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**CASE DISMISSED** HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

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  • **CASE DISMISSED** HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

    Hi everyone, I'm hoping you can help me with guidance on a credit card default and the enforceability of the agreement (as well as where I may stand with a potential PPI claim).

    Here is some basic information -
    • Halifax credit card with a limit of just under £4k
    • Taken out in the middle of Dec 2006
    • "Credit card repayment cover" payments total around £750 made up to the middle of Dec 2008 (Initially, I couldn't recall opting in to the cover when applying for the card. I cancelled when I came to understand that they would not protect me in the case of me not being able to make payments if unemployed).
    • Last payment made on the account was in early Feb 2011
    • The account shows up as defaulted on my credit file. The date is at the end of Jul 2011. No mention of Halifax, it says; "Credit Card from 1st Credit (Finance) Limited (I)"


    Some background info -
    It's been quite some time now, so I can't exactly remember all the facts. I think I received a letter from Halifax at the time of default saying that they had passed the account on to a debt collection agency. The first agency I remember tried for quite some time to chase the matter up (I can't remember if it was 1st Credit at the outset). I remember I had a conversation with some debt collection agency and asked them to provide proof of the account in writing. When the person on the phone realised I wasn't going to communicate any further until they had sent me paperwork to backup their claim. They passed the matter (back or onwards) to another agency. That was a long time ago.I never heard from them again. I have changed address more than once since 2006. I usually treat collection agency letters as spam.

    Recent developments -
    However, at the end of November I got a letter from Judge & Priestley solicitors, saying that they are acting for 1st Credit (Finance) Ltd and that the creditor assignment the agreement to 1st credit and that by writing I was informed by notice in writing. The letter ended with "should our client not receive full payment within 16 days the client may issue court proceedings."

    I then found a CCA template and after customising it with my particulars, I sent it by email to both Judge & Priestley. The CCA request clearly stated that they have 12 days to provide me with the original agreement and all the transaction details for the account. I didn't think that the email would be acknowledged. No letters were sent to me after that. I did not send them a recorded delivery CCA request by royal mail with the 2 £1 postal orders.

    A couple of days ago I received a pretty thick set of papers from the 1st Credit legal department by regular second class royal mail delivery (around 70 days / 10 weeks after the email I sent). The cover letter states that they are writing in response to my email on Nov 30th and that the contents of my correspondence have been noted. It then goes on to say; " Please find enclosed: 1) A copy of your original credit agreement and a true copy of your credit agreement at the time the account was opened and at the point of default. 2) Statements from Dec 2006 to July 2011 to show how the arrears have accrued." "This fulfils our obligation under section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974. We would request for you to contact us within 30 days to arrange payment of your outstanding account."

    The copy of the original credit card agreement is for the most part illegible. It's a pretty bad photocopy on one side of A4. From what I can make out it has 4 main clauses (each with sub clauses). I can't see anywhere a clear mention of the credit limit. From what I can barely make out clause 2 does say "We will decide your credit limit and tell you what it is. We may change it at any time and will let you know about any change." I can't clearly make out the APR rate either, On the reverse of the same A4 paper is another photocopy of "Credit card application - Your application details". This shows my old address. It's a computer print out. Some of the information, such as employer details and Income have been crossed out and modified with a pen. The revised details are not signed or show my initials. For example the occupation states "domestic cleaner"(?!), which has been crossed out and next to it by pen it says "marketing manager". The income bit said 27.5k and has been crossed out and says 32.5k. There is no mention of credit limit here. There is no mention of the APR rate and neither is there any signature.

    The next document in the file I assume is the "true copy of the credit agreement at the time the account was opened and at the point of default." This has 23 clauses and covers 13 sides of paper. In clause 2.3 it states a (variable) APR rate of 15.9%. In clause 3.2 It says "our interest rates are as follows", then in a table below it says the standard APR rate is 15.94 %. There is no signature on this document.

    All the other sheets of paper are monthly statements (with no Halifax logo, etc). From what I've been sent the first mention of the actual credit limit is on the first statement.

    From the above info my query is three-fold -
    A) Is the agreement enforceable to recover the amount ?
    B) Where do I stand with the PPI ("Credit card repayment cover") payments made totalling around £750 ?
    C) What should be my course of action with this ?

    Your input on the matter would be of immense value to me. I look forward to hearing your feedback soon. If you have any questions please do ask away. Thank you !
    Last edited by Kiwi2016; 11th February 2016, 16:28:PM. Reason: update information
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

    Am I doing something wrong here ? I haven't had any input on my query for the past week. Can anybody help please ?
    Last edited by Kiwi2016; 17th February 2016, 17:27:PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

      :bump: for [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION] xx

      - - - Updated - - -

      :sorry: this was missed [MENTION=81141]Kiwi2016[/MENTION] ... you should get some answers now xx
      Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

      It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

      recte agens confido

      ~~~~~

      Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
      But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

      Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

        Good evening it seems we have missed your post apologies.

        Your points.
        A. If this is a reconstituted agreement ( It must be easily legible in all parts)
        it must also have your name and address as it was when the account was opened
        The terms and conditions relevant at inception and closure of the account
        Also any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's.
        Any material amendments to the Ts & C;s made during the life of the agreement.

        I would like if possible to see a copy of this amended form ( If you have a problem attaching document [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] will
        I am sure assist.

        nem

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

          Originally posted by nemesis45 View Post
          If you have a problem attaching document @Kati will
          I am sure assist.

          nem
          of course I would ... [MENTION=81141]Kiwi2016[/MENTION] feel free to email me with any docs you need posting up (with a link to your thread so I can find it) xx
          Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

          It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

          recte agens confido

          ~~~~~

          Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
          But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

          Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

            Originally posted by Kati View Post
            of course I would ... @Kiwi2016 feel free to email me with any docs you need posting up (with a link to your thread so I can find it) xx
            Thanks [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION]

            nemxx

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

              Good evening, thank you very much for picking up on my thread.

              I have attached 4 Documents for your perusal:
              Doc 1 is the cover letter from First Credit (Finance) Ltd
              Doc. 2 is the photocopy of the original cc agreement
              Doc. 3 is the photocopy of the original cc application
              Doc. 4 is the first page of the multi page "true copy" of the agreement with the T's & C's

              If there is any other information you would like do let me know.

              Kind regards

              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                Originally posted by Kiwi2016 View Post
                Good evening, thank you very much for picking up on my thread.

                I have attached 4 Documents for your perusal:
                Doc 1 is the cover letter from First Credit (Finance) Ltd
                Doc. 2 is the photocopy of the original cc agreement
                Doc. 3 is the photocopy of the original cc application
                Doc. 4 is the first page of the multi page "true copy" of the agreement with the T's & C's

                If there is any other information you would like do let me know.

                Kind regards

                Good morning Kiwi,

                Document 2 is not easily legible in all parts..

                The hand written changes to document 3, did you ask for this section to be amended?

                Does any document have your name and address as it was when the account was opened?

                If this is all you have received I do not believe it satisfies the CCA request.

                nem

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                  Hi Nem,


                  thank you for the response. Yes document 2 is not legible in 2 key parts. I can not clearly make out the surname or most of the address on it.
                  The so-called "true copy" of the credit card agreement does have the name and address.
                  Regarding the hand written changes on document; the apparent date on the document is around around a decade ago - I can't remember.
                  Other than the documents I attached, there are lots of monthly statements.

                  In your opinion, hereon in, how do you think I should proceed with all of this ?

                  Thanks,
                  Kiwi

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                    [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION]

                    Hi there, regarding the above mentioned issue I have with 1st credit regarding a Halifax CC; I have received a N1SDT Claim form from a county court. Can you please help me plot a course of action going forward ? I have a limited amount of time to reply to the claim form. Your assistance would be much appreciated . Thanks, Kiwi.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                      Originally posted by Kiwi2016 View Post
                      @nemesis45 @Kati

                      Hi there, regarding the above mentioned issue I have with 1st credit regarding a Halifax CC; I have received a N1SDT Claim form from a county court. Can you please help me plot a course of action going forward ? I have a limited amount of time to reply to the claim form. Your assistance would be much appreciated . Thanks, Kiwi.
                      Hello Kiwi,

                      What are the particulars of claim (POC) can you please post a copy of the form after removing name/address and claim number or type in POC word for word.

                      nem

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                        [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]

                        Hi there Nem,
                        here is are Particulars of the claim:
                        "The Claimant is the assignee of a Bank of Scotland plc debt in the sum of £3,700 assigned on xx/11/13. Statutory notices of assignment were sent to the defendant. The debt is a Credit Card account first opened by the original creditor on or about xx/12/06 under ref xxxxxxxx. The Defendant used the credit facilities. On xx/07/11 the account defaulted with an outstanding balance of £3700. The Claimant and its predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due. In breach of contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due.
                        AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
                        1. the sum of £3700
                        2. Statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from xx/8/15 to xx/8/16 £310, and thereafter at a daily rate of £0.81 until judgement or sooner payment"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                          Originally posted by Kiwi2016 View Post
                          @nemesis45

                          Hi there Nem,
                          here is are Particulars of the claim:
                          "The Claimant is the assignee of a Bank of Scotland plc debt in the sum of £3,700 assigned on xx/11/13. Statutory notices of assignment were sent to the defendant. The debt is a Credit Card account first opened by the original creditor on or about xx/12/06 under ref xxxxxxxx. The Defendant used the credit facilities. On xx/07/11 the account defaulted with an outstanding balance of £3700. The Claimant and its predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due. In breach of contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due.
                          AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
                          1. the sum of £3700
                          2. Statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from xx/8/15 to xx/8/16 £310, and thereafter at a daily rate of £0.81 until judgement or sooner payment"
                          First Steps:

                          1. A request for a copy of the credit card agreement to the claimant 1st Credit Finance ( template in the green box at the top of the main forum page. Use a postal order for the £ 1.00 statutory fee mark it clearly " For Statutory Fee Only " copy and keep for your record. Use signed for post and check delivery date and signature: 1st Credit has 12 + 2 Working days to comply.

                          2. Are solicitors acting for 1st Credit? Which one? You need to send a request to the solicitors under the provisions of Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 for the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim i.e. The Notices of Assignment, the Agreement, the Default Notice.

                          1st Credit may argue that a default notice is not actually mentioned just the fact that the account was defaulted on xx/07/2011.

                          Have you checked your credit file for this account? If not check Noddle free online just to see if the figures in the POC are correct and the default date on the file is the same as the claim.
                          Do you know when you made the last payment was made or an written acknowledgment of the debt was made/

                          nem

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                            [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION]

                            Hi Nem, I have put my responses to your points below.


                            Originally posted by nemesis45 View Post
                            First Steps:

                            1. A request for a copy of the credit card agreement to the claimant 1st Credit Finance ( template in the green box at the top of the main forum page. Use a postal order for the £ 1.00 statutory fee mark it clearly " For Statutory Fee Only " copy and keep for your record. Use signed for post and check delivery date and signature: 1st Credit has 12 + 2 Working days to comply.

                            I can resend a CCA request, but if you look at the first post of this thread (which explains events before I joined this forum for assistance) you'll see that I sent one in Nov by email and received a written response (way later) in early Feb. Do I still make a CCA request with 1st credit again ?

                            2. Are solicitors acting for 1st Credit? Which one? You need to send a request to the solicitors under the provisions of Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 for the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim i.e. The Notices of Assignment, the Agreement, the Default Notice.

                            Yes, it's with Judge&preistley. At the time (Nov 2015) when I sent the CCA email to 1st Credit, I sent the same template letter to the solicitors. Is there a template letter you can refer me to that I can use to send out to them ?


                            1st Credit may argue that a default notice is not actually mentioned just the fact that the account was defaulted on xx/07/2011.

                            Have you checked your credit file for this account? If not check Noddle free online just to see if the figures in the POC are correct and the default date on the file is the same as the claim.
                            Do you know when you made the last payment was made or an written acknowledgment of the debt was made/
                            I've checked my credit file and the figure is the same (just off by .22p) and the default date is also the same as the POC.
                            According to the credit card statements they sent me, the last time I made a token payment was on 07/02/11.

                            nem
                            If you haven't already, I'd be grateful if you could have a study of the few posts towards the top of the thread from some months ago in which I attached some of the documents 1st credit sent out to me after I made the email CCA request back in Nov. This may help shed light on the entire situation for you.

                            In terms of the POC itself, having added 5 days from the date of issue, i have 13 days from today to get it back to the county court. What do you suggest I do with the POC itself at this point ?

                            Many thanks,
                            Kiwi

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: HALIFAX CREDIT CARD & 1st CREDIT (FINANCE) LTD

                              Originally posted by Kiwi2016 View Post
                              @nemesis45

                              Hi Nem, I have put my responses to your points below.




                              If you haven't already, I'd be grateful if you could have a study of the few posts towards the top of the thread from some months ago in which I attached some of the documents 1st credit sent out to me after I made the email CCA request back in Nov. This may help shed light on the entire situation for you.

                              In terms of the POC itself, having added 5 days from the date of issue, i have 13 days from today to get it back to the county court. What do you suggest I do with the POC itself at this point ?

                              Many thanks,
                              Kiwi
                              Hello Kiwii,

                              I'm just off out for a while and will go back through the thread for you.

                              nem

                              Comment

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