Tenancy agreement and water bills

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Although you technically, and very well legally, could reduce your rent to cover for the just enrichment I am not and would not suggest doing this. I am instead implying that the tenant has a word (in a nice way) with the LL and explain why they would like LL to return the water rates money back to them.

A lot of interesting thoughts and thanks for all the replies.

I also posted on mse (tough crowd over there!) and there was a lot of thought that it would be wrong to ask the LL for any money.

If we were a few months in then I think the LL wouldn't quibble and would refund and take on the future payments as it's there in black in white. Just because we're a further down the line does it really change that scenario?

The subject will be politely brought up with LL and we will gauge the reaction.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

A lot of interesting thoughts and thanks for all the replies.

I also posted on mse (tough crowd over there!) and there was a lot of thought that it would be wrong to ask the LL for any money.

If we were a few months in then I think the LL wouldn't quibble and would refund and take on the future payments as it's there in black in white. Just because we're a further down the line does it really change that scenario?

The subject will be politely brought up with LL and we will gauge the reaction.

Yep i think this is best (the latter) as her LL seemed reasonable. Is it worth taking to court or tribunal whichever applies, perhaps as a very last resort only. How much money is it?

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Yep i think this is best (the latter) as her LL seemed reasonable. Is it worth taking to court or tribunal whichever applies, perhaps as a very last resort only. How much money is it?

I'm not sure exactly but will be in the region of £1500 - £1750 over that time. Not an insignificant amount.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

I'm not sure exactly but will be in the region of £1500 - £1750 over that time. Not an insignificant amount.

Softly, softly catchy monkey. The law is on her side if it comes to it but the landlord may try to argue a defence called 'estoppel.' The effect of an estoppel could apply here, as it's been so long without tenant making contact for the amount owed that LL, in their view, should not be expected to pay it (estopped). LL would need to prove detrimental reliance, ie he has either spent or cannot raise that money. In my view, an estoppel should be likely to fail as there was neither no gift offered nor any statement by your girlfriend (tenant) to an equivalent effect. As the amount is not exactly a small amount he will likely defend any claims if any were made, possibly an estoppel. It is simply a large amount of money to hand over, LL may argue, but if he were reasonable may deduct the amount from any rent over paid or add it to the deposit.

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Softly, softly catchy monkey. The law is on her side if it comes to it but the landlord may try to argue a defence called 'estoppel.' The effect of an estoppel could apply here, as it's been so long without tenant making contact for the amount owed that LL, in their view, should not be expected to pay it (estopped). LL would need to prove detrimental reliance, ie he has either spent or cannot raise that money. In my view, an estoppel should be likely to fail as there was neither no gift offered nor any statement by your girlfriend (tenant) to an equivalent effect. As the amount is not exactly a small amount he will likely defend any claims if any were made, possibly an estoppel. It is simply a large amount of money to hand over, LL may argue, but if he were reasonable may deduct the amount from any rent over paid or add it to the deposit.

Thanks, very interesting. As it happens, my gf will be giving her notice to move out in the next couple of months!

[Kati]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Sorry I re-read my reply and I wasn't clear. There was a definitely a new tenancy agreement signed from the date she became the sole occupant, and it is this agreement which states the LL will pay the water charges.

is there any chance you could email a pic of the tenancy agreement (that I can redact/post up) - kati@legalbeagles.info (with a link to this thread)?? It might be worthwhile [MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] looking at the wording while you're still talking to both the LL and the water company

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

is there any chance you could email a pic of the tenancy agreement (that I can redact/post up) - kati@legalbeagles.info (with a link to this thread)?? It might be worthwhile @Crazy council looking at the wording while you're still talking to both the LL and the water company

Well to be fair Kati, I have studied land contract agreements (covenants) as part of a rather complex property law course at qualifying law degree level. I think that qualifies me to at least have an opinion on the wording of covenants. I never can understand why I am never linked in to comment when I have had to analyse on many occasions the most complex of documents throughout my studies, many of which subjects include at qualifying law degree level.

[R0b]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

I wouldn't take it personally, Crazy Council seems to have been around for some time and will no doubt the go to person for any tenancy/council matters. Studying legal stuff is all well and good but advice given on here does not need to be extensive or technical but constructive, and clear for them to understand. From what I've read, it seems like a simple tenancy contractual agreement and the rights of the tenant. Just because you haven't been tagged by someone doesn't mean you cannot contribute your thoughts, which I am sure over time people will notice and probably tag you in future posts.. it's not a right as such but probably earnt with people knowing you giving sound and appropriate advice

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

I wouldn't take it personally, Crazy Council seems to have been around for some time and will no doubt the go to person for any tenancy/council matters. Studying legal stuff is all well and good but advice given on here does not need to be extensive or technical but constructive, and clear for them to understand. From what I've read, it seems like a simple tenancy contractual agreement and the rights of the tenant. Just because you haven't been tagged by someone doesn't mean you cannot contribute your thoughts, which I am sure over time people will notice and probably tag you in future posts.. it's not a right as such but probably earnt with people knowing you giving sound and appropriate advice

Rob, I know. I observe the threads, and based on what I have observed, and given that I know how lawyers think, you're brilliant as are Crazy Council and other Legalbeagles, based on the knowledge and practice you guys have collectively or even individually. I am just saying that I have good research skills and resources to find answers that you guys may not have, that will be based on current law notwithstanding my academic knowledge. I will only comment if i have reason to comment.

[Crazy council]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

hi [MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION]

I was a property manager ( both my own business and working for others ) from 1993 ish, full time till around 2003, this period encompassed all the main changes to TCs and AST conditions. We had to train to be able to deal with the contracts ( only a couple of weeks course, pluss refreshers each year. ( i haven't kept myself that up to date since 2008 ) . During this time, i was a member of a professional body that kept an eye on the lower court decisions around AST terms and management.

This allowed all the agents to get a working understanding of how arguments iether side of the AST terms are likely to play out in court. Although i do not work directly in the field any more ( i still rent property's but its not my full time occupation atm ), i do, however have access to the same body through my friend that still work in the business, and i do take on difficult evictions for LLs. so when am not sure about an answer, i do have a way of checking before i post .

The above just meens that i have dealt with literaly 1000s of tenacys over the years, and because i take on difficult to evict tenancy's for the LLs, i have seen the results of many arguments played out.

My skills are in accounts, numbers and dispute resolution around tenancy's, not law, i make that very clear ( am just an idiot with a keyboard ), and i only answer what am confident on, and [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] tags me in posts just so someone has a go at answering them and they dont go unanswered, because i try to explain things to people properly. I also lean a lot i find usfully myself by , theirs other much more experienced in tenancy laws on here, and that without the site owners,, , and am sure they would jump in if i started giving people wrong info or misdirecting them.

But, i know something you could be very helpfull on [MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION] let me dig it out

There was one poster on here that i wish i could help more because of the fight she has had so far, its very complex to understand and so are the legal implications for the validity of the documentation from the mortgagee co and others involved. I will Pm you a link to the thread,,, possibly, you could be very helpful for her

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

hi @Openlaw15

I was a property manager ( both my own business and working for others ) from 1993 ish, full time till around 2003, this period encompassed all the main changes to TCs and AST conditions. We had to train to be able to deal with the contracts ( only a couple of weeks course, pluss refreshers each year. ( i haven't kept myself that up to date since 2008 ) . During this time, i was a member of a professional body that kept an eye on the lower court decisions around AST terms and management.

This allowed all the agents to get a working understanding of how arguments iether side of the AST terms are likely to play out in court. Although i do not work directly in the field any more ( i still rent property's but its not my full time occupation atm ), i do, however have access to the same body through my friend that still work in the business, and i do take on difficult evictions for LLs. so when am not sure about an answer, i do have a way of checking before i post .

The above just meens that i have dealt with literaly 1000s of tenacys over the years, and because i take on difficult to evict tenancy's for the LLs, i have seen the results of many arguments played out.

My skills are in accounts, numbers and dispute resolution around tenancy's, not law, i make that very clear ( am just an idiot with a keyboard ), and i only answer what am confident on, and @Kati tags me in posts just so someone has a go at answering them and they dont go unanswered, because i try to explain things to people properly. I also lean a lot i find usfully myself by , theirs other much more experienced in tenancy laws on here, and that without the site owners,, , and am sure they would jump in if i started giving people wrong info or misdirecting them.

But, i know something you could be very helpfull on @Openlaw15 let me dig it out

There was one poster on here that i wish i could help more because of the fight she has had so far, its very complex to understand and so are the legal implications for the validity of the documentation from the mortgagee co and others involved. I will Pm you a link to the thread,,, possibly, you could be very helpful for her

Thank you Crazy Council. Your posts imply you were a relevant manager of some sort. Yes, please do, I'll look over the docs/ situation.