple of years. All fine so far.
i was made redundant in January but thanks to family help I am keeping up with the 15 a month. I am not claiming benefits (never again if I can help it!).
The DWP wrote to me in Jan just before I was made redundant asking for an increase in the monthly amount. I returned a breakdown of finances showing 15 was the maximum but explained I would increase if possible in the future. Obviously that has not been possible so far.

i have received a letter today saying they have written for an attachment of earnings from my employer - funny as I left 2 months ago so my ex employer will write and inform them of that so they are wasting their time.
I am not sure what to do as I've been faithfully paying the 15 each month and it isn't enough. Really worried what they will do next 

Does anyone one have any advice as to what I could do and what is likely to happen!

Hang on a minute, you said it was not your fault at all. DWP can only recover if it was either your fraud, your misrepresentation (ie, a lie), or failure to disclose a change of circumstance: section 71, Social Security and Administration Act 1992. What are your circumstances?

[des8]

Re: DWP debt

As per OL:
if the overpayment was in fact caused by an error by the DWP, it is not recoverable.
But the mere occurrence of an official error is not enough to prevent recovery: the overpayment must actually have been caused by it.
MO v HMRC (CHB) [2014] UKUT 199 (AAC) which involved incorrect payment of child benefit.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt

As per OL:
if the overpayment was in fact caused by an error by the DWP, it is not recoverable.
But the mere occurrence of an official error is not enough to prevent recovery: the overpayment must actually have been caused by it.
MO v HMRC (CHB) [2014] UKUT 199 (AAC) which involved incorrect payment of child benefit.

The effect of this case does not change the law for overpayments made in error in that the case dealt with the material factors, including misrepresentation, fraud, failure to disclose, ie points of law for overpayments as per s.71, SSAA 1992. It failed on the evidence not on a point of law, ie the tribunal erred as it has assumed something was fact albeit there was no proof of fact. So your view that mere occurrence of an official error does not prevent recovery is wrong in law.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: DWP debt

Going back to the original sense of this question, the asker is clearly worried that the DWP is demanding more money than payment under the current arrangement, hence the DWP's spurious attempt at an AOE which would invariably produce more. I think this shows desperation within their ranks to meet recovery targets, no doubt from Central Government.

From 23 years work within local government recovery, including housing and council tax support benefits, it was always preached to maximise an arrangement for obvious reasons. After all, everything within my remit involved public money, unlike the credit card companies whom was glad to see demoted to a pound a month. As far as debts arising through 'local authority error', I recall there was always discretion regarding whether they should be recovered or not, although over the years financial pressures meant that everything ended up in the recovery folders.

It seems that this asker has to date been fighting his own corner as to negotiation, hence the suggestion that CAB intervention would be good to assess and mediate the situation. Alas the CAB is fighting its own financial battles as their own funding comes into question. I have spent many hours in CAB meetings listening to such woes which is a shame as they remain an excellent interface for troubled people.

I have asked the level of the original debt and the balance outstanding plus reasons to how the debt arose. It is easy to perceive that the debt has arisen for reasons that 'are not my fault' and that is not a criticism on the asker, just an observation on a complicated system.

[des8]

Re: DWP debt

I was agreeing with you that if the overpayment was caused by DWP error it would not be recoverable.
However the existence of an error by the DWP in itself is not enough to give this protection. It has to be the cause of the overpayment.

Also:

It failed on the evidence not on a point of law, .

????????

Quote from decision of the upper tribunal:
"Conclusion

22. I conclude that the decision of the First-tier Tribunal involves an error of law....... I therefore allow the appeal"

[Snoopy1948]

Re: DWP debt

Funny enough, on the thousands of local authority debts that I recovered, and the thousands of debtors who actually maintained 'it was the council's fault', which incidentally was the standard response, I can recall less proven, in favour of the customer, than fingers I have on one hand. In the case in question, without knowing the full cause and level of the debt, it is hard to comment further. IN this case, although no legal action was mentioned, an AOE order was attempted, which in itself must be a pursuance of legal action.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt

I was agreeing with you that if the overpayment was caused by DWP error it would not be recoverable.
However the existence of an error by the DWP in itself is not enough to give this protection. It has to be the cause of the overpayment.

Also:????????

Quote from decision of the upper tribunal:
"Conclusion

22. I conclude that the decision of the First-tier Tribunal involves an error of law....... I therefore allow the appeal"

Yes HMRC were the respondent and the MO the appellant. The appellant won. So, am saying HMRC failed on the evidence point.

[enaid]

Re: DWP debt

Funny enough, on the thousands of local authority debts that I recovered, and the thousands of debtors who actually maintained 'it was the council's fault', which incidentally was the standard response, I can recall less proven, in favour of the customer, than fingers I have on one hand. In the case in question, without knowing the full cause and level of the debt, it is hard to comment further. IN this case, although no legal action was mentioned, an AOE order was attempted, which in itself must be a pursuance of legal action.

I agree fully although the OP states

i currently owe overpaid carers allowance - not my fault at all and as a result no legal action was taken against me

It can sadly be neglect or ignorance of the rules that lead to these situations, it seems the case is almost proven imo and all that needs deciding is an affordable repayment plan.
Carers Allowance is payable if you care for someone for 35 hours per week or more and they get certain benefits and you yourself do not exceed the earnings limit. If any of these rules are broken CA is not eligible.