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Conveyancing Information Question ?

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  • #16
    Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

    Hi Des8 .. your replies are greatly appreciated!

    No I did not send an SAR and my caution in not doing so, immediately, was that I feared both parties may demand a high fee to deter me from doing so. Is there any regulation in what they can charge?

    The marketing/selling agents are Savills which is a multi national concern and as such should be responding somewhat more rapidly. Two days ago, I spoke by phone to the CLC regarding their licenced conveyancer member and they took details from me and promised to approach the conveyancer concerned, to which I was promised a phone call back ( from either party ) which has not yet happened.

    I have a gut feeling that both parties may well be talking to each other here but certainly not to me. I have taken on board your point about writing to the agents CEO to progress this matter and I will certainly do that if I hear nothing by the weekend. How do I source the CEO and his contact address for Savills?

    Have to say that I am expecting a tad more than simple apology as I have been put in a financial position that I would not otherwise have been put in had I been advised of the correct council tax banding at the time of preparing to buy. Surely that is one of the reasons behind the conveyancing procedure?

    As always, appreciate your feedback.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

      SAR usual maximum fee is £10

      Jeremy Selsby is Savills' CEO
      contact here: http://www.savills.co.uk/forms/conta...aspx?id=9435-0

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

        Just an update on the matter. Now received replies from both parties, selling agents and marketing agents.

        The licenced conveyancer was miffed at me approaching the CLC for advice, even though they had failed to respond to two letters ( one recorded ) over a period of some nine weeks. They suggest that if the managing agents ( surely they mean selling agents ) had deliberately meant to mislead me regarding council tax banding, then I may have a case against them. My view is that there has to be no proof of any intent to deliberately mislead to have a case but there simply has to be culpable neglect in providing accurate information, in this case the council tax banding, that otherwise would have prevented me from proceeding with the purchase. They also add that council tax banding is not within their remit to verify but I cannot recall any advice that I need to check that for myself. I can only assume that they are denying any negligence as it's not within their recognised framework of legal work.

        The written response from the selling agents basically acknowledges that the council tax banding has indeed changed from the information that they supply but provide no apology or admission of neglect. As a side issue I had advised them that ( when negotiating to buy ) I had advised their on site agent that I 'would like to make an offer' only to be told that was the price and 'that's how it is'. The letter from a director of the selling agents tells another story, that they had received my offer ( some £5000 less than the asking price ) and it had been put before the vendors and rejected. The facts of that are that NO offer was ever made, discussed or even confirmed as rejected and that story of a rejected offer is pure fantasy. It does however raise the question of whether I should have been able to make an offer beyond the on-site agent and if so negotiations may have been successful at some point, as I was a cash in the bank buyer and stressed I wanted to complete in a calendar month. I am taking that issue back in my reply.

        Don't know how far I will get with this but I will raise an SAR request and suggest that I am happy to negotiate on a settlement of damages! I also have the option to address the whole problem to the selling agents CEO especially as they have put in writing to me events that are completely fictitious and really need to be explained, especially from a prestigious chain of multi national agents.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

          Was the conveyancer part of the Quality Conveyancing Scheme, and was the Standard Form of Contract used?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

            The conveyancer should request details about council banding from the vendor.
            If he failed to ask, and just worked on the basis of previous sales, he was possibly negligent.
            If he did ask, and was given false information, you can proceed against the vendor.
            The conveyancer is correct in that he does not have to verify the information he is given.
            If the vendor does not know the answer to any question he should say so.

            In this instance it appears the agents published an incorrect band, and the vendor (or his solicitor) confirmed the error.
            They are apparently your target(s), but you do need to obtain from your conveyancer the vendor's answers to the pre contract enquiries.(If it goes to court you may require the original document, not just a copy)

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

              Update : I am now waiting to hear from the selling agents as to responses to my alleging culpable neglect in supplying me with incorrect council tax banding and the financial distress that may cause me. One question please, and the licenced conveyancer has already cast doubt on this, does the selling agent have to deliberately intended to mislead me with an incorrect council tax banding, or does he simply have to be culpably neglectful in his duty to ensure the information was current and correct The information provided was some three years out of date.

              I have made the point in my most recent letter to the selling agent that under Consumer Protection Law, he has illustrated lack of professional diligence i.e. not carrying out reasonable checks on the accuracy and truthfulness of the information provided. That is exactly what they have done, provided information that originated in May 2010, i.e. at the original banding by the Valuation Office Agency, and passed onto to me, via my licenced conveyancer and again at the point of sale via their in house representative, and as such the information was akin to 'library information' only and had clearly been copied many times. The information changed in 2012 when the Valuation office Agency discovered the developers had incorrectly numbered the flats and following that both the VOA and the local authority would have issued statutory notices covering the change. Nine flats in the block were affected by this so mine is not an isolated incident. I hope I am right in what I say here!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?
                • Enquiries before contract are standard. An incorrect answer may lead to a damages claim.
                • Where "caveat emptor" applies, the seller can avoid liability by keeping quiet.
                • But if the seller does give a reply, it must be full and honest

                If you haven't already seen this site you might find this link helpful<http://www.stephens-scown.co.uk/blog...act-enquiries/

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                  AS usual, appreciate the excellent response.

                  I am not sure about the "caveat emptor" situation as I assumed that related to property condition and not an associated outgoing such as council tax. In any event, I suspect that their original intransigence to respond, i.e. 'keeping quiet', may well have reflected their intention to initially avoid confrontation and liability.

                  The seller/marketing agent has responded with a brief reply stating that they 'are taking advice internally and will revert to me shortly'. Watch this space! :tinysmile_cry_t:

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                    1st October 2015 Update : Savills have given my complaint 'every consideration' and have decided that the issue of giving me an incorrect council tax banding is not their responsibility, the information was given in good faith and the duty of care lies with myself and/or my lawyer ( or in this case licensed conveyancer ).

                    I have now discussed the matter with the Ombudsman Services, Property and they agree that there is a matter of 'customer service' to discuss and resolve but they cannot look at the case until I have resubmitted my complaint to Savills in line with Savills' own complaints procedure. This I have now done and that has been acknowledged, agreeing to give further opinion by the 14th October. If it remains unresolved at that point, I can then ask the Ombudsman Services Property to mediate.

                    An interesting point has arisen on the question of supplying incorrect ctax banding information and in fact the information that Savills supplied ( i.e. banding information for my flat dated May 2010 ) was in fact for a different property as ( and while it bore my correct flat number ) because there had been a mix up between the developers and the Valuation office Agency in 2010 and the three flats on my floor had all been incorrectly numbered by the VOA, hence I was advised of the banding for the flat next door which is entirely different. The error was discovered in May 2012 ( Savills had been instructed to see in March 2012 ) so it is my contention that Savills should have known and have made no attempt to check or correct the information and have effectively given me out of date and essentially wrong 'library information'. I have therefore maintained that they remain culpably neglectful in the matter.

                    With regard to the 'caveat emptor' situation, I understand that covers the property condition but does it cover ancillary information such as council tax banding?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                      My understanding is that in replying to enquiries before contract, the seller's responsibility is not to make a misrepresentation which induces the buyer to purchase the property.
                      From the Law Society Property Information Form comes this warning to vendors of property:
                      "It is very important that your answers are accurate. If you giveincorrect or incomplete information to the buyer (on this form orotherwise in writing or in conversation, whether through your estateagent or solicitor or directly to the buyer), the buyer may make aclaim for compensation from you or refuse to complete the purchase"

                      I think this implies that ALL information has to be truthful.
                      The vendor is ultimately responsible for statements produced by his agent, and although a buyer would be advised to check statements about such things as Council Tax, IMO you should be able to rely on them.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                        As always, appreciate the time you have spent in answering my points raised. In light of what you have suggested, I have today sent an updated email to the person within the Savills group handling my complaint, making further points. They have promised a reply by the 14th October although I do not believe that will be resolution in my favour as I very much feel that such big companies will always 'stick together', to put it simply. Watch this space!

                        Thanks again for the valuable input! :cheer2::cheer2:

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                          Right.

                          Replies to pre-contract enquiries are not terms of the contract, so incorrect replies will not give rise to an action for breach of contract, but this does not mean that the seller is under no liability

                          The seller may be liable under the Misrepresentation Act 1967. A misrepresentation exists where a seller or his agent (his solicitor) makes a material false statement of face that induces the buyer to enter into the contract. The remedies depend on the category of misrepresentation. If there has been a fraudulent misrepresentation (the seller deliberately makes a false statement to induce the buyer), the buyer may seek a court order to cancel the contract (obviously not helpful to you) but you can claim damages for loss from the seller. If there has been negligent misrepresentation (the seller made a careless statement), the buyer is entitled to rescission and/or damages. If the misrepresentation is innocent (the seller made a genuine mistake with the statement), the court may order rescission, or damages in lieu, although there is no absolute right to damages in this case.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                            Thank you for that dan_1207, that is incredibly useful information to base further argument on. I can see this ending up with the Ombudsman Services, Property for opinion/arbitration and what you have said suggests that there is a case to be answered. I have no doubt that there was no intention to deceive here but I do believe that the agent or his agent has been culpably neglectful in checking historical information before it was presented to me. Thank you again, great additional advice! :cheer2::cheer2:

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                              Don't forget the Consumer Protection regulations mentioned earlier also give you rights to redress, and if the regulations are breached (look at
                              regulation 3) the offender commits a criminal offence

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Conveyancing Information Question ?

                                Originally posted by des8 View Post
                                Don't forget the Consumer Protection regulations mentioned earlier also give you rights to redress, and if the regulations are breached (look at
                                regulation 3) the offender commits a criminal offence
                                Yes = potentially. Some printed pre-contract enquiries forms carry a disclaimer clause along with the following lines: "These replies are given on behalf of the seller and without responsibility on the part of his solicitors, their partners or employees". To be effective, however, such a clause must be shown to be reasonable. In First National Commercial Bank v Loxleys (a Firm) [1996] it was confirmed that where incorrect replies are given to standard pre-contract enquiries, a disclaimer on the form is subject to the test of reasonableness under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (as amended). The disclaimer is effective if reasonable in the circumstances, but void if not.

                                Comment

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