Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

[Guest]

Hi all,

Hoping someone can give me some advice.

I took out a small unsecured loan over 3 years with Welcome Finance account number 2301385 on 10/10/06, I can't remember how much it was for but its circa £3500. Admittedly I only made a few monthly payments due to unforeseen circumstances. I was young, naive and ignored all threats about legal action for many years.

In turn I was issued with a CCJ on 02/03/09 for £4894.54 by Welcome Finance with help from Howard Cohen & Co. I also chose to ignore this. So some 6 years passed with 2 house moves in that time with not a sound about said CCJ, It fell off my credit report and I was kind of hoping I slipped under the radar and I wouldn't hear about this debt again. Hold my hands up, completely wrong attitude.

Anyway fast forward to 19/06/2015 whilst i was doing my monthly check with credit reference agencies I noticed I had a new CCJ.
I didn't receive any paperwork about it as it went to my old address. After a phone call to Northampton Court it turns out Cabot Financial issued a new CCJ for £8573.44 after purchasing the Welcome Finance account in 2013 (an exact date couldn't be given). This was with the help of Weightmans Solicitors.

I spoke to Cabot yesterday explaining I already had a CCJ for this debt and was told I had to speak to a company called Marlin, apparently they are part of Cabot but the account is managed by them. Same account number: 2301385 as first CCJ.
I asked for more information, they claim the account didn't default until 17/11/10 and I made my last payment to it on 11/12/07 which is incorrect although I have no proof of this.
Marlin also couldn't tell me who they purchased the debt from but it wasn't Welcome Finance. So according to Cabot it would seem I defaulted on an account 20 months after the original CCJ was issued and 35 months after my last payment.
Marlin also refused to discuss particulars of the account and any challenge had to be submitted to Weightmans.

The court have emailed me particulars of claims for both CCJ's if they are help to anyone

Clearly some serious errors when it comes to dates.

My question as I keep reading conflicting information:
I'm aware a CCJ only stays on your credit file for 6 years but am I right in saying it is still infact enforceable until the debt is paid?
This meaning I now have 2 CCJ's for the same debt as the have the some account number?
As the debt has not been paid the original CCJ is still outstanding?
Enforcement on the original CCJ wouldn't result in a brand new one with different case numbers?
Should I claim for the new CCJ to be set aside?

Not holding my breath on Weightmans being to helpful.

Any advice whatsoever would be amazing.

Regards
Marc

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Hi and welcome aboard

Yes, it would be useful if you could post up the particulars of claim they've emailed you, this doesn't sound right at all. Did you not receive the court papers the second time round?

CCJs don't go statute barred but they do drop off the public record as well as your credit files after six years. There can only be ONE judgment per account, not two for the same account. :scared:

With regards to enforceability, yes, CCJs are still enforceable after they drop off, however, if they did not attempt to enforce in the first six years they may find it difficult to convince the court when they apply to enforce outside that period. Enforcement does not mean obtaining a new judgment, it means applying to the court for an attachment of earnings (to get your employer to deduct money from your pay, only possible if you are employed, not self-employed), a warrant of control (to send bailiffs to seize goods) or a charging order (only if you are a homeowner). In some cases judgments can also be enforced via a statutory demand (which can be followed by a bankruptcy petition :scared.

Weightmans must have been the solicitors who dealt with the case which is why everyone keeps referring you to them. Marlin and Cabot have merged into one.

Are you a homeowner?

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Firstly thank you for taking your time to read my situation, really appreciate it :thumb:

I'm glad someone has been able to clear that up for me! So many people were telling me different things I didn't know who to believe.

Below are the particular of claims for both CCJ's, I have confirmed the dates with Northampton Court myself as they were not listed on the email.

Judgement 1: 9XY08532
Date: 02/03/2009
Amount: £4894.54
Particulars of claim

THE CLAIMANT'S CLAIM IS FOR THE SUM OF 4707.54 BEING MONIES DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT UNDER A REGULATED CREDIT AGREEMENT MADE IN WRITING BETWEEN THE DEFENDANT AND CLAIMANT UNDER REFERENCE 2301385
THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO MAKE PAYMENT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT AND A DEFAULT NOTICE HAS BEEN SERVED UPON THE DEFENDANT PURSUANT TO SECTION 87(1) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974.
THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF 4707.54.

Judgement 2: B3FW12F3
Date: 19/06/2015
Amount: £8573.44
Particulars of claim

1. THE DEFENDANT ENTERED INTO A CREDIT AGREEMENT DESCRIBED BY THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR AS WELCOME FINANCE-LOAN AND HAVING ACCOUNT NUMBER 2301385 ('THE ACCOUNT').2. THE CLAIMANT, A UK LIMITED COMPANY WITH COMPANY NUMBER 3757424, IS THE ASSIGNEE AND LEGAL OWNER OF ALL RIGHTS PREVIOUSLY ENJOYED BY THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR IN RESPECT OF THE ACCOUNT. 3. THE DEFENDANT IS INDEBTED TO THE CLAIMANT IN RESPECT OF THE ACCOUNT IN THE SUM OF 8033.44 4. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SAID SUM OF 8033.44, PLUS COSTS.

Sorry if there are gaps all over the place, it was emailed over with gaps everywhere.

I didn't receive the papers 2nd time round, I moved out of my rented apartment on 1st of April 15 and into my partners parents house to save some money for a deposit. I do have a mail redirection in place but maybe this particular item can't be redirected. No not a homeowner.

Again many thanks.

Marc

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Anymore advice?
Thanks Marc

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

I know it's only been little over a week, still no update from Weightmans solicitors. Thinking of preparing a course of action, any advice whatsoever would be amazing.

Thanks
Marc

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Hi did you have only the one account with Welcome?

The mess that Welcome made by " rewriting" agreements has caused years of chaos.

When was the account (s) defaulted?
Could the debts have be statute barred before the claim (s)was issued?

nem

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Only had the one account with welcome. I don't have any paperwork but I know I only made 2 consecutive monthly payments from the date the account started so I would imagine the default being around the beginning couple of months of 2007. Not Nov 2010 as they claim as I already had a Ccj by then.

The first ccj was issued in 2009 so no not statute barred.

I'm hoping they can see the error and remove the latest CCJ.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Firstly thank you for taking your time to read my situation, really appreciate it :thumb:

I'm glad someone has been able to clear that up for me! So many people were telling me different things I didn't know who to believe.

Below are the particular of claims for both CCJ's, I have confirmed the dates with Northampton Court myself as they were not listed on the email.

Judgement 1: 9XY08532
Date: 02/03/2009
Amount: £4894.54
Particulars of claim

THE CLAIMANT'S CLAIM IS FOR THE SUM OF 4707.54 BEING MONIES DUE FROM THE DEFENDANT TO THE CLAIMANT UNDER A REGULATED CREDIT AGREEMENT MADE IN WRITING BETWEEN THE DEFENDANT AND CLAIMANT UNDER REFERENCE 2301385
THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO MAKE PAYMENT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THE AGREEMENT AND A DEFAULT NOTICE HAS BEEN SERVED UPON THE DEFENDANT PURSUANT TO SECTION 87(1) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974.
THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF 4707.54.

Judgement 2: B3FW12F3
Date: 19/06/2015
Amount: £8573.44
Particulars of claim

1. THE DEFENDANT ENTERED INTO A CREDIT AGREEMENT DESCRIBED BY THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR AS WELCOME FINANCE-LOAN AND HAVING ACCOUNT NUMBER 2301385 ('THE ACCOUNT').2. THE CLAIMANT, A UK LIMITED COMPANY WITH COMPANY NUMBER 3757424, IS THE ASSIGNEE AND LEGAL OWNER OF ALL RIGHTS PREVIOUSLY ENJOYED BY THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR IN RESPECT OF THE ACCOUNT. 3. THE DEFENDANT IS INDEBTED TO THE CLAIMANT IN RESPECT OF THE ACCOUNT IN THE SUM OF 8033.44 4. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SAID SUM OF 8033.44, PLUS COSTS.

Sorry if there are gaps all over the place, it was emailed over with gaps everywhere.

I didn't receive the papers 2nd time round, I moved out of my rented apartment on 1st of April 15 and into my partners parents house to save some money for a deposit. I do have a mail redirection in place but maybe this particular item can't be redirected. No not a homeowner.

Again many thanks.

Marc

The fact that the account numbers are identical in both claims indicates the judgment relates to the same account. That should be enough grounds to get the second judgment set aside, as there cannot be two judgments for the same account. Even if the debt wasn't statute barred at the time the claim was issued, you would apply on the grounds that you did not receive the claim and the judgment is for a debt where judgment already exists.

You will need to submit an N244 and pay a £155 fee, although in some cases fee remission may be possible. See here: http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...forms_category=

You will find more information about applying to set aside a judgment here:

• http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ants-in-Person
• http://legalbeagles.info/library/how...-judgment-ccj/
• http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...lication-notes

- - - Updated - - -

Only had the one account with welcome. I don't have any paperwork but I know I only made 2 consecutive monthly payments from the date the account started so I would imagine the default being around the beginning couple of months of 2007. Not Nov 2010 as they claim as I already had a Ccj by then.

The first ccj was issued in 2009 so no not statute barred.

I'm hoping they can see the error and remove the latest CCJ.

They won't just 'see the error' by themselves, however, you should write to them stating your intention to apply for set aside and asking them to consent to the judgment being set aside to avoid further costs and hassle for all concerned. :thumb:

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Thanks again for your advice :okay:

I spoke to Weightmans today to see if there were any updates as I've been away. They informed me that everything has been sent to their client (Cabot) and they are awaiting their response to their own investigation. I informed them I will be submitting an N244 to which they said it wouldn't be a bad idea but if they both have the same account numbers like they do then they will get it set aside for me.

Cant really afford for this to be drawn out so I will get the relevant forms sent off and await their outcome.

Again thanks for all your help!

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Thanks again for your advice :okay:

I spoke to Weightmans today to see if there were any updates as I've been away. They informed me that everything has been sent to their client (Cabot) and they are awaiting their response to their own investigation. I informed them I will be submitting an N244 to which they said it wouldn't be a bad idea but if they both have the same account numbers like they do then they will get it set aside for me.

Cant really afford for this to be drawn out so I will get the relevant forms sent off and await their outcome.

Again thanks for all your help!

Good idea be prepared!

nem

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

I've been away for a few weeks and still nothing to report from Weightmans.
I have been looking at the n244 form this evening and Im not going to lie, I'm a tad baffled :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

I'm not asking for someone to fill it out for me but its not something I want to mess up so if anyone has any pointers that would be brilliant! Things or points I should include or not etc.

Many thanks again :thumb::thumb:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

I've been away for a few weeks and still nothing to report from Weightmans.
I have been looking at the n244 form this evening and Im not going to lie, I'm a tad baffled :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

I'm not asking for someone to fill it out for me but its not something I want to mess up so if anyone has any pointers that would be brilliant! Things or points I should include or not etc.

Many thanks again :thumb::thumb:

The links I posted earlier (re-quoted below) give you full details about the N244 as well as examples of draft orders, defence and WS. You may want to use them as the basis to draft your own and then post them up here for review. :typing:

You will find more information about applying to set aside a judgment here:

• http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ants-in-Person
• http://legalbeagles.info/library/how...-judgment-ccj/
• http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...lication-notes

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

I haven't a clue how I missed them links, great info on there. I'll post it up for review over the next few days.

Many thanks
Marc

[Guest]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Gave the witness statement a go, its almost identical to the one you linked :laugh:

Let me know what you think.

Many thanks


IN THE COUNTY COURT
CLAIM NO: XXXXXXXX

BETWEEN:
Claimant
CABOT FINANCIAL LTD
C/O WEIGHTMANS LLP

- AND -

Defendant
xxxxxxx

WITNESS STATEMENT OF xxxxxxxxxx

I xxxxx of xxxxx being the Defendant in this case will state as follows;

1. I make this Witness Statement in support of the application for an order that the judgment in this case XXXXXXXX dated 19/06/15 be set aside.

2. CPR 13.3 states (1) in any other case, the court may set aside or vary a judgment entered under part 12 if –
(a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or
(b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reasons why –
(i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or
(ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.

3. I learnt of the existence of this claim on the 25/06/15 when I received an email from Experian alerting me of a change to my credit report. I had been checking my report regularly as there was a delay in my electoral role status being updated.

4. I did not receive a claim form as it was sent to my old address of xxxxxxx. I moved from this rented property on the 01/04/15 and a mail redirection was in place from 25/03/15.

5. On the 25/06/15 upon learning of the claims existence I contacted the Registry Trust who informed me the judgment was issued by Cabot. I did not know of any accounts held with Cabot so I contacted their office. I was told that the judgment was in relation to a Welcome Finance loan I took out on 10/10/06. It was then that I realised I already had a CCJ XXXXXXXX relating to the debt so I contacted Registry Trust again for some more information. They kindly emailed me the particulars of claim for both CCJ’s [EXHIBIT A] which both clearly state the same account number: XXXXXXX for both judgments: XXXXXXXX dated 02/03/09 and the most recent: XXXXXXXX dated 19/06/15.



I contacted Cabot once again on the 25/06/15 to see if they could give me some more information. They refused to discuss the account although they could tell me I defaulted on the original account on the 17/11/10. 20 months after the first judgment.
On the same day I called Weightmans to explain the situation, they requested that I email them the particulars of claim for both judgments and that they would forward all the relevant information onto Cabot who would then in turn investigate and get back to me. The particulars of claims were emailed on the 29/06/15 to Rebecca.wright@weightmans.com

6. I have telephoned on numerous occasions since the 29/06/15 for updates to which there haven’t been any. I have also made a telephone request to Weightmans inviting them to consent to set aside the judgment due to the reasons in paragraphs 4 and 5.

7. Weightmans did not respond to my request.

8. I therefore ask that the Court sets aside the judgment in this claim and allows 14 days for me to submit my defence.


Statement of Truth

I, xxxxxxx, the defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.



Signed:


Dated:

[Dookist]

Re: Advice needed! I have 2 CCJ's for same debt. Welcome Finance & Cabot

Hi… just wondering how this all panned out for you… I too have two CCJs for the same debt.. in my case the creditor made a 2nd application almost as soon as the first Judgement Order was given…but without appealing the original order. Went to court about it and the Judge told me not to worry as it doesn't double the debt, but even so, it does seem bizarre...