Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqtenant.htm
By law landlords must carry out an annual gas safety check and provide tenants with a copy of the record of that check. New tenants should receive a copy before they move in and existing tenants should get a copy within 28 days of the annual check being done you don't have a current gas safety record you can report to HSE via form LGSR1.

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Oh for pities sake. Just because the case is in small claims, sadly it happens a lot, and no it isn't fair. On the order you got about the reinstatement there would be a para about arguing within 7 days - I wouldn't recommend doing so as a LIP to be honest as it'd just be a waste of £255 (application fee has gone up) - that's where you could have argued Mitchell etc ref compliance with deadlines and non relief from sanctions etc .... However all of that behaviour can go into your witness statements as management of the case should be taken into account when deciding on costs.

Reinforce it with https://www.supremecourt.uk/decided-...8_Judgment.pdf

[Sessie]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Charity & Amethyst

It's a bad day, I dont know my *** from my head
I just spoke to Shelter who were horried and said, 'does he know anyone at the court for this to be happening?' ... they'd not heard of anyone being granted so much leeway by a court (I was starting to wonder this myself)

I am beyond words grateful to you both - I wish I could express it more to the two of you - I'm moving forward and I keep getting kicked back.
If it wasnt for LB's and you two helping me today I think the corner of the room would be taken up by me rocking back and forth as I just felt I couldnt take anymore

I will get a coffee, pull myself together and get looking at Charitiy's links and work on adding all this to my witness statement. The court doesnt want witness statements until hearing date, but I met the deadline of 23 for the claimant's witness statements and I have asked court if I can have until Monday to put additional paperwork in to them regarding all this confusion, they agreed, although added I didnt need to until date of hearing. I'm keeping to the deadlines, as nothing can be said at the hearing in that case, and the call was recorded on my side giving me the extension until Monday am (which in affect is only 1 working day - today). I said I will be there at opening times.

I will get on with this, I dont want to keep bothering you because you've helped me for free, you've better things to do and you've both been more than generous. As I keep saying, I'm so grateful for your guidance - you're both amazing - thank you so much, I wish I could say more to you both xxx

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Charity & Amethyst

It's a bad day, I dont know my *** from my head
I just spoke to Shelter who were horried and said, 'does he know anyone at the court for this to be happening?' ... they'd not heard of anyone being granted so much leeway by a court (I was starting to wonder this myself)

I am beyond words grateful to you both - I wish I could express it more to the two of you - I'm moving forward and I keep getting kicked back.
If it wasnt for LB's and you two helping me today I think the corner of the room would be taken up by me rocking back and forth as I just felt I couldnt take anymore

I will get a coffee, pull myself together and get looking at Charitiy's links and work on adding all this to my witness statement. The court doesnt want witness statements until hearing date, but I met the deadline of 23 for the claimant's witness statements and I have asked court if I can have until Monday to put additional paperwork in to them regarding all this confusion, they agreed, although added I didnt need to until date of hearing. I'm keeping to the deadlines, as nothing can be said at the hearing in that case, and the call was recorded on my side giving me the extension until Monday am (which in affect is only 1 working day - today). I said I will be there at opening times.

I will get on with this, I dont want to keep bothering you because you've helped me for free, you've better things to do and you've both been more than generous. As I keep saying, I'm so grateful for your guidance - you're both amazing - thank you so much, I wish I could say more to you both xxx

You're doing well, Sessie.

Just keep doing as the court instructs you - you'll be squeaky-clean & LL will look like an ...........(insert your favourite expletive)

[Sessie]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

You're doing well, Sessie.

Just keep doing as the court instructs you - you'll be squeaky-clean & LL will look like an ...........(insert your favourite expletive)

Thank you Charitynjw - you've made me quite tearful - but in a good way :o)
Saying thank you just doesnt seem enough on here - you're names on screens but you're real kind genuine humans who have helped a stranger with a problem from the start - you've each given up your time, treated me with nothing but utter kindness and I am so so grateful - especially today ... I hope you all have a great weekend, I wish I could help you each back in some way xxx
Des that goes for you too, I'm looking into the contractual thing now - thank you xxxx
PS - I know some of you may well be male - so I'm sorry for adding x's but it's meant in a 'thank you way' (before I get into trouble :o))

PHONECALL TO COURT JUST NOW:
I have just rang another court annonomously, just to query the N244 form - I was told in no uncertain terms (at least that's how it came over) by a clerk who appeared to not hesitate and know his job, I could be wrong, but it's how he appeared, this is what he said when I asked what the N244 form was for:

The N244 (not to be confused he said with the N245) is to be used if for instance one wished for their case to be reinstated.
I asked what form would one use if they required for instance extra time to provide paperwork.
He said, you would again use the N244.
If a person made multiple requests ie extension time for paperwork and a claim to be reinstated or anything else, then you should put it all on one form (the N244) rather than multiple forms.

I asked what happened next, he said:
It then gets put in front of a Judge for directions and the other party is informed (although he was not clear as to whether the other party was informed of the request or just the outcome of the Judge's decision)

What he did say was, all requests have to be put in via this form. A request cannot be made by telephone or email for things like reinstating, extensions etc

I also asked about Witness statement deadlines and he said - these have to be abided by to the date as they are Orders. If a defendant / claimant wished extra time then again, they are to complete the N244 form. Should the Witness statements not be put in nor a N244, then anything that party brings to the Hearing will possibly not be considered by the Judge.

I just thought I'd add this for anyone else who may face it, because I didnt realise the Court of all places would do what they are doing to me, I thought rules were rules. I have contacted Shelter also they are going to look at the entire case, as they feel something is quite wrong with how (as Amethyst rightly said) this case is being managed.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing is for sure, from the start of this case, the only people who have been there for me is Legal Beagles. Not a person on here has been rude or condemning. I have (because I'm terrible to do so) written long posts, bored people to death and asked for help from you, you have supported me, a complete stranger, for nothing in return, I have not had any support from elsewhere, I cant afford legal help, my business should be up and running as planned but this case has consumed everything, and I'm around 8mths behind with it. I am blessed to have a partner who is supporting me financially but it is hard, I have always earned and worked hard. No matter how much I type, I cant put into words what you people mean to me, I am bowled over by your knowledge, and that's EVERY ONE of you that has posted on this thread. I have experience in other parts of law where I could help others on the site, but this case has consumed every moment of the day and when I'm not working on it, I'm trying to bury my head in my own work. I will do everything I can to give back to LB what has been unselfishly given to me. I know this probably sounds quite dramatic, but at this particular time, you people have no idea how you have helped me. If I had a hat I'd take it off too each of you (I think I'll actually go and put one on :o)) because to be able to quote the things you each do, well, you're just purely amazing. Ok, drama over, I think you see how much I think of you all x

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Thank you Charitynjw - you've made me quite tearful - but in a good way :o)
Saying thank you just doesnt seem enough on here - you're names on screens but you're real kind genuine humans who have helped a stranger with a problem from the start - you've each given up your time, treated me with nothing but utter kindness and I am so so grateful - especially today ... I hope you all have a great weekend, I wish I could help you each back in some way xxx
Des that goes for you too, I'm looking into the contractual thing now - thank you xxxx

PS - I know some of you may well be male - so I'm sorry for adding x's but it's meant in a 'thank you way' (before I get into trouble :o))

PHONECALL TO COURT JUST NOW:
I have just rang another court annonomously, just to query the N244 form - I was told in no uncertain terms (at least that's how it came over) by a clerk who appeared to not hesitate and know his job, I could be wrong, but it's how he appeared, this is what he said when I asked what the N244 form was for:

The N244 (not to be confused he said with the N245) is to be used if for instance one wished for their case to be reinstated.
I asked what form would one use if they required for instance extra time to provide paperwork.
He said, you would again use the N244.
If a person made multiple requests ie extension time for paperwork and a claim to be reinstated or anything else, then you should put it all on one form (the N244) rather than multiple forms.

I asked what happened next, he said:
It then gets put in front of a Judge for directions and the other party is informed (although he was not clear as to whether the other party was informed of the request or just the outcome of the Judge's decision)

What he did say was, all requests have to be put in via this form. A request cannot be made by telephone or email for things like reinstating, extensions etc

I also asked about Witness statement deadlines and he said - these have to be abided by to the date as they are Orders. If a defendant / claimant wished extra time then again, they are to complete the N244 form. Should the Witness statements not be put in nor a N244, then anything that party brings to the Hearing will possibly not be considered by the Judge.

I just thought I'd add this for anyone else who may face it, because I didnt realise the Court of all places would do what they are doing to me, I thought rules were rules. I have contacted Shelter also they are going to look at the entire case, as they feel something is quite wrong with how (as Amethyst rightly said) this case is being managed.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing is for sure, from the start of this case, the only people who have been there for me is Legal Beagles. Not a person on here has been rude or condemning. I have (because I'm terrible to do so) written long posts, bored people to death and asked for help from you, you have supported me, a complete stranger, for nothing in return, I have not had any support from elsewhere, I cant afford legal help, my business should be up and running as planned but this case has consumed everything, and I'm around 8mths behind with it. I am blessed to have a partner who is supporting me financially but it is hard, I have always earned and worked hard. No matter how much I type, I cant put into words what you people mean to me, I am bowled over by your knowledge, and that's EVERY ONE of you that has posted on this thread. I have experience in other parts of law where I could help others on the site, but this case has consumed every moment of the day and when I'm not working on it, I'm trying to bury my head in my own work. I will do everything I can to give back to LB what has been unselfishly given to me. I know this probably sounds quite dramatic, but at this particular time, you people have no idea how you have helped me. If I had a hat I'd take it off too each of you (I think I'll actually go and put one on :o)) because to be able to quote the things you each do, well, you're just purely amazing. Ok, drama over, I think you see how much I think of you all x

Hi Sessie,

If you are on a low income, you may well be eligible for court fee remission.

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u..._forms_id=4397

[des8]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Further to your query about a tenant giving notice, I did find this (which is from a Northern Irish advice site)
"If the landlord has seriously breached the agreement, you could threaten to issue Notice to Quit on the grounds that he has breached the agreement. There is always a risk to tenants if they leave a tenancy before the term has expired so it's important that you

• write to the landlord first, explaining which repairs are his legal or contractual responsibility
• write again, explaining that you believe he is in breach and will issue Notice to Quit if these repairs are not dealt with by a specified date
• after this time has lapsed, write enclosing Notice to Quit and clearly state that you are issuing this Notice because the landlord has materially breached his contractual obligations.

If your landlord takes you to court to claim unpaid rent, you can defend your case. However, it will be up to the judge on the day to decide whether or not the breach of contract is significant enough to make the lease void."
- See more at: http://www.housingadviceni.org/advic....Wk7SgJOU.dpuf

[Sessie]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

THANK YOU DES - YOU DIDNT NEED TO DO THAT FOR ME - THANK YOU X
I'm spending the evening looking at all the links you great beagles have posted here, thank you

[Kati]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Saying thank you just doesnt seem enough on here - you're names on screens but you're real kind genuine humans who have helped a stranger with a problem from the start - you've each given up your time, treated me with nothing but utter kindness and I am so so grateful - especially today ... I hope you all have a great weekend, I wish I could help you each back in some way xxx

I'm sure I can speak for every one of the Beagles when I say "you are more than welcome :yo:" ... We are all here because we've been there/done that at some point and want to help others that are going through it :nod: xx

[Sessie]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Re: Court Remission

I'm not earning anything at moment, and not claiming either, my partner is supporting me as I am trying to set up my own business but this case has taken over.

Initially when the case started I applied for fee remission and it was granted. Then when they set the hearing date, the clerk told me I was also due to pay as well as the claimant (335-00), but then he looked into it and said as the defendant I didnt need to pay, When the claimant was struckout I then became liable for the hearing fee, but was told to apply again for fee remission, just as I was putting the ex160 in, his case was reinstated. He paid the 335-00 to become the claimant again and I was told I had nothing to pay as the defendant. I double checked this again this morning and apparently I have nothing to pay.

However, when speak with Shelter earlier today, they felt I was going to head for court costs.

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Re: Court Remission
However, when speak with Shelter earlier today, they felt I was going to head for court costs.

Unlikely if your circumstances haven't changed.

If you need to apply to court for something (ie, amend a statement, apply for a strike out of case, etc), you'll need to submit an EX160 with each application, so keep a copy for reference.

[Sessie]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Can anyone (in my laymans terms) answer this:
1. After the Claimant sent in his tiny paragraph of pathetic lies of particulars - and I responded with the wonderful Amethyst's help - would the Claimant have been sent a copy of my response?

2. As I put in a counterclaim with my response, I notice from old paperwork I had after sending in the response pack, a letter from the court acknowledging my counterclaim and advising the claimant if he (not correct wording but more or less) disputed this counterclaim he was to contact the court by xxx date - I heard nothing - any thoughts on that

3. All the paperwork I have received so for is ONLY from court:
a) initial claim from mcol with claimants particulars on it
b) directions from court
c) hearing date and do we want mediation

Is there any paperwork that the court should have received between the response and now from the claimant that I too should have seen?

4. Caim for the claimant was struckout as you know based on 2 failed hearing fee orders - but it was reinstated (as I know now) through one person at the court - lady named Betty Boop lets say. Betty apparently received a phonecall from ex claimant at that point defendant - he oh get this - was not aware he had to pay prior to mediation and failed on 2 orders - Betty Boop either knows him or feel for the stupid story and in her words to me on phone 'Mr Dumbassripoffmerchant was very upset on phone, I know this as I took the call and I am the one who has actually been dealing with your case, I advised Mr Dumbassripoffroguewhogetsdumberbytheminute that I would speak to Judge. I then spoke to Judge on Mr Nothingbutaconman and explained his situation and asked the Judge if the case could be reinstated. The Judge allowed this:
a) Shouldnt the defendant (initially claimant have filled in an N244?
b) Should I not have been privy to this form or request (* see below why I ask this)
c) I was told catagorically (cant spell that) on friday by a court clerk that with exception of remission fees - an N244 has to be completed if a case is to be reinstated, etc or any party requires extra time - he was adamant that no case can be reinstated without the N244 - however I spoke to him annon as not to draw attention to the case at moment because if there has been wrongdoing I want it on my side not rectified at moment
d) The court (and mediation) have both looked at the case and confirmed no N244 has/had been completed by Mr IseemtobeabletogetawaywithanythingbecauseIamalying scumbag

* 4b) I asked this because - I rang court 2 weeks ago and asked for if I could possibly have half a day extra to bring in witness statements, while they did not refuse, the lady was kind to me and said as the date was an Order, it had to go before both Judge and (then Defendant) - and it was unlikely to be granted even though it was only a half day request ... that's why Im asking as I cant ask for half a day yet his case gets reinstated after failing 2 orders, for no good reason other than 'he didnt realise', no N244 completed, and he gets an extra time of 31 April to send in witness statements ............ of which I still havent receieved

5. Witness Statements - these were initially ORDERED to be submitted by both parties on 23 Mar, then after strickout and reinstatement, he was given until 31 - 1st letter says serve all papers to court and each other - 2nd letter states - to each other. Previous court clerks have said, no witness statements at hearing means no evidence will be taken into account on day of hearing ............. however, Betty Boop who has bent over backwards, forwards and god knows whatelse for (now again) Claimant has said - 'dont you worry, just bring them along on day, they dont need to be sent to each other and Judge wont look at them until Hearing date' ............... so what's the court letters with the Order's in there for with deadline dates? He's got my paperwork, I havent got his. What will really happen at hearing and do I have a legal complaint against court for mismanagement of this case?

I ask because another post by 'Pete', albeit, he's the Claimant and his case seems more severe than mine - a lot of the failings of the court and other party seems similar to mine - yet we're the ones abiding by the rules yet nothing is going in our favour

Much love and thanks xxx

Damn, I tipped an entire pot of yogurt all over my pj's !

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Yes the Claimant is sent a copy of the Defence (and counterclaim ) by the Court.

The Claimant should have filed a defence to the counterclaim. You can ask the court for judgment by default due to the non defence of the counterclaim under part 12 (12 3(b) ).

If you get the default judgment for the counterclaim awarded then the landlord could apply to set aside that judgment. But still give the court a call and ask if you can enter Default Judgment for the counterclaim against the LL. (I'm not sure how you do it with a counterclaim - normal claims it's form N255)

Remember that the court call centre staff can't give advice ( frequently they do and frequently they are just wrong) but can help with procedural stuff.

In small claims between two LIPS deadlines are very often quite flexible. Sometimes that works in your favour, sometimes not. It will be noted at the hearing.

The WS should be exchanged 14 days before the hearing. If he doesn't file a Witness Statement then he shouldn't be able to use facts and evidence within the WS at the hearing, but again, small claims, LIPS, the judge likely lets it go.

You could apply to strike him out because of the failures and the lack of sanctions, but it is likely he would be given X days to comply before being struck, and so on on the merry go round holding things up. You're better highlighting failings at the hearing.

If you can post up copies of the orders - if there are sanctions for non compliance you can do more than if they are just general orders.

[andi-leigh2]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Wow - what a novel ! Haven't read it all yet, but the relevan points that interest me are regarding your gas appliances / certificate & your deposit protection. DP's are very strict now as I'm sure you've found out, and if compliance with the regulations is not met by the Landlord, and the deposit isn't protected in an approved scheme within the statutory period since the tenancy began, then a Court can award you money based upon the amount of deposit and length of non-compliance. Theres plenty of sites on internet regarding the regs as you've probably already found out as it appears that you've done your homework well.

As far as gas appliances etc are concerned, that is my specialist area, having been Gas Safe Regsitered since 2009, and prior to that CORGI Registered since 1991.

The HSE are very very hot on CP12 Landlord Certificates, and the penalties handed out in the Magistrates Courts are quite severe and draconian, generally being in the thousands, and not 100's together with substantial costs orders. It looks like here that you can prove beyond all doubt that he has been non-compliant. For example, you say that he left a gas cooker there not connected. If its an appliance the landlord has supllied then its his duty to ensure that that appliance is working and tested prior to the tenancy commencing. The certificate covers the entire gas installation, cookers, fires boilers, pipework integrity, installation practice & criteria, earthing of appliances and pipework, performance of appliances, etc etc The list is endless. It would be a good idea if you have pictures of the items in question to prove how the property was presented to you at the beginning. As far as back dating a gas certificate is concerned, then should he attempt to do that then it is a very serious matter which would almost certainly result in a prison sentence. There have been instances where rogue landlords have bought a blank pad of certificates from a plumbers merchants and randomly chosen a Gas Safe registration number from a website and used that ! All gas engineers have a unique card ID licence number so any work / inspections carried out can be traced back to an individual and not only a company or registered business. In closing, if you push hard enough on the gas front, regardless of what else you need to deal with, this shall cause him enough legal grief on its own to warrant a visit to the Magistrates Court. I have no time for rogue landlords and always like to see the full weight of the law bought down on them. Anything else wyou want to know about gas, electrical, plumbing etc, then just ask.

[Captain Haddock]

Re: Court Claim From Ex Landlord ... A Very Worry Crook Type

Subbed.