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Claimaing Job seekers allownace

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  • Claimaing Job seekers allownace

    Not sure if this is the right forum but its the nearest one I could find for this topic.

    Ive only been signing on a month and all was fine. My advisor was pleasant, I complied with everything they said, Ive been on a job assessment to see what jobs I should be going for, and I am attending an SIA assessment next week to see if I can get on a course to get my SIA Licence.

    Today however, all that changed. I saw a different advisor who seemed to be on a mission. Right from the off he was abrupt and made you feel like you shouldn’t be there. He looked at my jobsearch and first thing he said is there’s been over a hundred jobs since you last signed on and you haven’t applied for any of them, why not? I couldn’t tell him off the top off my head as different jobs would have different reasons why I didn’t apply. I suggested he click on a few jobs so we could see the details and then I could tell him why.

    1st job – was advertised as Sales Assistant. When you got into the details they wanted you to promote and sell their stock using your social media accounts. I said I didn’t apply for that because my social media accounts are my private things and Im not using them to sell stuff to my friends. Im more than happy to use the employers account but that isn’t an option. My adviser told me to set up a new facebook account. I said you can only have one facebook account. He said you can have as many as you like and you can have business accounts so I should set up another account. I said I wasn’t aware you could have more than one account, I will look into it. I asked how can I set up a business account if I am not a business? He said you just can.

    Facebook state only one personal account allowed per person. Can I be penalised for not applying for a job that requires you to use you social media accounts to sell and advertise products to your friends?

    I looked at business accounts but couldn’t make head not tail of them. Do you have to be a business to set up a Facebook business account?


    2nd job – another sales assistant job. This time 8 hours a week on a temporary contract, didn’t state how long the contract was for. I said I didn’t apply for that because its only for 8 hours and temporary, Im looking for at least 16 hours or more and permanent or at least a job where I know how long the contract will be. He said not good enough, you should be applying for it.

    Can I be penalised for not applying for temporary jobs of such little hours?


    The next five jobs we looked at either required you to own a vehicle, which I don’t, or to have certain certificates, which I don’t. As this point I mentioned I was going on an assessment next week to see if I could get on an SIA course. Straight away he said “we don’t pay for your SIA licence, you have to pay for that”. I said when I agreed to got to this assessment I was told the assessors pay 50% of the cost and the job centre pay the other 50% if I get a job within 6 months. He asked if I had any experience of security. I said no. He said you need security experience or you won’t get a job in security. I said my previous assessment highlighted the SIA assessment course which is why I was put on it. He said theres people with SIA Licences and security experience who cant get a job so someone with no security experience wont get a job. I asked what the point of me going on the SIA assessment course was then? He said I don’t know I didn’t put you on it.

    He then asked why I was having difficulty in finding a job. I told him because I was sacked from my last job, and when you tell employers you were sacked they don’t take you on. He said not to tell them. I said what should I tell them when they ask why I left my previous job? He said im not telling you to lie, just don’t tell them you were sacked. I said they would find out anyway once they get a reference from my previous employer. He said no they wont because employers cant give a bad reference. I said they can give a factual reference which means they can say I was sacked, then it looks like I was hiding something and I wont get the job anyway. Then he said most employers don’t even check references. I don’t even know what Im supposed to say now when I get asked about my previous job.

    My next signing on should have been in two weeks time but this new assessor said I want to see you in here next week, gave me a time, and said we will go through your cv. I said my previous assessment said they would look at my cv and send me an appointment date to do it. He said well Im doing it now goodbye.

    Ive a feeling that next week isn’t going to go too well and no matter what I do wont be enough. So im just going to apply for every single job they advertise every single day, whether I can do it or not. Then at least he cant say ive not been applying.

    Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

    Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
    Not sure if this is the right forum but its the nearest one I could find for this topic.
    Hi and to LB xx

    I've moved your thread to the right section of the forum

    Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
    Ive only been signing on a month and all was fine. My advisor was pleasant, I complied with everything they said, Ive been on a job assessment to see what jobs I should be going for, and I am attending an SIA assessment next week to see if I can get on a course to get my SIA Licence.

    Today however, all that changed. I saw a different advisor who seemed to be on a mission. Right from the off he was abrupt and made you feel like you shouldn’t be there. He looked at my jobsearch and first thing he said is there’s been over a hundred jobs since you last signed on and you haven’t applied for any of them, why not? I couldn’t tell him off the top off my head as different jobs would have different reasons why I didn’t apply. I suggested he click on a few jobs so we could see the details and then I could tell him why.
    good idea :nod: the second advisor sounds like a nasty piece of work

    Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
    1st job – was advertised as Sales Assistant. When you got into the details they wanted you to promote and sell their stock using your social media accounts. I said I didn’t apply for that because my social media accounts are my private things and Im not using them to sell stuff to my friends. Im more than happy to use the employers account but that isn’t an option. My adviser told me to set up a new facebook account. I said you can only have one facebook account. He said you can have as many as you like and you can have business accounts so I should set up another account. I said I wasn’t aware you could have more than one account, I will look into it. I asked how can I set up a business account if I am not a business? He said you just can.

    Facebook state only one personal account allowed per person. Can I be penalised for not applying for a job that requires you to use you social media accounts to sell and advertise products to your friends?

    I looked at business accounts but couldn’t make head not tail of them. Do you have to be a business to set up a Facebook business account?
    I very much doubt it ... The DWP cannot force you to set up a new FB account or incite you to commit a 'crime' (ie: falsify your ID to set up a second one)


    Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
    2nd job – another sales assistant job. This time 8 hours a week on a temporary contract, didn’t state how long the contract was for. I said I didn’t apply for that because its only for 8 hours and temporary, Im looking for at least 16 hours or more and permanent or at least a job where I know how long the contract will be. He said not good enough, you should be applying for it.

    Can I be penalised for not applying for temporary jobs of such little hours?
    no!! You cannot be forced to apply for jobs that are not in your 'area of expertise' or that offer less hours/zero hours/commission based pay.
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-562581
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-484972
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-548608



    Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
    The next five jobs we looked at either required you to own a vehicle, which I don’t, or to have certain certificates, which I don’t. As this point I mentioned I was going on an assessment next week to see if I could get on an SIA course. Straight away he said “we don’t pay for your SIA licence, you have to pay for that”. I said when I agreed to got to this assessment I was told the assessors pay 50% of the cost and the job centre pay the other 50% if I get a job within 6 months. He asked if I had any experience of security. I said no. He said you need security experience or you won’t get a job in security. I said my previous assessment highlighted the SIA assessment course which is why I was put on it. He said theres people with SIA Licences and security experience who cant get a job so someone with no security experience wont get a job. I asked what the point of me going on the SIA assessment course was then? He said I don’t know I didn’t put you on it.
    You might be eligible for help via the Flexible Support Fund - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wo...yment-schemes/
    Flexible Support Fund

    If you are a customer of Jobcentre Plus, you may be able to get a payment from the Flexible Support Fund to cover any expenses you run up while taking up work or training. However, it's up to your local Jobcentre Plus to decide whether it will meet these costs.

    To find out what help you're likely to get, ask your Jobcentre Plus personal adviser.
    Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
    My next signing on should have been in two weeks time but this new assessor said I want to see you in here next week, gave me a time, and said we will go through your cv. I said my previous assessment said they would look at my cv and send me an appointment date to do it. He said well Im doing it now goodbye.

    Ive a feeling that next week isn’t going to go too well and no matter what I do wont be enough. So im just going to apply for every single job they advertise every single day, whether I can do it or not. Then at least he cant say ive not been applying.

    Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated
    It might not be a good idea to apply for everything (you might find yourself being accused of deliberately going against your JsAg/CC in an attempt to NOT get work :sad:

    can I ask ... what is written down on your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment??
    Were you told you had to sign up for Universal Jobsmatch??
    Were you made to give the DWP access??
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

    Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

      Thanks for the quick reply and for moving the post to right place. I didn't even notice this section cause im so stressed after coming away from the job centre.


      can I ask ... what is written down on your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment??

      * I will log into my Universal Jobmatch account to find and apply for jobs I can do - daily
      * Use jobsites and employer websites to find and apply for jobs I can do - daily
      * Respond promptly to contacts and notifications from employers and jobsites - daily

      I do all of that which was acceptable for the previous advisor and she had no issues with anything. The only thing is, I don't apply for every single job I can do for various reasons as explained in original post. No point applying for a job if you don't have transport or certain certificates and the job requires these things, even if you can do the job. I do apply for every job I feel I have a good chance of getting, but the stumbling block is always the fact I was sacked.


      Were you told you had to sign up for Universal Jobsmatch??

      I was already signed up and let them know.


      Were you made to give the DWP access??

      Yes. they said they needed access to check my jobsearch.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

        Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
        Thanks for the quick reply and for moving the post to right place. I didn't even notice this section cause im so stressed after coming away from the job centre.
        no problem at all :yo: xx


        Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
        can I ask ... what is written down on your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment??

        * I will log into my Universal Jobmatch account to find and apply for jobs I can do - daily
        * Use jobsites and employer websites to find and apply for jobs I can do - daily
        * Respond promptly to contacts and notifications from employers and jobsites - daily

        I do all of that which was acceptable for the previous advisor and she had no issues with anything. The only thing is, I don't apply for every single job I can do for various reasons as explained in original post. No point applying for a job if you don't have transport or certain certificates and the job requires these things, even if you can do the job. I do apply for every job I feel I have a good chance of getting, but the stumbling block is always the fact I was sacked.
        that (^^^) is all you should do!! There are ways of altering your JsAg/CC if you feel they are being too hard on you, and also complaints that can be made to the jobcentre+ you are signing at about your advisor :nod:

        As I said ... you cannot be forced to apply for unsuitable jobs, or to lie in an application.


        Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
        Were you told you had to sign up for Universal Jobsmatch??

        I was already signed up and let them know.


        Were you made to give the DWP access??

        Yes. they said they needed access to check my jobsearch.
        first things first here ... you do NOT need to allow the jobcentre access to your UJM account. I (personally) would suggest you revoked it (log in to your account and un-tick the box allowing them access), but that would be your decision :nod:
        https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-408180
        https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...#comment-57092

        you actually do not legally have to use UJM (there are sites on the net that are better IMO )
        http://unemploymentmovement.com/foru...elp.html#15143
        http://unemploymentmovement.com/foru...-of-claim.html
        Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

        It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

        recte agens confido

        ~~~~~

        Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
        But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

        Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

          Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
          Thanks for the quick reply and for moving the post to right place. I didn't even notice this section cause im so stressed after coming away from the job centre.


          can I ask ... what is written down on your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment??

          * I will log into my Universal Jobmatch account to find and apply for jobs I can do - daily
          * Use jobsites and employer websites to find and apply for jobs I can do - daily
          * Respond promptly to contacts and notifications from employers and jobsites - daily

          I do all of that which was acceptable for the previous advisor and she had no issues with anything. The only thing is, I don't apply for every single job I can do for various reasons as explained in original post. No point applying for a job if you don't have transport or certain certificates and the job requires these things, even if you can do the job. I do apply for every job I feel I have a good chance of getting, but the stumbling block is always the fact I was sacked.


          Were you told you had to sign up for Universal Jobsmatch??

          I was already signed up and let them know.


          Were you made to give the DWP access??

          Yes. they said they needed access to check my jobsearch.
          How long have you been claiming JSA for? The law is that as you have a JSA agreement you have a legal responsibility to follow it or face losing your benefit subject to any appeals. However, as you're more interested in security type roles you could say that previous jobs you have been put forward for up to now are just not suitable for your abilities/ skills, and doing temporary work of 8 or more hours is not suitable or fair for you as it will just put you back in the same position you are now, when the employed has finished 'using' you. Tell them that when you have your SIA licence that you will likely have a guaranteed 40 + hour week, as security could be manning building sites, doing CCTV, going to football matches or music concerts, patrolling in a vehicle etc. Tell them that you're very keen on security but that you need the professional qualification to work in the security industry to have a reliable income. Do not let anyone speak down to you no matter who they are. Think before you speak though, but when you do speak make sure you get your point across (be assertive....but not aggressive). They're no better than you, except they may have a few more qualifications and use a few bigger words than you may be. Do not lose your temper, if you feel you're going to, take a deep breath and count to about 10 in your head.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

            Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
            How long have you been claiming JSA for?
            post #1
            Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
            The law is that as you have a JSA agreement you have a legal responsibility to follow it or face losing your benefit subject to any appeals.
            JsAg's can be challenged BEFORE a sanction has been applied - (see section 10) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/18/contents
            Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
            However, as you're more interested in security type roles you could say that previous jobs you have been put forward for up to now are just not suitable for your abilities/ skills, and doing temporary work of 8 or more hours is not suitable or fair for you as it will just put you back in the same position you are now, when the employed has finished 'using' you.
            see my comments (post #2 and #4)

            Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
            Do not let anyone speak down to you no matter who they are. Think before you speak though, but when you do speak make sure you get your point across (be assertive....but not aggressive). They're no better than you, except they may have a few more qualifications and use a few bigger words than you may be. Do not lose your temper, if you feel you're going to, take a deep breath and count to about 10 in your head.
            actually ... most of the 'advisors' at my local DWP office are less qualified than me :lol: (the last job application I saw for there (3mths ago) stated they need ONE degree (or diploma equivalent) but no need for any qualifications in a certain subject . They don't usually bother with the 'bigger words' (they don't know the meaning of half what I say) and they mostly try 'bully-boy' tactics to get a claimant to cave in.

            I do agree with you re: not losing your temper (let them do it instead ... it usually happens when you tell them they're wrong or actually KNOW your rights )
            [MENTION=81937]DontWannaBeHear[/MENTION] ... is there any chance you can record neetings/appointments (it's legal to do so - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-768774)??
            Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

            It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

            recte agens confido

            ~~~~~

            Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
            But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

            Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

              Originally posted by Kati View Post
              post #1
              JsAg's can be challenged BEFORE a sanction has been applied - (see section 10) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/18/contents
              see my comments (post #2 and #4)

              actually ... most of the 'advisors' at my local DWP office are less qualified than me :lol: (the last job application I saw for there (3mths ago) stated they need ONE degree (or diploma equivalent) but no need for any qualifications in a certain subject . They don't usually bother with the 'bigger words' (they don't know the meaning of half what I say) and they mostly try 'bully-boy' tactics to get a claimant to cave in.

              I do agree with you re: not losing your temper (let them do it instead ... it usually happens when you tell them they're wrong or actually KNOW your rights )
              @DontWannaBeHear ... is there any chance you can record neetings/appointments (it's legal to do so - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ncoming-768774)??
              Thanks for that Kati, it serves me right for skim reading for dates! 'One degree' you say, if they had 'one degree of common sense' this would be a good start. A month seems terribly unfair to force someone to do an unsuitable job. i know they have a reasonable period and i think it is 6 months on DSS law I have come across in the past. It was the case that with an SIA licence they'd walk into a job tomorrow. The problem was labourers turn up at security firms to be told, your need you SIA. Things must have changed since the country's economic problems. I was talking about law, but informally the op could, as you say, make a complaint against the individual or contact someone in his JSA's office or contact the regional supervisor, before appealing (if they were to stop benefits). He may be able to get a career development loan from the bank if they're still offering them, to do a job he wants to do if not security something else. The idea is you pay once you're earning. If he is of age an apprenticeship would be very good as an alternative. The advisor should not have told half of the costs would be met for his SIA course if this was in fact not true either.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
                Thanks for that Kati, it serves me right for skim reading for dates! 'One degree' you say, if they had 'one degree of common sense' this would be a good start. A month seems terribly unfair to force someone to do an unsuitable job. i know they have a reasonable period and i think it is 6 months on DSS law I have come across in the past. It was the case that with an SIA licence they'd walk into a job tomorrow. The problem was labourers turn up at security firms to be told, your need you SIA. Things must have changed since the country's economic problems. I was talking about law, but informally the op could, as you say, make a complaint against the individual or contact someone in his JSA's office or contact the regional supervisor, before appealing (if they were to stop benefits). He may be able to get a career development loan from the bank if they're still offering them, to do a job he wants to do if not security something else. The idea is you pay once you're earning. If he is of age an apprenticeship would be very good as an alternative. The advisor should not have told half of the costs would be met for his SIA course if this was in fact not true either.
                but ... why should he apply for an (unafordable atm) loan when the DWP has funding available (see my link in post #2)
                Originally posted by Kati View Post
                You might be eligible for help via the Flexible Support Fund - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wo...yment-schemes/
                Last edited by Kati; 24th February 2016, 08:42:AM.
                Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                recte agens confido

                ~~~~~

                Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                  Its confirmed by the jobcentre that I wont have to pay a penny to get the SIA licence. The Assessors which have some European funding pay 50%, and the job centre pay the other 50% if I get a job within 6 months of getting the licence. If I don't get a job in that time, the licence is taken off me. Wont cost me a penny either way.

                  I am almost 50 and on blood pressure tablets, so im not looking for doorman work. Im looking for CCTV side of things which has its own SIA licence. I am originally from a retail background, last job was in management and had a reasonable income. When the assessment suggested security and we looked into it, I thought why not.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                    Originally posted by Kati View Post
                    but ... why should he apply for an (unafordable atm) loan when the DWP has funding available (see my link in post #2)
                    Apparently the FSF is worth over 147 million nationally, which incudes a Deprived Area Fund of some 50 million (1/3). The criteria for it includes training according to a Parliament briefing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                      Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
                      Apparently the FSF is worth over 147 million nationally, which incudes a Deprived Area Fund of some 50 million (1/3). The criteria for it includes training according to a Parliament briefing.
                      exactly ... and it is overseen by the 'LOCAL' jobcentre manager for each region.

                      You can get grants (or loans) for training, travel expenses, interview clothes etc...
                      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                      It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                      recte agens confido

                      ~~~~~

                      Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                      But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                      Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                        Originally posted by Kati View Post
                        You cannot be forced to apply for jobs that are not in your 'area of expertise' or that offer less hours/zero hours/commission based pay.
                        My agreement states I am available for 40 hours a week. If I am reading one of the links you included correctly, because my availability is 40 hours a week, they can not take action against me if I do not apply for or accept a job for less then 24 hours a week. I would have taken a job for 16 hours a week if offered one, but if I am reading it correct then I will make a point of not accepting anything he suggests which is less than 24 hours a week.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                          Originally posted by DontWannaBeHear View Post
                          My agreement states I am available for 40 hours a week. If I am reading one of the links you included correctly, because my availability is 40 hours a week, they can not take action against me if I do not apply for or accept a job for less then 24 hours a week. I would have taken a job for 16 hours a week if offered one, but if I am reading it correct then I will make a point of not accepting anything he suggests which is less than 24 hours a week.
                          exactly!! :nod:

                          I'm afraid to say that most of the time you have to play them at their own game here

                          There are rules and regulations that the DWP have to adhere to in their 'business practices' ... if you KNOW these requirements, you can (mostly) fend off the sanctions/hassle xx
                          Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                          It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                          recte agens confido

                          ~~~~~

                          Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                          I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                          But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                          Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                            Thanks for all the responses.

                            Its been eating away at me all yesterday and last night to the point ive not had much sleep. So Ive decided to write a letter of complaint which Ive just finished and will hand in tomorrow morning.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Claimaing Job seekers allownace

                              Just a quick update.

                              I saw the same advisor and something had clearly been said because he had a completely different attitude and couldn't do enough for me. Neither of us mentioned what had been said previously and carried on as if this was our first meeting. This time he gave lots of good advice and pointers which I have taken on board. I came away feeling we had got somewhere and that I had a few directions I could go. To me, this time he did his job and advised me, and he did it in a professional and courteous way.

                              Thanks for all your help

                              Comment

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